Now that AR15s have to be "featureless" in California, will there be much of a demand for them there anymore? I can't imagine anything that is advertised as featureless being all that appealing, but I'm just curious as to whether people who can only have it that way would still want one.
Will AR15 still be popular in California?
- Thread starter 12Pump
- Start date
- Status
fastbolt
Member
There's always going to be the enthusiast & hobbyist (or what is sometimes referred to as novelty) owners who will find some way around whatever impediments are imposed. Ditto the gun companies probably coming up with yet more configurations that won't violate the statutes, as written.
I bought my only AR back before the first of the state's (or federal) "assault weapons" laws ever passed. I only bought it because the state was talking about creating the law, so naturally, as a younger man I took umbrage and went out and bought one (which I dutifully registered when it came time to register it under the new law).
Now, I rather wish I'd put my money in something else, as I got more than enough opportunity to shoot and support AR's as a LE firearms instructor (teaching various patrol rifle classes over the years), and having attended 5 armorer classes for the AR system.
Now, aside from having to do so, that's the last rifle I have an interest in shooting for enjoyment. It became a skills-maintenance task, not something done for "fun".
Other folks certainly feel differently, though.
I wasn't at all surprised by the huge numbers of people buying off-list rifles and lowers in bullet button configuration, anxious to get in under the cutoff for the last of the sales here last month.
Personally, I'm still thinking about taking my AR out-of-state and selling it to licensed store front gun store, and using the money to buy some interesting, fun and practical rifles ... like another lever gun and maybe a new take-down Ruger .22LR semi rifle.
I got the whole AR thing out of my system, so to speak.
Don't get me wrong, as I don't personally agree with removing them from availability for private ownership, but when a state passes a law, unless it gets overturned, it's the law.
In one of my armorer classes we were once asked, by the instructor (a retired cop), about an informal "poll" (not requested by the instructor's company) of the long gun we might wish to own/possess in the event of total, long term social breakdown. He said he was just curious about how his LE students thought about such things. He went around the room asking for individual answers, and any explanations, if someone desired.
The significant majority of answers he received was "M4". I think I remember maybe 2 guys giving some variation of the SKS system. A couple 870's were mentioned.
When he got to me, I answered ".30-30" (no brand offered, just the caliber and obvious inference of it being a lever gun). When he asked why (and most all other eyes were one me), I basically replied that the cartridge was more than adequate for any relatively short-range (out to 125yds) needs I might perceive; the rifle didn't require box magazines; lever gun capacities were pretty reasonable for capacity & caliber; and the caliber was pretty ubiquitous across the country.
I also gave him the line attributed to the character (real life figure) of Command Sergeant Major Basil L. Plumley in the movie "We Were Soldiers", regarding how if I ever really needed an AR, there would probably be no shortage of them to be found ... (as I looked around the other eyes in the room
), considering all of them in both government and private hands.
I bought my only AR back before the first of the state's (or federal) "assault weapons" laws ever passed. I only bought it because the state was talking about creating the law, so naturally, as a younger man I took umbrage and went out and bought one (which I dutifully registered when it came time to register it under the new law).
Now, I rather wish I'd put my money in something else, as I got more than enough opportunity to shoot and support AR's as a LE firearms instructor (teaching various patrol rifle classes over the years), and having attended 5 armorer classes for the AR system.
Now, aside from having to do so, that's the last rifle I have an interest in shooting for enjoyment. It became a skills-maintenance task, not something done for "fun".
Other folks certainly feel differently, though.
I wasn't at all surprised by the huge numbers of people buying off-list rifles and lowers in bullet button configuration, anxious to get in under the cutoff for the last of the sales here last month.
Personally, I'm still thinking about taking my AR out-of-state and selling it to licensed store front gun store, and using the money to buy some interesting, fun and practical rifles ... like another lever gun and maybe a new take-down Ruger .22LR semi rifle.
I got the whole AR thing out of my system, so to speak.
Don't get me wrong, as I don't personally agree with removing them from availability for private ownership, but when a state passes a law, unless it gets overturned, it's the law.
In one of my armorer classes we were once asked, by the instructor (a retired cop), about an informal "poll" (not requested by the instructor's company) of the long gun we might wish to own/possess in the event of total, long term social breakdown. He said he was just curious about how his LE students thought about such things. He went around the room asking for individual answers, and any explanations, if someone desired.
The significant majority of answers he received was "M4". I think I remember maybe 2 guys giving some variation of the SKS system. A couple 870's were mentioned.
When he got to me, I answered ".30-30" (no brand offered, just the caliber and obvious inference of it being a lever gun). When he asked why (and most all other eyes were one me), I basically replied that the cartridge was more than adequate for any relatively short-range (out to 125yds) needs I might perceive; the rifle didn't require box magazines; lever gun capacities were pretty reasonable for capacity & caliber; and the caliber was pretty ubiquitous across the country.
I also gave him the line attributed to the character (real life figure) of Command Sergeant Major Basil L. Plumley in the movie "We Were Soldiers", regarding how if I ever really needed an AR, there would probably be no shortage of them to be found ... (as I looked around the other eyes in the room
), considering all of them in both government and private hands.
Dog Soldier
member
There are Gun Stores in Yuma that will store your Non-California compliant AR 15 for a rental fee. You can check it out and shoot it in the Free State of Arizona.
zb338
Member
Wow! Dog Soldier, that sure must take the fun out of gun ownership.
Zeke
Zeke
Hoping for national level protections as California at the state level is losing.
Even when something goes our way rather than adhere to it they wait and delay and then it gets changed, like the Peruta case.
If you win they ignore it, till they can get around to changing it, and if you lose they implement it.
The AR is a nice platform. The simplicity of the design, limited stressed parts, and the accuracy potential due to how the barrel connects to the firearm are all nice.
It is also light weight, the standard caliber is almost the cheapest centerfire rifle cartridge you can get, and you can replace any part with dozens of options.
Accurate and cheap to play with.
You have more caliber and aftermarket options than with most other platforms too.
And since AR pattern rifles are all anyone sees police or military with, it will continue to have the 'that's what the professionals are using' draw to it that impacts what the public purchases significantly.
Yes it has that militarized look compared to many other options, but a lot of those same options require more work to create an accurate rifle.
A wider ranger of optics will work, and they attach more rigid and secure to the rifle than many drilled and tapped as an afterthought options on the market which are attaching them with tiny shallow screws.
It is also simple enough that taking out all of the moving parts and putting them back in doesn't require referencing a manual or needing much in the way of tools. I know some fine firearms that have most of the other attributes, but open them up and you have something far more complex. Parts that all have to work together just right, which I have to troubleshoot if I have problems. I don't want a puzzle to put together that I have to hold just right while doing X and Y, and then spin around and do Z to fit inside the gun.
Some well made firearms I simply don't want to rely on because they are too complicated for what they do and that gives me less confidence in keeping them running just how I want them to be running. ARs are really basic.
Even when something goes our way rather than adhere to it they wait and delay and then it gets changed, like the Peruta case.
If you win they ignore it, till they can get around to changing it, and if you lose they implement it.
The AR is a nice platform. The simplicity of the design, limited stressed parts, and the accuracy potential due to how the barrel connects to the firearm are all nice.
It is also light weight, the standard caliber is almost the cheapest centerfire rifle cartridge you can get, and you can replace any part with dozens of options.
Accurate and cheap to play with.
You have more caliber and aftermarket options than with most other platforms too.
And since AR pattern rifles are all anyone sees police or military with, it will continue to have the 'that's what the professionals are using' draw to it that impacts what the public purchases significantly.
Yes it has that militarized look compared to many other options, but a lot of those same options require more work to create an accurate rifle.
A wider ranger of optics will work, and they attach more rigid and secure to the rifle than many drilled and tapped as an afterthought options on the market which are attaching them with tiny shallow screws.
It is also simple enough that taking out all of the moving parts and putting them back in doesn't require referencing a manual or needing much in the way of tools. I know some fine firearms that have most of the other attributes, but open them up and you have something far more complex. Parts that all have to work together just right, which I have to troubleshoot if I have problems. I don't want a puzzle to put together that I have to hold just right while doing X and Y, and then spin around and do Z to fit inside the gun.
Some well made firearms I simply don't want to rely on because they are too complicated for what they do and that gives me less confidence in keeping them running just how I want them to be running. ARs are really basic.
Last edited:
ScrapMetalSlug
Member
I think they will still remain popular, I also don't think this will be the last of the regulation changes, once the anti-gun types realize that gun makers found a way to still make a compliant semi auto based on the AR platform. I've never lived in CA, but I have lived in NY so I am not unfamiliar with draconian gun laws. Granted, I lived there before the SAFE act passed, but AR type rifles and SKS were very popular at the range.
However, the first thing I did when I left the state was unneuter the platform by replacing the pinned stock and put a normal A2 flash hidden on it. Minor things, but I did it because I finally could. Having the new rifles compliant for CA makes them look ridiculous and slightly less ergonomically friendly, but I imagine you could turn it into a normal AR if you ever decided to move to another state.
I agree with some of the other posters though, I think if I had to live in CA I'd just get a nice lever gun and practice a lot with it, rather than play their game and buy a ridiculous looking compliant AR that is only "legal" until the next round of anti-gun legislation. I hate to say it, but if it bothers you a lot moving is the best option.
However, the first thing I did when I left the state was unneuter the platform by replacing the pinned stock and put a normal A2 flash hidden on it. Minor things, but I did it because I finally could. Having the new rifles compliant for CA makes them look ridiculous and slightly less ergonomically friendly, but I imagine you could turn it into a normal AR if you ever decided to move to another state.
I agree with some of the other posters though, I think if I had to live in CA I'd just get a nice lever gun and practice a lot with it, rather than play their game and buy a ridiculous looking compliant AR that is only "legal" until the next round of anti-gun legislation. I hate to say it, but if it bothers you a lot moving is the best option.
gbran
Member
California just shot themselves in the foot. A featureless AR doesn't perform any differently and folks can have them with a detachable mag.
That looks like something put together by a plumber who had some extra piping laying around and decided to try building a rifle with it!This is just silly that this is considered featureless and legal. What a stupid law.
But another thing that's silly is that people in CA now have to spend at least another $110 to make their rifle look like that, even if they were much happier to leave it standard. http://www.thordsencustoms.com/frs-15-rifle-stock/frs-15-stock-kits/
Last edited:
Flechette
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2011
- Messages
- 481
Someone needs to file a suit against the State of California. Their magazine restriction law (which applies to 10+ magazines legally owned prior to the law) is clearly ex post facto.
Of course the lawsuit will be tied up for years in lower courts, "reinterpreted" by the 9th to be Constitutional because while you cannot own the magazine you can be the guardian of a chihuahua, and will have to go to the Supreme Court in 2027.
Of course the lawsuit will be tied up for years in lower courts, "reinterpreted" by the 9th to be Constitutional because while you cannot own the magazine you can be the guardian of a chihuahua, and will have to go to the Supreme Court in 2027.
Elkins45
Member
I think I would just go with one of the pump action conversions.
Corpral_Agarn
Member
I would suspect that the demand for AR's will continue to grow.
The laws we have here are beyond ridiculous, but people are catching on.
I love that there are companies out there beating these laws with innovations that other states laugh at (and correctly so!).
And I am glad that those companies are going to profit while thumbing their nose at the CA lawmakers.
And the rest of us just keep on shooting!
The laws we have here are beyond ridiculous, but people are catching on.
I love that there are companies out there beating these laws with innovations that other states laugh at (and correctly so!).
And I am glad that those companies are going to profit while thumbing their nose at the CA lawmakers.
And the rest of us just keep on shooting!
AR shooters in California will continue to find work arounds. Whether ARs grow in popularity is based on the assumption that ARs grew in popularity before.
BearBrimstone
Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2016
- Messages
- 303
The people that enjoy shooting them will likely still do so. If anything I would almost expect demand to go up due to the publicity.
DownInTheDark
Member
If I lived in California, Id give up shooting and take up knitting.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
