Winchester 70 Question

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skeezix

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I want a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06, and am looking at two options - an unfired ANIB 1980's production XTR Featherweight ($555), and a NIB current production Featherweight ($670). I don't hunt, so the gun is for occasional plinking and target shooting out to 200 yards.

I've done a little research on model 70s, and as best I can tell, the major differences between the two guns are:
  • Current production has "Controlled Round Feed"; the 1980's model is "Push Feed".
  • Current production has "free-floated" barrel; I don't know if the 1980's model has a free floated barrel.
  • Current production has "MOA Trigger System"; I don't know what trigger system the 1980's gun has.
My question for you "rifle guys": Are the 3 major differences above really important enough to justify the additional $115 cost of the current production model 70?

I already have a Bushnell Sportsman 3-9x40 scope. Will this scope withstand the recoil of the .30-06?

Thanks.

Lorin
 
Your scope will be fine for what you are doing. My Model 70's are all from the 70/80 time period and all push feed with the original M70 trigger which was the best standard production trigger of the 20th century. Anyone can adjust it with 2, 1/4" end wrenches and cautious trial and error, because it can be set too light, probably due to the fact that lawyers were in short supply when it was developed. As for floating, all of mine were free, but I don't know if it was done intentionally. I would go for the push feed, for what you are going to do. Personal Opinion Only.
 
I bought my model 70 new in '89. It is the push feed variety & has always worked fine. I believe either would probably be fine for what you are wanting. If it were me I'd probably go for the new one. A hundred dollars just wouldn't be a big enough difference to get me to go used. I agree that the bushnell scope should be fine.
 
A few thoughts.

If you really want a Model 70 "just because", a push-feed gun lacks most of what makes a Model 70 a Model 70. Without the Model 70 action, what is it? There are plenty of guns out there with a bolt handle and a barrel. While CRF does nothing that a plinker or target shooter needs, a M70 action with the extractor conspicuously missing looks like a male dog without balls: just plain wrong if you're used to seeing the non-neutered version.

I really like the Featherweight, but that's for hunting. It carries, points and balances really well. However, were I not intending to hunt with it, I'd be happy for the excuse to buy a Super Grade. At 8 lbs. plus scope and rings, it would be pleasant to shoot. If I didn't plan to bang it around in the field, it's sure a looker. The heavier barrel should be good for more shots at a time. I can't really argue with a Featherweight, though, as it is a fine rifle.

As far as the trigger, I'd get the new one. I have a new Model 70, and the trigger on it is excellent. I have not even been tempted to adjust it. I'd venture that it's the best standard production trigger of the 21st century, without any cautious trial and error. Take a snap-cap to the store and see what you like. Those who haven't tried the new trigger, underestimate it. (In my book, "feels perfect!" trumps "easy to dick around with!" YMMV)

The new action is extremely smooth. I wiped mine to get the preservative off of it, put in a few drops of Militec where it moves, and that thing just feels amazing.

Why do you have to choose between these two specific rifles? Gift certificate? Someone got a gun to your head?:)
 
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The older 70 is push feed and contrary to myth, there is nothing wrong with it. ALso, the trigger is not an "MOA" but is one of the best and most easily adjusted triggers around. Takes about three minutes and is fully adjustable in overtravel and pull weight. One of the most crisp factory triggers I've ever used. And the older one is not free-floated, unless someone did it after they bought it. The USRAC 70s were, as far as I know, never free-floated. That said, I free-floated my 7mm and even without the action bedded it knocked my groups down with cheap factory ammo. I had read the synthetic 70s were better if fully bedded, but mine must be the exception.

The USRAC 70s are perfectly fine rifles. However, as the other poster said, for only $100 more, though, I'd spring for an FN model 70.
 
THEY WERE BAD, but no statistical data or even personal anecdotal info to back it up!!!
Click to expand...

He's seen and worked on a lot of them, AFAIK, MMCSRET.

A CRF Model 70 is the best production implementation of the basic Mauser design to a sporting rifle. A PF Model 70, OTOH, is an also-ran, not necessarily bad, but designed to be cheap, not to be the best of anything. If one is looking for a production push-feed American sporter with some je ne sais quoi, try a different W.
 
I agree with Armed Bear. Get the new one. I have three new ones in the Featherweight; .243, .270 and .30-06. all with great triggers, great wood, super smooth actions and very accurate. I close friend has several model 70s from the '40s and '60s. He said once you get past the nostalgia factor, the new ones are better made than his. I would certainly agree that a push-feed Model 70 is no model 70 at all. They only went to push-feed, press checkering, etc. to compete with the Remington M700 because they were getting their butts kicked. The 700 was easier and cheaper to produce. Winchester was losing money on their rifles and had to make sweeping changes in 1964, which, unfortunately, they did. Fortunately for us, FN has brought them back from the grave and then some!

I got my .270 FW NIB at Cabela's for $615! The other two cost me $735 each at my local gun store, but they were the only ones who had .243 and .30-06 in stock this past November.
 
HEAR SAY!!!!!!!HEAR SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! HEAR SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THEY WERE BAD, but no statistical data or even personal anecdotal info to back it up!!!
Click to expand...

Where were you in the 80's and 90's when all of us were rigging these things just so the customer could shoot it, from uneven bolt lugs(I loved doing those:banghead:) to bad crowns to, let's not forget 1 out of every 5 you sold either had the scope mount holes drilled and 1 or 2 NOT tapped, or there was NO hole at all, or the best...the holes were waaaay off the centerline of the bore.

What's this statistical data stuff...ask around, you'll find plenty of 'data'!:p:D
 
I was buying, trading and using them with no problems and still have 2 unaltered that are the equal of any of the 60 or so other brands and types that I still have, load for, and use. My 1973 has been rebarreled to 338-06, my 1979 Featherweight 308 is as good as I could ever want, my 1993 in 270 has never hicupped. I've never considered myself exceptional in any way, except possibly stupider than most, sometimes! Maybe I need to reevaluate and allow that my ability to pick the good ones out of all the bad is better than most.
 
I almost bought a Remchester Featherweight in the late 1980's, but decided to go Interarms Mark X mauser instead. Those FN M70 Winchester's are tempting me again.
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the older Winchesters, but I would buy the newer gun in a heartbeat in this case. The older gun is over priced by at least $100 and the newer gun is about $100 less than I have seen them sell for.

Both of those rifles are meant as hunting rifles, not target rifles. While both are good, something else may be better for you.
 
I have a newer version of the controlled feed variety in .300 Win mag that I bought used, lightened the trigger, free floated it, and last but not least removed the copper fouling. I mounted a Nitrex http://www.nitrexoptics.com/products/riflescopes/tr1/3_9_42.aspx scope on it and have been doing a slow break-in on the barrel (deer season got in the way), it is taking shape and preforming well with off the shelf 180 grain core-lokt ammo.
I have both push feed and control feed rifles and they both work. If it were me I'd pay the extra money to get the feature that made the model 70 so famous.
 
Current production it is!

Thanks, guys, for your opinions and guidance.

Sounds like the way to go is to spend the extra $100 and get the current production gun.

Lorin
 
Mike, the more I read your rifle threads the more I respect your opinion.

Get the newest addition to the model 70 line. It's well worth the extra cash. In my opinion the FN factory is putting out one of the best hunting rifles available on the market today.
 
The FN tactical rifles come with heavy barrels. Same rifle as the Winchester, just a different name.
 
Skeezix,

If you plan to use this rifle primarily for plinking/target shooting rather than hunting, you would be better off with the M70 Sporter rather than the Featherweight. The Featherweight is a lighter weight hunting rifle designed to be carried a lot and shot a little. Just a thought.
 
With what you have posted, I would say spring for the newer production. Not that I knock the older model 70's as I have one from 1972 in .30-06. This was around the time (if not the specific year) that Winchester was trying to win back folks who had given up on the model 70 with a better fit and finish. Mine is pushfeed, but has a great action, very accurate and a beautifully marbled stock.
I have handled the newer ones and have been very tempted to get one myself. I think they might just be the best modern production rifle going all things considered (of course in my opinion). Oh, and this coming from someone who actually prefers Remington.
 
Brings up a question. How does the "lock time" of the newer M70 compare with the original and the push feed model. I know it is generally accepted that lock time on mauser style actions is slow enough that more modern designs are preferred for extreme accuracy, hence the Remington actions used extensively. Anyone have any definitive data on that?
 
According to 4v50, mod here, we're looking at 3.0 vs. 3.8 milliseconds for the 700 vs. the Pre-64. It never was the issue it was made out to be.

The 03A3 has a lock time in the 6-7 millisecond range. That's a much bigger difference.

Now, whether the new Model 70 has shaved off a few tenths of a millisecond, I don't know. But I don't really care about that, in a hunting rifle.

The 700 action is quite suited to a range gun.
 
Yeah...boy, it makes you wonder how these guys of past managed to plop those big ol' blunt, wind catching slugs on target well past 1000y.
I mean they were using rifles that measured lock time(hammer fall!) in the seconds, not milliseconds!
 
Yeah, even the Sharps BP cartridge rifles, arguably the earliest modern rifles, and certainly the first cartridge rifles used for serious long-range shooting, have enormous side hammers. You squeeze the trigger, and you wait for the thing to go off. It's not a flintlock, but it's sure above 7 milliseconds.:)
 
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