Winchester Model 70 vs. Remington 700

[dieselchief]

it is a snow day today. lol. anyway that was remingtons advertising line a few years ago. in reality mauser bolt lugs do not fail and forged receivers are more likely to stretch than a threaded piece of tube. if you are relying on a little lip of steel to seal the chamber and hold the action to the barrel you might be in trouble.
in another line of thinking a Remington bolt is not one piece forged unit. and the handle does separate however rarely.

 

[Slamfire]

I am going to say any accuracy difference between the M70 and M700 is unproven. Bud of mine shot this with a M70:



and this:



The M70 was a popular Across the Course rifle for several reasons.



It has a slick and smooth action. It was very reliable, about the only thing that wore out was the extractor on the push feed versions and the cocking piece nose. If you feed the M70 from the magazine, the claw extractor will last, maybe forever. If you drop a round in the chamber and make it snap over the rim, it will break in time. Just as what will happen to the Ruger claw extractor, especially the early 70's Rugers which the claw extractor always snapped over the cartridge rim. Just search the web, you will find a lot of Ruger M77 owners, guys with the 70s versions, looking for a replacement extractor because their extractor broke. .



Don't doubt for a second that extractors and cocking piece noses dot break on M700 either.The M700 was also common on the firing line as an across the course rifle, its most common failure was its extractor. The push feed Winchester, its extractor will wear out, cases will fall off in the loading port during extraction. Winchester M70 push feed extractors are easy to replace, but finding which extractor blade to use is difficult because there are a bunch of different Winchester extractor blades.

The M70 was very reliable on feed and extraction and has a very easy bolt life. In terms of accuracy, you won't see a difference in a hand held rifle.

Here are some fuzzy pictures of one of the last Win 70 actions made at Hartford:





Integral magazine box



detachable magazine box



Winchester widened the left side of the cocking piece shroud sometime in the USAR period, making it a gas block. Gas traveling down the left side of the action rail is blocked by this shroud. Pre 64's and most push feeds don't have this. Roy Dunlop used to make this modification on customer's M70's, it should have been there from the beginning.






As towards action strength and safety. If your number one desire is to blow up your rifle and yourself, the M70 does not have the "three rings of steel" that the Rem M700 has.The M70 has a cone breech, part of the cartridge head sticks out, nothing surrounding the case head, it is just sticking out to the bolt head.


This is not bad, as long as you are not trying to blow up your rifle. If you do have a gas release in a M70, more gas will come out of the action than a M700 because the shrouded bolt head of the M700, goes into the back of the barrel, and that shroud will expand under very high pressure, preventing gas release. It ruins the bolt, but it saves your face. I have always wondered just what action this cartridge was fired in:




Pictures from: Building a custom Remington 700 hunting rifle,
https://rifleshooter.com/2015/10/ho...r-truing-and-external-bolt-stop-installation/







This breeching also makes the M700 a little more dirt sensitive, but if you want to blow your gun up, the M700 bolt face and barrel hood will make it much more difficult, and will protect you better.

I prefer the M70, it is and was a classic action, and when I could buy a rifle in the caliber I wanted, I preferred to have that rifle as a M70 (or a M98!). There is nothing wrong with the M700, it is a very safe and strong action, and I have several of them.

 

[SwampWolf]

At the risk of being asked to leave the room, though I have owned and used bolt-action centerfire rifles from Remington, Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Browning and Howa; if I could only have one, I'd pick a Ruger Model 77 over any and all of them every day of the year. That said, I like them all and, in one way or another, each might have certain advantages and/or disadvantages that would make a difference to any one individual shooter/hunter. It's great that we have choices in this great country of ours.

 

[Corn-Picker]

At the risk of being asked to leave the room, though I have owned and used bolt-action centerfire rifles from Remington, Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Browning and Howa; if I could only have one, I'd pick a Ruger Model 77 over any and all of them every day of the year. That said, I like them all and, in one way or another, each might have certain advantages and/or disadvantages that would make a difference to any one individual shooter/hunter. It's great that we have choices in this great country of ours.

I wish more manufacturers would machine their scope bases directly into the receiver as Ruger does, I like that there’s one less thing to come loose (and less screws to strip).

 

[d2wing]

To me accuracy is the top concern, and used to prefer Remingtons for that reason. All of mine have been very accurate. That the 700 is the superior design has been proven every year for decades in competition. The winning rifles are some form of Remington or Remington 700 based custom. Now I am a Tikka fan but miss my Remingtons. Actually one of the most accurate rifles I ever shot was a 788 in .243.

 

[Gordon]

I collect pre 64 Model 70s, yes the 90s Hartford Classics can be very good too, I like the stainless ones. Same on Remington 700s they can be very nice too. Chet Brown and others were Wizards on 600 and 700 Remington hunting rifles and they an be slicked up to feed upside down and I think make up a more accurrate rifle than a Model 70 when either are blue printed Chet Brown agreed, but a Model 70 Classic action slicks up real good too. They are both good with out of box quality going to Model 70 Classic action. Out of box accuracy I'd bet on a Remington

 

[Nature Boy]

I have an FN SPR (FNchester) that was pretty damn accurate right out of the box and by comparison with the Remington 700s I’ve seen, better quality too

 

[cdb1]

I agree with Vern, if I wanted to buy a new rifle I would look to the Montana Rifle Company. Their standard rifle costs about $1.500. If I wanted a less expensive rifle I would buy a pre 64 Model 70. A good quality pre 64 Model 70 30-06 can still be purchased for about $750. When I buy a used rifle it's all about the condition of the metal because a cheap replacement stock can easily be purchased on eBay.

I’m probably in the minority but I’ll take a current production M70
over a pre-64.

 

[Offfhand]

While the accuracy of the Remington 700 is well know let's not overlook the fact that they can be quite elegant as well. Attached are photos of a couple of them from Remington's Custom Shop. On top is a .280 Rem, bottom is a .22/250 Rem.

 

[joed]

While the accuracy of the Remington 700 is well know let's not overlook the fact that they can also be quite elegant as well. Attached are photos of a couple of them from Remington's Custom Shop. On top is a .280 Rem, bottom is a .22/250 Rem.

I agree. My first rifle was a 700 Varmint Special in .25-06 purchased new in 1978. My second rifle was a model 70 which to me did not hold a candle to the Remington in looks.

I'm a fan of both the 700 and 70 and have an equal number of each. Never met one of them that I didn't like.

 

[Nature Boy]

I'd love to spend some time wandering around inside @Offfhand 's gun room. Perhaps gun rooms would be more accurate considering the samples he posts

 

[OldFashioned]

At the risk of being asked to leave the room, though I have owned and used bolt-action centerfire rifles from Remington, Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Browning and Howa; if I could only have one, I'd pick a Ruger Model 77 over any and all of them every day of the year. That said, I like them all and, in one way or another, each might have certain advantages and/or disadvantages that would make a difference to any one individual shooter/hunter. It's great that we have choices in this great country of ours.

I have a win model 70 with a thumbhole stock in 7mm wsm. Its pretty accurate but cartridges are nearly impossible to find around anymore. I like it though... That said I also have a soft spot for the m77

 

[Offfhand]

700 actions are made from a round tube with a washer slid on over the barrel threads for a recoil lug. The 70 receiver is machined from a block of steel with the recoil lug all from the same piece.

Actually, the Remington 700 receiver is not made from a round tube, but machined from solid bar stock.

 

[Slamfire]

While the accuracy of the Remington 700 is well know let's not overlook the fact that they can be quite elegant as well. Attached are photos of a couple of them from Remington's Custom Shop. On top is a .280 Rem, bottom is a .22/250 Rem.View attachment 778948 View attachment 778949

Pretty!. I can't own something with that nice of wood because it would get scratched and I would have ruined a work of art

 

[MarshallDodge]

I am a Remington guy only because that is the first rifle that was sold to me by the guy at the gun counter who was a Remington fan, 20ish years ago. It is a 700VS in 223 and is one of the most accurate factory rifles I have ever shot. At the time, Winchester's varmint rifle line was pretty vague and so that was a factor in my decision.

Since then I have shot every kind of bolt action imaginable and they all have gone bang just fine. I really like my Tikka and with the quality of Remington drooping, I don't recommend them any longer. Bergera would now get my vote as they shoot well and are a Remington pattern action with improvements so you get all the aftermarket support with improvements and quality.

 

[Varminterror]

A gunsmith I worked for in the late 1990’s used to say this:

A lot of records were set with Winchester 70’s.

A lot of records were broken with Remington 700’s.

My first 70 was a pre-64 .270win. My first 700 was a Sendero. My first deer rifle was a Ruger 77 Mark II... the most recent bolt action rifles I have purchased for myself have been custom actions... so I suppose my answer is really - neither... and while I appreciate the history of both as much as the next guy, neither are really the same company, nor the same quality of rifle they once were when their reputations were earned...

 

[cdb1]

The quality of current manufacture M70’s is as good or better than it’s ever been IMO.

 

[Nature Boy]

Is this not the classic Ford vs. Chevy discussion?

 

[Robert]

The quality of current manufacture M70’s is as good or better than it’s ever been IMO.

I would agree with this statement. I love my M70, bordering on fanboyism, but I will always have an * next to mine. When I bought it the bedding was crap and the crown need cleaning up. I didn't have time, up coming hunt, to deal with Winchester so I had a smith bed the action and clean up the crown. Now my 375H&H is without a doubt the most accurate rifle I own. Well, my AR is pretty stinking accurate too.

Knowing what I know now I'd still buy Winchester over Remington any day of the week. If and when I clone my 375 with a 30-06 I will buy a Winchester.

 

[Slamfire]

I love my M70, bordering on fanboyism, but I will always have an * next to mine. When I bought it the bedding was crap and the crown need cleaning up. I didn't have time, up coming hunt, to deal with Winchester so I had a smith bed the action

Every factory centerfire bolt rifle, Ruger, Winchester, Remington, Sako, every one their bedding was so bad the accuracy difference before bedding and after was quite pronounced. Well, I have not bedded my M70 PBR, the accuracy is acceptable in the Hogue rubber stock.






All of the rifles I bedded, they shot better. I am going to say that if you buy a factory sporting rifle and expect the best accuracy, it is a given that you will have to bed it. I am not talking about match rifles. My M1a Supermatch rifles came from the factory bedded and shot outstandingly,every barrel change, the bedding was refreshed. This is a great rifle.



Every Anschutz match 22lr I have shot, or seen on the firing line, rifle shoots match winning groups as they came from the factory.

 

[SSN Vet]

I've heard some say that the brandy new FN built model 70s are the best ever made.

I have not heard the same glowing reviews of new production Remington, which just announced that it's heading into bankruptcy on Monday.

 

[SwampWolf]

Attached are photos of a couple of them from Remington's Custom Shop.

Beautiful rifles, Offfhand.

 

[Nature Boy]

Beautiful rifles, Offfhand.

I have a feeling thats just the tip of the iceberg

 

[Gordon]

My favorite Remington .308 hunting rifle top, which has long had a Ziess 3-9 HD scope since picture was made by Harry Lawson in the 70s before I met Chet Brown.
The lower Pre 64 Winchester Westerner has a rare and superb factory Stainless steel barrel and I went to a class in Az about 10 years ago where I was taught how to full length pressure glass bed pre 64 Win 70s specifically and slim down the factory stock and oil finish ist. The results are a less than MOA at 200 yard rifle , which both guns can do , the .264 does it to 600 yards. Both have glassy actions and both recoil about the same . The .308 weighs 7 pounds, the .264 weighs 8 pound 3 .oz and has 26" barrel.

 

[Offfhand]

Mr. Gordon hits the bullseye (again) with his photo and description of a Pre-64 Model 70 in .264 Win Mag caliber. I was a barefoot farm boy when Winchester introduced the .264 and was enchanted by its earth-leveling trajectory. Someday I'll own one, I pledged myself, along with about six dozen similar pledges. As time passed, popularity of the .264 never added up to it potential, mainly I expect because of rumors about it being a "barrel burner" and other crimes. But here of late the .264 seems to be making a comeback, along with blossoming popularity of other 6.5 cartridges, and hotshots like Weatherby's 6.5-300 Mag, and 26 Nosler which make the .264 tame by comparison. Anyway, living up to my boyhood pledge, I eventually had a Pre-64 .264 restocked and slicked up by ace custom gunmaker Al Biesen, as shown in attached photos. Accuracy averages about 1-1/4" for 5 shots at 100 yards, which is nowhere near as good as Mr. Gordon's custom work. Perhaps I should have him tune it up...