Why is the Winchester Model 70 called the rifleman's rifle?

[P.B.Walsh]

Why is the Winchester Model 70 called the rifleman's rifle? Why is it no a Remington 700, Savage 110, or the Springfield 1903?

I was just pondering, why? Is there any great significance of the Win 70, over all of the others?

If this is a dumb question sorry, mabey I was born to late to know (10/19/93).

Thank you,
P.B.Walsh

 

[H2O MAN]

I thought the M1A and M14 was the "Rifleman's rifle".

You must be talking about the TV show...





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[.45Guy]

Why did the .401 WSL hit like the hammer of Thor? Why are Fords built Ford tough? It's all marketing. It didn't hurt that it was the first real *edit to add successful* US commercial bolt action either.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

I did not know that it was the 1st commercial US rifle.

 

[Horsemany]

Introduced in 1936 the M70 was the successor to the Win. model 54. Before this time high power sporting rifles were sporterized military guns. Sporterized 1903 springfields and mausers were common. The model 70's sales pitch was "don't use those modified military guns". They offered a well designed sporting rifle that used the most desireable features, refined them, and built them by hand. Parts were all milled from bar stock and fit and finished by hand. Labor was cheap and they basically built them like a custom would be built today.

IMO nearly all the common designs that followed the Pre 64 were done for ease of manufacture and cost. There are many who believe the further you get from the Mauser 98 the worse the gun.

And remember those military guns the Pre 64 M70 was designed from? Military arms of that time determined the power of your army and country. All their time, money, and design went into creating what they thought was the ultimate weapon with little regard for cost of manufacture. Wars were still won by the weapon in the troops hands. No jets, bombers or unmanned drones were being used at the time of their design. The model 70 is a refined version of the best weapon Germany could engineer prior to WWII.

 

[loadedround]

Winchester advertising started that slogan when the Model 70 first came out a few years after WWll and it caught on. The pre 64 Winchester rifles were some of the finest made, accurate bolt action rifles ever made. The Model 70 rifle preceeded the Remington 700 and the Savage 110 by many years and was the top selling bolt rifle.. If any doubt of their popularity, check the prices that the Pre 64 Model 70's are selling for now. In my opinion, when Winchester cheapened these rifles in 1964, things sort of changed around and the Remington 700 became more popular in my opinion. I own a Featherweight Model 70 in 30-06 and the only place it will ever go is to my older son.

 

[.45Guy]

*successful* The Remington Keene, Blake, etc. never really caught on. After WWI when the bolt came in vogue, the Model 70 was there, and it's pre 1936 precursor the 54.

 

[Pony Express]

i thought the springfield 03 was the riflemans rifle?

 

[Acera]

I though all on the American Rifleman TV shows introduction were that, LOL.

 

[Maia007]

Well summarized Horsemany.

 

[MMCSRET]

Remington brought out a bolt gun in competition with the Winchester 54 prior to the change over to the Model 70. It was labeled as the Remington Model 30 with several sub-models such as 30-s. It was a commercialized 1917 Enfield and was a very good gun, but like its sporterized military counter parts it was heavy and not as nice looking as the Winchester 54 and 70. It is a very good rifle and was cheaper than the Winchesters. There is one in my family and it has taken a lot of game from jack rabbits to mountain goats and sheep and many deer, elk and antelope and has never had a scope on it. Just not as pretty as the Winchesters.

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Ok, so what is the difference in pre-64's and others?

 

[.45Guy]

A slew of manufacturing shortcuts to make it more economical to produce. The most noticeable being the omission of the mauser claw extractor.

 

[Dimis]

how ironic that winchester made the model 70 to be a sporting rifle so that civilians didnt have to use modified military arms to hunt with and in turn made one of the most successful sniping rifles (USMC Scout Sniper Carlos Hathcock used this during Viet Nam)

its like art imitating life imitating art or something like that

 

[P.B.Walsh]

Good point.

 

[jmr40]

Prior to 1964 the Model 70 was the gold standard. The rifle all others were judged against. I'm not sure who first used the phrase "Riflemans Rifle" to describe the model 70, but in it's day it was true.

Remington was making a budget rifle that was much less refined, but proving to be just as accurate and dependable. Winchesters were more expensive to produce and Winchester was losing sales. They had to either raise prices to maintain quality, or cut corners to be competative with Remington. They chose to cut corners at just about the same time Remington decided to make a more refined rifle. Remington took the lead and the rest is history.

Winchesters in the late 60's through most of the 70's were crap. They turned things around for a few years starting in the 80's, but by 2002 or so quality dropped tremendously until they closed the doors in 2006.

I still think the basic design of the rifle is the best for a rifle and I really like the look and feel of the Featherweight rifles. I hope FN can produce a quality rifle and Winchester makes a comeback.

 

[Runningman]

IMO nearly all the common designs that followed the Pre 64 were done for ease of manufacture and cost.

Some post 64 changes were also done for safety in mind to the shooter. The pre 64 Winchester has one of the worst gas handling systems designed in the event of a case rupture of any modern high powdered bolt action rifle.

 

[Runningman]

Winchesters in the late 60's through most of the 70's were crap. They turned things around for a few years starting in the 80's, but by 2002 or so quality dropped tremendously until they closed the doors in 2006.

I mostly agree with you. But I think I would narrow it down some. The Model 70 made around the mid 90s on new machinery that had CRF were some of the best and safest Model 70s made IMO. Most of these shoot real well with no function problems.

 

[.45Guy]

The Model 70 made around the mid 90s on new machinery that had CRF were some of the best and safest Model 70s made IMO.

The model 70 Ranger I picked up at the Jacksonville, NC gun show in 2000 was definately a sweet shooter. About as pretty as a road killed possum, but a sweet shooter none the less.

 

[Horsemany]

Some post 64 changes were also done for safety in mind to the shooter. The pre 64 Winchester has one of the worst gas handling systems designed in the event of a case rupture of any modern high powdered bolt action rifle.

The pre 64 was not a perfect design.....just the closest thing. There are certainly thousands of pre 64's that haven't blinded anybody yet after decades of use but the possibility is there. Pre 64's have a vent hole in the front receiver ring to bleed off gas like any other bolt action. They lack a flanged bolt shroud to stop any remaining gas from traveling down the raceway.

The 90's production CRF guns are good too.

 

[9mmepiphany]

as a child the Winchester 70 was the definative bolt action rifle, but the Remington 700 was becoming very popular because it was a better buy.

now the Remington 700 is what many folks think of as the default bolt action, but the Savage is both a more accurate and more gun for the money

there's always a lot of inertia in the passing of the torch

 

[jpwilly]

^^ Although those new Winchester Mod 70's (built by FN I think) are looking very nice!

 

[52grain]

What do people think of the new model 70s? I've shouldered them in the store, they look nice, but I've not shot one and do not know any one that has.

 

[dubbleA]

Why are the Dallas Cowboys called and considered "America's team"? Just a name that took off with the media.
Personally I didnt vote and dont think they are "America's team " nor is the Win M70 the "rifleman's rifle".

Your milage will vary..............

 

[Slamfire]

Pre 64's have a vent hole in the front receiver ring to bleed off gas like any other bolt action. They lack a flanged bolt shroud to stop any remaining gas from traveling down the raceway.

The FN versions of the M70 have a flanged bolt shroud. I consider these modern actions better built than pre 64's. I also have a "pre war" pre 64 to compare.