Winchester Ranger Police Only

[Aaryq]

Howdy, folks.
Last trip to the gun store, a box of 9mm 147gr and 124gr +P+ Ranger JHP's followed me home. The 124gr +P+ says law enforcement use only on the box but I didn't notice that part until I left. When we were paying for it, 2 cops were at the counter and neither they nor the clerk said anything. Would it be adviseable not to use it for self defense in case a lawyer will use it to paint a terrible portrait of me? Is this LEO Only junk just hype to make it fly off of the shelves? I'm at a loss here.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Doesn't mean a thing. Just sales hype. If it bothers you, get a plastic ammo box for $2.00, put the rounds in it, burn the cardboard box and say you picked up generic ammo at a gunshow or milsurp store.

 

[texfed]

Most of the time Winchester won't sell the LEO stuff to a sporting gun dealer, but it really doesn't mater!
Years ago we used, under contract, LEO only marked Winchester NATO ball, mainly for our subguns . Now, this stuff was too hot for the pistols; we found out that some of our pistols were getting a little loose when constantly shot with this stuff in training.
But that was a few years back, we went to 'practice with the issue ammo' rule and now use Winchester silver tip all the time on everything with narry a problem.
But I digress, I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes , the LEO making may be there to keep the ammo out of certain types of weapons, but it is not illegal for anyone to own or purchase in the civilian sector.

 

[NonConformist]

I dont know what thats all about

Its perfectly legal to have or use unless your state says differently.

I just bought a bunch of the LE packed(50 rounds/box) Fed. HST ammo online

 

[shooting4life]

I just bought a bunch of the LE packed(50 rounds/box) Fed. HST ammo online

I buy and use the same stuff, you can practice a lot more when you are not paying for marketing

 

[mgregg85]

The only state where you would have to be concerned is NJ where hollowpoints seem to be a no no.

Silly NJ, they must like the idea of overpenetration.

 

[Steve C]

Winchester marks the boxes for Law Enforcement contracts so they can distinguish it from ammo for commercial sales. There's no legal reason a non LEO can't have it.

It makes sense that Winchester or any other manufacturer that loads ammo to law enforcement specifications IE. +P+, etc. does not want to sell this for general public consumption. Police departments use new and well maintained firearms while Joe public's firearms are an assembly of old to new, well to poorly maintained firearms. There are too many unknowledgeable or just plain stupid individuals that would try to run +P+ ammo through firearms that are unsafe to handle such ammo along with an army of personal liability lawyers that will sue because Joe stupid wasn't protected from himself.

 

[rondog]

That's what's known as a "legal disclaimer". The ammo is perfectly legal to own, that wording is just on there to protect the manufacturer from any possible lawsuits. Just lawyer-speak to cover their corporate asses. If some citizen shoots a BG with it, the BG can't sue Winnie because "the box is clearly marked for LE use only!".

 

[Turk]

It’s not a legal thing but a corporate decision. Looks to me it boils down to $$ for the companies. When you buy there self-defense loads most are 20 round boxes and I believe they are the same as the LEO rounds but more expensive. I buy law enforcement ammo from http://ammunitiontogo.com/ good pricing and service and they explain the whole thing about the LEO ammo.

Turk

 

[rondog]

Legal and $$$ are the same thing. It's all about covering the corporate ass and keeping the dollars in the right pockets.

That's why Black Talons are NOT illegal to own, Winchester pulled them voluntarily to prevent lawsuits and negative publicity from them being banned. Yet guess what the SXT's very closely resemble? I have two magazines full of the SXT's on me all the time.

 

[Zesty]

Actually the cilvilian SXT sold in the black boxes is not the same as the LEO-only Ranger's. I bought a couple hunder dollars worth before I tested them and realized the are entirely different.

 

[Z71]

I would imagine that Winchester really doesn't want some dufus buying a box of 9mm +P+ and burning it in their Bryco nine!!

 

[Treo]

but it is not illegal for anyone to own or purchase in the civilian sector.

Given that cops are civilians, that would be a good thing

 

[gripper]

To the poster who mentioned that "Average Joes" don't maintain their gear; I would say that is an overgeneralization.
Like someone else said; cops ARE civilians.Civilians in a public trust position; but civilians nonetheless.And Before we go off on the " all LEOSare Saints/Sinners" thing;I am not trying to brtoad brush them.
But we SHOULD remember that it was an Oregon PD that had a rash of .40 Glock kabooms....the cause? The department armorer got a great deal on CAST LEAD reloads for dept. practice...and did NOT counsel officers to swap out the original polygonal rifled barrels.
Me?My old drill seargent might find a speck here and there;but I doubt THAT armorer could

 

[Guns and more]

I heard a great argument for court if you have used "police only" ammo in SD.

"If the police have done a great deal of research and decided that the use of this ammo was the best product to protect me and my family, wouldn't it make sense that I use the same ammunition to protect me and my family?"

 

[Erik]

*gasp*

You non-LEO folks possess those!

The horror.

Box them up and mail them to me anonymously and I promise not to dust for prints or back track in any way.

 

[Erik]

On an unrelated note, but seeing how it came up, as it often does on firearms forums:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian

Main Entry:
ci·vil·ian
Pronunciation:
\sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
Function:
noun
Date:
14th century
1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1
— civilian adjective

 

[Treo]

Doesn't change the fact that police are civil authorities.

And I'm quite sure I could find an online dictionary that doesn't include police

 

[Erik]

I'm sure that you could find a dictionary somewhere defining it differently. So? To most folks in the States, Meriam-Webster IS the English language. It is practically synonymous with "dictionary." And like it or not, that institution defines civilian the way that they do.

As a side, it is likely because of ex-DOD personnel, who in leaving the Service have historically been welcomed into the emergency responders career fields. They brought the term, its eventual uniform use, and eventually its acceptance and the change in the dictionary reflecting it.

But its a threat drift so I'll leave it at that.

 

[DeadHorrorFan]

Actually the cilvilian SXT sold in the black boxes is not the same as the LEO-only Ranger's. I bought a couple hunder dollars worth before I tested them and realized the are entirely different.

Well...HOW are they entirely different?

 

[Zesty]

^The bullets themselves for sure. The Ranger-T's look very nasty with the petals/talons, the SXT failed to expand most the time, and when it did I got a lot of weight loss and the expansion wasn't anything to write home about. I have tested it and would never buy it again. The actual Rangers are quality ammo though.

 

[Heartless_Conservative]

Aren't sxt's mass market ammo? Like how mass market paperbacks are printed on crap paper with half-assed typesetting. It's for people who don't want to use fmj, but don't want to pay for 'premium' hollowpoint ammo.

 

[Turk]

Take a look at the following links at the Winchester web site. Concerning hot loads there isn’t much difference between the USA ammo and the LEO Bonded (40 S&W). The Ballistic Properties And Terminal Effectiveness link is very interesting it lets you compare different types of rounds.

Turk


USA Ammo
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/doc/LEDocs/USA40JHP.doc


Ranger Conventional Handgun
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/doc/LEDocs/RA40180HP.doc

Ranger T-Series
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/doc/LEDocs/RA40T revised.doc

Ranger Bonded
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/doc/LEDocs/RA40B revised.doc

News release enhanced T-Series
http://www.winchester.com/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=196

New release Winchester Wins FBI 40 S&W Ammunition Contract
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=219

Ballistic Properties And Terminal Effectiveness
http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/testing/testing.aspx#