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Winchester White Box Prohibited at Range

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Colt, Oct 7, 2005.

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  1. Colt

    Colt Member

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    There's an indoor range near me that specifically prohibits WWB ammo, as well as any Blazer ammo. The store attached to the range does not sell either brand. What they sell isn't exotic, but it is overpriced by about 20%. They rent guns, too, so I'm sure the ammo prices are designed to turn a profit from all the "tourist" shooters.

    They claim that the WWB ammo "isn't reliable" and "we've had problems with it on the range." All I know is that their restrictions keep me from taking advantage of the local Wally World's competitive prices. I'm thinking that maybe they can't be competitive with WW"s prices, and have just elected to ban it from their range.

    Has anyone experienced anything similar at their range?
     
  2. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    Do they allow you to bring in any ammo? That is, is it "bought there" ammo only?
     
  3. Lupinus

    Lupinus Member

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    Tell them it is the ammo oyu like and that work's best in your gun. And if they have a problem with that you will be taking your range time elsewhere and will recomend to every one of your friends that visit the range to do the same.
     
  4. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    They own the guns and the range. Their call. When you purchase your own firearms the problem disappears because you now assume the liability of any failures of ammo.
     
  5. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    Wait, wait, they let you use your own ammo in their guns at all? That's what I'm getting, and I'm surprised. I haven't seen a range that would let you shoot your own stuff in their guns at all (rimfires excepted).
     
  6. Colt

    Colt Member

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    You're allowed to bring your own ammo. I usually bring Remington UMC. They inspect your ammo and range bag before letting you onto the range.

    I had started keeping my UMC boxes, though. Last time I went, about 4 months ago, I brought "4 boxes of UMC." What I really brought was 1 unopened box of UMC, and 3 UMC boxes loaded with WWB. I put the unopened box on top in my range bag, which is the only one they checked. This is risky, though, and could probably get me banned from the range. I didn't feel bad about it, because I figure the rule only exists so that they can take advantage of me. I will eventually get busted, though, when the range officer picks up some of my brass, which they do occassionally. Oddly enough, none of the WWB ammo failed, or caused me to "experience problems on the range." :rolleyes:

    I only shoot there during the cold seasons, which are quickly approaching. In warmer weather, I use the public range, which has a "no more than 3 rounds may be loaded into any weapon at any time" rule. Talk about breaking a gun in slowly....
     
  7. Colt

    Colt Member

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    You can bring your own guns and ammo, but the ammo can't be WWB or Blazer.

    They also rent guns, which must be used with ammo purchased from them at the time of rental.
     
  8. Colt

    Colt Member

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    That's what I tried to tell them. When they made up excuses of reliability in WWB ammo, that's when I started to figure it was about $$.
     
  9. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Blazer may be banned because of the ALumnum cases. The range is no doubt selling brass to melters making a few bucks. Aluminum screws the batch up. Steel cases can be magnetically separated. Don't understand WWB ban unless they had a few kbooms and the lawyers squawked.
     
  10. Colt

    Colt Member

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    Definitely. There are large buckets at the exit, one for each caliber. Some people keep their brass, but most don't.
     
  11. countertop

    countertop Member

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    I'm gonna call BS here.

    Do they let you bring in handloads and relaods?
     
  12. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Winchester White Box

    My son and I use Winchester White Box when practicing
    with 9mm, 40 S&W, .45 ACP and .30 carbine and have
    had NO reliability or safety problems. (WWB ammo is not
    just "Wally World" our local stocking dealer carries it.)

    The range owners let you bring in your own ammo if it is
    the same brand as they sell. But they want to sell you
    ammo if you use WWB or Blazer (in your own gun?!).
    We shoot outdoors at the gun club or my uncle's place:
    I like to be reminded why I avoid those indoor ranges.

    I have had one instance of getting an untrimmed case
    in a premium brand ammo that would not chamber,
    but I have had no problems (knock on wood) with WWB
    or Blazer. In other words, I don't think the range has
    a legitimate beef.
     
  13. Colt

    Colt Member

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    They have restrictions "on certain reload types and smoky ammunition."

    It seems to me that WWB is at least as safe, and certainly of more consistent quality than reloads. Not that properly reloaded ammo isn't safe, but given the wide spectrum of skills and experience among handloaders, I'd expect WWB to be at least as "safe."
     
  14. Colt

    Colt Member

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    Where they really "get" you is the first time you are informed of the rule. It's not on their rule board, just a tiny hand-scribbled sign near the lane rental register.

    I was not happy the first time I showed up with all my gear, and a buddy whom I planned to introduce to the sport. They asked to see my ammo and I whipped out a box of 50-count WWB 45ACP. They said "you can't shoot that here." and pointed to their little notice.

    At that point I was stuck and had to choose between spending $13 per box of 25-count UMC, or hiking back to Walmart to save $2.50 a box on the same UMC ammo. Of course I just bought their ammo.

    There aren't any other indoor ranges in my area, which makes me a slave to this policy in winter months.
     
  15. HankB

    HankB Member

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    I've shot many, many thousands of rounds of 9mm WWB out of various of my 9mms with NO repeat NO problems whatsoever.

    IMHO the range owner isn't content with charging you range fees, he wants you to buy his own overpriced ammo, too.
     
  16. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    My range will not allow ANY Wolf ammo. This CAN cause problems. Anything else is OK.

    Kevin
     
  17. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    no WWB??
    They search you???

    GoodBye

    AFS
     
  18. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Only problem I've ever had in maybe a thousand rounds of WWB 9mm was ONE round without any priming compound. Which is one more failure than I've ever had with any other brand, but not really a safety hazard on the range under most circumstances.
     
  19. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Sorry Lupinus, this isn't much of a threat. The range is well aware that any such restriction may limit business. They have weighed that aspect, potential income from those that only shoot WWI or Blazer, against what they perceive as potential liability.

    The math is simple. They may lose a few sales and rental income, but that beats the heck out of losing the entire range in a lawsuit.

    Do they have a realistic fear here? I don't think so, but it isn't my range.

    HankB, you didn't read the thread. You can bring your own ammo, purchased somewhere else, so long as it isn't WWB or Blazer...if you bring your own gun.

    The range only requires you to buy their ammo if you are renting one of their guns.

    Colt, you are only a slave to their policies if you agree to them. If you go to that range voluntarily and shoot, then you are NOT a slave. That is a choice and one that apparently is a matter of convenience. No need to be a drama king by saying you are a slave. Nothing could be further from the truth. How many slaves take their guns and ammo to the local range to shoot?
     
  20. Colt

    Colt Member

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    It's a figure of speech.
     
  21. Edmond

    Edmond Member

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    My answer was to not go there anymore. We're not talking about the same range but the range I used to go to was even more Draconian. They gave me some BS about "clean fire" ammo only, like the Winchester clean fire ammo. Yet, they sold reloads (which were pretty crappy, I might add) at the counter.

    I stopped going there and if anyone asks, I tell them not to go there. They want $13.00 for a 50 ct. box of .45 ACP. For that big of a rip, I'd rather drive a few miles further and not give that place the satisfaction of ripping me off.

    I saw one range that said "American ammo only."

    Of the thousands of Wolf rounds I fired, I have not had a single failure to feed or failure to eject.
     
  22. No_Brakes23

    No_Brakes23 Member

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    They don't let you use WWB, but they let you use UMC?

    They are usually about the same price at my Wally World.

    Both are filthy-shooting rounds, but I have nary a problem with either one.

    One of the local gun shop guys says WWB in .40S&W gives him problems, but only in his CZ75B.


    Oh yeah, as an edit, I think the rule is lame, but their range, their rules. Vote with your wallet or deal with it.
     
  23. Moonclip

    Moonclip Member

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    I hate getting involved with these threads but as always mentioned, if you do not like it, don't go. The business owner will have to modify his policy if need be, or go under.

    Never heard of a WWB ban but many local ranges ban Wolf and Blazer for "safety".The real reason is so they don't ave to sort range brass and so they can recycle/reload the premium brass cases. I actually know a range that allows NO OUTSIDE AMMO, even in your own gun! Still in business too!

    The search thing bothers me, but it's not like you have to let them, I've even been to ranges that make you let them inspect your guns! They are doing the search for a reason though, I think it's pretty cheesy when people try to break the range rules. One of the worst I think is sneaking in extra ammo to use in a range rental.

    I saw mentioned once to but a can of gold spray paint to make steel case rounds look like brass when they are being ejected!
     
  24. sumpnz

    sumpnz Member

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    I've chrono'd a fair amount of WWB harball (.40 and .45) and found it be more consistant than some "premium" ammo like Cor-Bon, Federal, and Speer defensive ammo. Velocity spread, and accuracy were much tighter. Had one round of .45 that had a buckeled case wall (bullet wasn't centered when seated) that caused an FTF, but that was the only problem round in probably 1000.

    Far as I'm concerned there is no safety or reliability problem with WWB ammo. That range is, I think, banning it so they can sell higher priced ammo, not for any safety reasons.
     
  25. OH25shooter

    OH25shooter Member

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    Is this range the only one locally? Does he have a captive membership? He must, because I believe most patrons would take their ammo, guns and business down the road. At my range, you have to use their ammo in rental guns. Plus, no ammo that will ruin the steel backstop. WWB is probably the most common target ammo used.
     
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