Wisdom of Gun Related Events shortly after a shooting

[USAF_Vet]

Arizona: Victims are a Congresswoman and constituents attending a political gathering. Seller is the organization of the opposing party to the Congresswoman.

We're still completely ignoring the fact that the Pima county GOP raffled the Glock off in a previous event months BEFORE the shooting.

I'd say it would be completely out of line to raffle the gun if the first raffle was won by Loughner, and he used the raffled gun to shoot Giffords. We can twist, contrast and compare any number of situations, but it doesn't alter my opinion that this is a non-story being blown up into something more than it is.

There are too many what-if's, too much emotion and not enough logic being utilized.

I agree that given the context in which this story was initially portrayed, it seemed like a bad idea. That was the point. CNN spun the story to make the GOP look bad, when they were doing nothing wrong, nothing insensitive and something they had done in the past.

Maybe I'm just an insensitive jerk, but I really don't see how this is such a major issue.

We can bow down and apologize to people who WANT to be offended and WANT to turn insignificant actions into ammunition against our rights, or we can ignore them and tell them to pound sand. I'll choose the latter.

 

[357 Terms]

Nothing has been twisted.

There are no what ifs- what happened happened.

Who is apologizing?

Man! some of you guys get awful angry and irrational!!!

All some of us are saying is that that local GOP office put ammunition into the anti-gun movement,(is that a pun or bad analogy?) that and it was insensitive.

Why some of you feel the need to get hot under the collar and insult and twist what some of us are saying is well....sad.

 

[we are not amused]

LOL I never said anyone was evil, try to be rational, I said (as you mentioned)REPETEDLY! that they used bad judgement.

In Your opinion. Not mine.

Since you think they did. What do you want to do about it?

Me? I thinking I'll see if they have any raffle tickets left.

 

[we are not amused]

Nothing has been twisted.

They left out a lot of the story. Selective reporting of the facts is twisting the story. I will also point out that the story was being pushed by the local Democrat Party, which makes it political.

All some of us are saying is that that local GOP office put ammunition into the anti-gun movement,(is that a pun or bad analogy?) that and it was insensitive.

Okay, you have said it, most of the rest of us disagreed. Obviously you have a problem with the Pima County Republican Party.
I repeat, what do you want to do about it?

Why some of you feel the need to get hot under the collar and insult and twist what some of us are saying is well....sad.

I checked back on my postings. I never insulted or deliberately twisted what you said.
If you disagree, please point out where I offended. If not, please don't accuse me of it again.
There is a recent poster on this site, that I will not respond to, because I consider him a troll.( by the way, mike, it's not you, even if I think you are being obsessive in your arguments)
Please do not make me expand the list.

 

[Too_Pure]

All I can say is that such a raffle, under those circumstances, is politically tone-deaf. Nothing good can come of it.

How long should they have waited?

 

[Too_Pure]

I could see this being somewhat contraversial and garner strong opionions on either side. Seems to me there is a time and place for everything, though following a shooting such as with Ms Giffords, I don't think its smart to put guns "in the face" of the general public. Its not a matter of being ashamed of being a gun owner or supporting the 2A. Its just that there are many non gun owners or people who are neutral on the subject that may look on a raffle as this in a negative way. That doesn't help gun owners.

I disagree. There is no better time to put guns in the face of the "general public", assuming I know what you mean by that. It is a mistake for responsible firearms owners to retreat in the face of, or in the aftermath of, a psychotic murderer.

 

[Too_Pure]

... I might have chosen to raffle off a different gun. The only thing worse would have been to raffle a used Glock 19.

They already had it left over from last year.

 

[Too_Pure]

True but if someone is killed in a red Ford Mustang then funeral attendees should probably arrive in a different car... not a red Ford Mustang.

But if that is what you drive, then I think it would be unreasonable to be expected to not show up, walk, rent a car. Reality is reality, even after very bad things happen. The world still goes on.

 

[Mike1234567]

How long should they have waited?

They probably should never have "re-raffled" the Glock but, instead sold/traded it for another brand to raffle. No matter how anyone "here" feels about it... and no matter how anyone "there" feels about it... it does indeed allow media twisting to harm our cause of protecting the 2A. Like it or not, logical or not... DOES NOT MATTER... so it's all moot argument.

Can we all agree that the left media and antis will indeed twist this to their advantage? If yes then this argument is moot. It's done already and they can't "un-raffle" the stupid thing.

ETA: I wish now that I'd never used a R.F.M. analogy though any other wouldn't have fared any better.

 

[Too_Pure]

At the very least it is a boneheaded gesture. For those of you that say it is nothing to get upset about have never spent much time with anti-gun folks, if many of us 2nd Amend. supporters think this is in poor taste (and it is) what do ya think a staunch anti-gunner is gonna say?

A lot of the stuff I read on the internet, typed by so-called Second Amendment supporters, leaves me with serious reservations over their comprehension of the role of private firearm ownership in American Liberty.

I'm not all that worried about what the anti-gunners are gonna say, really, even If there was no gun opposition I would say to that GOP office " what are you thinking"?!!

The answer would be "We are thinking about raising money to defeat leftists in elections".

 

[Too_Pure]

I'm discouraged after just reading the first page of this thread.

The willingness to retreat at the slightest protest by Liberty Haters gives me a heavy heart.

I have to stop reading.

Very bad things happen all the time. Life goes on.

 

[Neverwinter]

They already had it left over from last year.

But if that is what you drive, then I think it would be unreasonable to be expected to not show up, walk, rent a car. Reality is reality, even after very bad things happen. The world still goes on.

We're still completely ignoring the fact that the Pima county GOP raffled the Glock off in a previous event months BEFORE the shooting.

If you hadn't noticed, the objections are not to the raffle of last year but to the raffle for this year. The raffle that didn't necessarily have to use a Glock as the prize.

It's done already and they can't "un-raffle" the stupid thing.

What they can do is show the public that the gun owners among the GOP will not
"retreat in the aftermath of a psychotic murderer". A good way for them to do this is to double down and raffle off a Glock 19 next time.

Me? I thinking I'll see if they have any raffle tickets left.

I think it would be worth it just to neglect to claim the prize. Then we get to see what the Arizona GOP does with it the next time that they need a fundraiser.

 

[Neverwinter]

There is a recent poster on this site, that I will not respond to, because I consider him a troll.( by the way, mike, it's not you, even if I think you are being obsessive in your arguments)

If you have found someone in violation of rule #4 for trolling, you should report the trolling posts. That should get any violating content deleted.

 

[we are not amused]

They probably should never have "re-raffled" the Glock but, instead sold/traded it for another brand to raffle. No matter how anyone "here" feels about it... and no matter how anyone "there" feels about it... it does indeed allow media twisting to harm our cause of protecting the 2A. Like it or not, logical or not... DOES NOT MATTER... so it's all moot argument.

Can we all agree that the left media and antis will indeed twist this to their advantage? If yes then this argument is moot. It's done already and they can't "un-raffle" the stupid thing.

ETA: I wish now that I'd never used a R.F.M. analogy though any other wouldn't have fared any better.

I agree, where I disagree is whether they should have done it or not. If they had traded the gun for some other, in my opinion, based upon experience, the hoplophobes would have responded in the same way.

Considering the fact that the Outrage was spearheaded by the local Democratic Party, means that this was less about legitimate outrage, than coordinated political strategy.

Only if they, (the Pima County Republicans) had refused to engage in any 2nd Amendment activity, could this have been avoided.

To me, that is unacceptable. I refuse to surrender my rights to terrorist. I refuse to surrender my rights to hoplophobic hysteria.

Simply owning guns, is offensive to hoplophobes. Any thing we do to exercise our 2nd Amendment rights is offensive to those people. I don't believe compromise is possible, or a good idea.

I respect the fact that you do support the 2nd Amendment, I have seen some of your other postings, you are not in my opinion a troll. But I must strongly disagree with your opinion on this.

I simply do not believe that we must subject our every activity to what the hoplophobes consider acceptable. I refuse to define myself by their standards, I refuse to accept their definitions.

I will not surrender what I consider my rights or the rights of others. Neither will I publicly attack others who support the 2nd Amendment. Even if I disagree with their specific tactics. I will try to inform their critics of why they are right, not agree with the hoplophobes why they are wrong.

I do agree with Senator Barry Goldwater, "that extremism in defense of liberty is no vice,... and moderation in the pursuit of justice no virtue."

I realize that may make me "a dangerous extremist" in your eyes, so be it. I will accept the appellation.

 

[we are not amused]

We can bow down and apologize to people who WANT to be offended and WANT to turn insignificant actions into ammunition against our rights, or we can ignore them and tell them to pound sand. I'll choose the latter.

Well said! I agree and wish I had said it as well as you.

 

[357 Terms]

^ Yeah ..pound sand..along with your chests!
You talk like your opinoins will influence others!
I just hope no reporter puts a microphone in your faces: your words would put MANY people off, and embarass gun rights advocates.

The anti's will gleefuly quote your rants!

 

[Too_Pure]

They probably should never have "re-raffled" the Glock but, instead sold/traded it for another brand to raffle. No matter how anyone "here" feels about it... and no matter how anyone "there" feels about it... it does indeed allow media twisting to harm our cause of protecting the 2A. Like it or not, logical or not... DOES NOT MATTER... so it's all moot argument.

Can we all agree that the left media and antis will indeed twist this to their advantage? If yes then this argument is moot. It's done already and they can't "un-raffle" the stupid thing.

ETA: I wish now that I'd never used a R.F.M. analogy though any other wouldn't have fared any better.

The media, liberals, antis, will twist the truth no matter how hard you try to placate them. So I think its not worth it to bother.


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[we are not amused]

Alright, that's enough. I have just added another to my list of trolls.

Mike1234567, good arguing with you, we just have to agree to disagree. I think you are being overly sensitive to bad publicity, but that is my opinion. I don't think we are going to change each others minds.

But there are too many trolls showing up, and remember the 1st rule on trolls.

Don't feed them!

 

[357 Terms]

Posted by w.a.n.a.

I realize that may make me "a dangerous extremist" in your eyes, so be it. I will accept the appellation.
__________________

WOW! you sure can exagerate!
Never said you were a "dangerous extremist" just maybe narrow minded and way too right of center to be useful in a productive conversation.

 

[Mike1234567]

we are not amused... Yup, I agree to disagree. I hope I'm not the new troll in your list.

 

[we are not amused]

Of course not! I respect you, just disagree with you.

 

[Neverwinter]

The information that story was fed to the media by the Arizona Democratic party does remind us of the partisan interests involved.

Experience with the mainstream media of Fox and talk radio indicates that they would be caught up in the same shenanigans if it were the Arizona Democractic party doing the raffles despite a Republican shooting. Supposed support of RKBA would go out the door in favor of their political agenda. No one here can honestly say that they wouldn't take the opportunity to capitalize on the chance to paint the Democrats as insensitive and cheerleading a tragedy.

As RKBA proponents, we would be negligent in forgetting how the partisan interests and their supporting media are seeking to use us in their fights.

 

[Mike1234567]

^^^ I have to agree with you, pardner.

 

[USAF_Vet]

^ Yeah ..pound sand..along with your chests!
You talk like your opinoins will influence others!
I just hope no reporter puts a microphone in your faces: your words would put MANY people off, and embarass gun rights advocates.

The anti's will gleefuly quote your rants!

So expressing my opinion makes me a chest pounding Neanderthal or something?

Expressing opinions are designed for the purpose, of influencing others. I don't expect to change peoples minds, only express a different POV.

And I make it a habit of avoiding the media. There are enough idiots out there to make every side look bad, just the way the media likes them.

I'll advance the 2A by doing what I've always done. Safe keeping and safe shooting of guns, and not acting like a redneck hillbilly.

 

[Too_Pure]

What's wrong with redneck hillbillies?


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