Wisdom of Gun Related Events shortly after a shooting

[357 Terms]

The point is is that this was the local GOP office! I know most of us on this forum dont see a big deal in this; but... we are a minority. There are a lot of people that have a VOTE that don't see things the same way; people that are on the fence about gun rights.
If the GOP looks insensitive than it hurts, people can be swayed.
It was a dumb move .
I do get a laugh about those of us who mention that it was a different model Glock!!..
Like the average voter even knows there are different models!!
NBC nightly news just said it was a very bad week for gun violence!! 6:36 eastern!
GET A CLUE!!!

BTW that" get a clue" was for that GOP office and those of us who can't see beyond the lenght of our arms.

 

[Danb1215]

Would you object if they had raffled off a different brand of handgun? Lets say they raffled off a Springfield XD in 9mm. Would it be an issue?

 

[357 Terms]

Would you object if they had raffled off a different brand of handgun

Hello!!! they raffled a GLOCK!

PERCEPTION!

Read the tread title " Wisdom........AFTER"

it doesn't matter ...its not about what could have /should have....its about what DID happen.

 

[rori]

WOW!!!! Some people need to get a life. A person commited a crime period!! The gun didn't. All this blaming the gun and not the person is ludecrous. I don't care if if was a muzzleloader it was still the person not the instrument. Lifes a Bi)))(( and then you die. End of story. Frank

 

[N003k]

Actually 357, this very much IS about what could/should have been done. We can't change what already HAPPENED, that story is an example of why I feel we need to examine the topic.

The purpose of this forum is to promote the RKBA, which also includes perception. I personally think it is relevant to ask "What if they HAD raffled off a ____?" because that could in the future be taken into account at other events members have some say in. I really do feel that those of you that think this is in bad taste are probably the most helpful to the discussion also, as you all are the ones that are allowing us to explore the issue, otherwise this would be a really quick open and shut thread.

So, would it have been acceptable as another brand of handgun with a similar look?

Is there a certain "time after" that it's acceptable again?

 

[357 Terms]

What is most important is "what is the average voters perception"

I tend to think that asking a gun related question regarding politics on this forum is going to get very "limited" answers.
post #79 is a good and recent example.
There are many many people in this country that don't have a firm stance on gun control,people that vote.
What the GOP did in that county hurt the "fence sitters" perception of the GOP.
I know that doesn't make a lot of sense to many on this forum but it is undeniable.
Again-.. six people, including a very young girl ,were killed and the author of post #79 said...

"lifes a bitch and then you die"....nice

NOO3k; what kind of resonses were you expecting on a gun forum?
I am not blaming the gun!!!!! just very very poor political thinking, even if only on a small scale.

 

[gopguy]

Glock is a brand, the antis would complain they raffled a handgun and she was shot with a handgun.

We cave to this silly stuff they win. Don't let the opposition frame the argument.


There will no doubt be emails from Sarah Brady tomorrow calling for banning AK rifles and "Assault Clips" in my mail box. I like to keep an eye on our foes, they are rather shrill idiots. What we should be asking is how did this guy, supposedly with mental issues get this gun. Is this possibly a BATFE Fast and Furious gun? I really want to know.

 

[HexHead]

I don't have a problem with the raffle. The bedwetters making a big deal about it would make a big deal about anything the GOP does. It's their job. You all need to read Saul Alinski's book, Rules for Radicals, to see how these people think, it's their playbook. They're just using a form of rule #13.

One of the things I dislike about most gun forums is that they're too worried about what people that already hate us think. Like presenting a happy face is going to change their minds.

 

[Strykervet]

I saw this on CNN. CNN actually ran the teaser as "The gun that was used to shoot Giffords up for auction --next." The lady doing the "interview" kept trying to get the guy representing the raffle to admit to being in the wrong. The guy seemed baffled that the lady was trying to paint him in a corner. She started out saying it WAS the pistol used to shoot Giffords, then to it was a similar pistol, then it wasn't the same model, on and on, all the while never modifying her arguement. She ended saying "We'll just have to agree to disagree". She said it though in a way and context that seemed to me that she was speaking on my behalf.

It also came to light that the pistol was auctioned off LAST YEAR and the guy that won it didn't pick it up, so they raffled it again (and said they'd buy him one too if he came foward). Now since they've been doing this previously, and with the exact same pistol no less, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Giffords, I'd have to say there is nothing wrong with it at all. It isn't insensitive either, it just is what it is, and a non-story made into one.

Would you change your actions based on what that scum did? Based entirely on emotion? If you would, then you have kowtow'd to the anti's, and let the scum represent you in the process.

We have to fight this battle with logic and not emotion. Emotion is what they use to further their agenda, they can't use logic. Logic will win every time.

 

[357 Terms]

I saw this on CNN

What do you think the average American will think about this[

The guy seemed baffled

That doesn't surprise me at all

 

[baylorattorney]

What they should do is sell more tickets and donate the proceeds to stopping violence in Giffords name.

 

[Neverwinter]

One of the things I dislike about most gun forums is that they're too worried about what people that already hate us think. Like presenting a happy face is going to change their minds.

One of things I dislike about most gun forums is that they don't care enough about what the fence-sitters think.

If the Arizona GOP were auctioning off a Glock 19 with 33 rd mag instead of a Glock 23, we'd still have the people who would say that "it's demonizing the object" and "it's not like they're auctioning off the same gun".

What they should do is sell more tickets and donate the proceeds to stopping violence in Giffords name.

That's a great idea.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Would you object if they had raffled off a different brand of handgun? Lets say they raffled off a Springfield XD in 9mm. Would it be an issue?

Nope.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I don't think some of you are giving the 'fence-sitters' enough credit to think for themselves. Sure, there are some who might be dumb enough to do what their TV tells them to do, but then they probably wouldn't be intelligent enough to be a fence sitter to begin with. Even those who are undecided about where they stand on guns can see the BS spewing from CNN. We just have to hope that they aren't so easily swayed, can see the forest for the trees, and will make an informed decision rooted in fact, logic and research rather than emotion and rhetoric.

 

[we are not amused]

Look, we can't live our lives in fear about what some anti-gun nut thinks, says or lies about us.
Every time a high profile shooting occurs, the anti-gun nuts come screeching out of the woodwork given huge support from the Main Stream Media and there is nothing we can do about it.

The anti-gun nuts are going to make a big deal out of everything. They are going to lie, distort and scream rape just to get attention.

If we do what they want us to do, we would be surrendering all our weapons.

Remember Columbine in Lakewood Colorado? Just days before the NRA's big annual meeting in Denver?

The NRA cancelled all public events, and held only the required organizational meetings, yet they were still castigated by the Main Stream Media and the Clinton Administration and it's flunkies.

There are those among us, both committed RKBA's and others who urge caution and "keeping a low profile". Some of the them are sincere, others just trolls. To the sincere RKBA's who urge caution and a low profile, I ask "how long"?

Keep in mind, that no matter how long we wait, the first time we raise our head, some anti-gun nut will be there to whack at it.

I want to repeat myself, How long do we keep a low profile?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Our profile is bigger than it has been in years, gun ownership has spiked. There are two shows on two major networks that promote guns in a format that non gun people will watch. Our hobby is becoming more acceptable by the average non gun owning Joe. The only problem with this recent raffle is that its a Glock. A Glock was the Killer's weapon. Its not the fact that its a gun but it was a Glock. Would you feel the same way if the Mayor of NYC raffled out airline tickets almost a year after 9/11? What about a FiveseveN raffle near Fort Hood after the shooting there? It wasn't any of those items fault, but its still in poor taste.

The NRA cancelled all public events, and held only the required organizational meetings, yet they were still castigated by the Main Stream Media and the Clinton Administration and it's flunkies.

Could have severely hurt their image. Think about it, people mourning the shooting only to hear about the NRA celebrating gun ownership and freedom the next city over. If the media caught hold of it, the fence sitters would probably jump off to the side we don't want them to. Sometimes its like that you people think the slightest thing means all guns go away. We get that it wasn't the guns fault, its just poor taste.

 

[pyth0n]

HE used a Glock 19. The GLOCK 19 did not USE him. Looks like some people fell into the brady bunch idea that the Glock killed Christina Taylor Green, not jared loughner (intentionally lower case).

 

[Mike1234567]

Forget logic. This isn't about logic. It's an emotional and political issue which DOES negatively impact 2A rights. It doesn't matter what you or I think. It matters what affects the attitudes of the general populous. If you don't think it makes any difference just think of the "straw that broke the camel's back". It DOES make a difference. Whittle away hare-and-there at anything and, pretty soon, there's nothing left.

It doesn't matter what the antis think. It was a very stupid move politically and insensitive toward those who were hurt by that Lunatic who just happened to have used a Glock.

Since they already raffled the Glock they could have either held onto it another year or just sold it or traded for a different firearm to raffle this time around. STOOPID!!

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

HE used a Glock 19. The GLOCK 19 did not USE him. Looks like some people fell into the brady bunch idea that the Glock killed Christina Taylor Green, not jared loughner (intentionally lower case).

So if Bloomberg raffled airline tickets almost a year after 9/11 it would be okay? We all here agree that it wasn't the guns fault since its just a tool but ITS POOR TASTE.

Forget logic. This isn't about logic. It's an emotional and political issue which DOES negatively impact 2A rights. It doesn't matter what you or I think. It matters what affects the attitudes of the general populous. If you don't think it makes any difference just think of the "straw that broke the camel's back". It DOES make a difference. Whittle away hare-and-there at anything and, pretty soon, there's nothing left.

This

 

[USAF_Vet]

I think Strykervet nailed it here

It also came to light that the pistol was auctioned off LAST YEAR and the guy that won it didn't pick it up, so they raffled it again (and said they'd buy him one too if he came foward). Now since they've been doing this previously, and with the exact same pistol no less, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Giffords, I'd have to say there is nothing wrong with it at all. It isn't insensitive either, it just is what it is, and a non-story made into one.

That tidbit of info is disastrous to the anti's case here, so of course the mainstream media never covered it. To them, the GOP might as well have been raffling off the exact gun used in the killings, loaded with the recovered bullets still stained with the victim's blood. Cuz that's what draws ratings. Why report facts with logic when you can speculate and draw emotion? Emotion sells.

 

[we are not amused]

Who cares if the Mayor of New York auctioned off airline tickets?

The shooting in Tuscon were almost eight months ago, how long is an appropriate period of time?

The NRA cancelled it's public celebrations and was still viciously attacked by the anti-gun nuts and the Clinton Administration and their flunkies in the News Media!

What more could they have done?
The anti-gun nuts will attack us at any opportunity, we are not going to make them like us.

How far do we go to avoid "inflaming" public opinion?

We don't control the News Media, they do! It doesn't matter how pure our motives, in their minds we are evil! They will attack us with all the fervor of a vampire going after a virgin.

Do we live in fear, cower by day, only come out at night when no one is looking?

If we act like we are guilty, or ashamed, we play into their narrative that what we do is wrong.

We can't act ashamed of owning guns, liking them, or shooting them.

A lot self-flagellation is being spent on the "Fence-sitters", "We can't upset them". "We can't look bad to them".
We shouldn't be responding to the ant-gunners defensively, we need to take the initiative in winning over the fence sitters and undecided. We won't do that by cowering in fear or acting guilty.

Instead of whining about how "they" are making us look bad, write your newspaper and point out the error of their ways. Write or call your local television station and correct their errors.

I don't think there is much you can do about the Huffington Post, but reasoned responses to their inanities in the comments section wouldn't hurt.

Offer to take a reporter out to the local shooting range, get a Gun Instructor to help, (don't do something stupid in front of the reporter) if need be. Many reporters have never handled a gun, and have no idea how much fun it can be. If you own property, I would prefer a more informal "plinking" session, but what ever you do, be safe and friendly.

The last thing we should do is act ashamed or guilty about our guns.

 

[Mike1234567]

Those of us who say that it makes no difference and they're going to attack us anyway...

If you find yourself locked in jail with a randy redneck are you going to walk around with your pants pulled halfway down because it's too hot and humid? Oh, right, he's gonna attack you anyway.

It just makes no sense to exacerbate the problem, expose our vulnerabilities, or give them ammunition, or...

 

[we are not amused]

Could have severely hurt their image. Think about it, people mourning the shooting only to hear about the NRA celebrating gun ownership and freedom the next city over. If the media caught hold of it, the fence sitters would probably jump off to the side we don't want them to. Sometimes its like that you people think the slightest thing means all guns go away.

I never said the NRA action was inappropriate, just that they were viciously attacked anyway.

My argument is, that we can't act like we are ashamed of our guns. If the Pima County Republicans were ever going to do something like this again, how long were they suppose to wait?
And would it have done any good if they did wait longer? I am more of Strykervet and USA_Vet opinion on the matter.
Instead of whining how this makes us look bad, get the real facts out there, and stop acting guilty or ashamed.

By the way, I never walk around with my pants at half mast, and if he's going to attack me anyway, he will have a fight on his hands.

 

[ny32182]

People who object wouldn't like it regardless of the "timing".

The raffle isn't at the funeral, it isn't even the same week, or the same month. It is in the same STATE, several MONTHS later, as someone famous who got injured with an extremely common firearm.

If this is "insensitive", then when and where, exactly, in AZ is it going to be acceptable for people to have Glocks again?

Anyone looking to make political hay of this would be doing so regardless of any other factor... screw 'em.

Laughtner doesn't represent me any more because he was using a Glock than he does because he was wearing shoes or driving a car.

 

[Mike1234567]

...

(partial quote) My argument is, that we can't act like we are ashamed of our guns.

No one here even hinted that we should.

If the Pima County Republicans were ever going to do something like this again, how long were they suppose to wait?

Well in excess of a year and probably at least two.

And would it have done any good if they did wait longer?

Yes.

Instead of whining how this makes us look bad...

No one is whining and it does make us look bad.

...get the real facts out there, and stop acting guilty or ashamed.

Again, it's not a matter of facts or logic. This is purely emotional and political. Who here said any of us are ashamed?

By the way, I never walk around with my pants at half mast, and if he's going to attack me anyway, he will have a fight on his hands.

Well, at least we know that you'll make it as difficult as possible for Bubba to have his way.