Witnessing A Knife Fight

[jahwarrior]

First off, I want to point out that the situation I'm talking about did not happen to me, nor was witnessed by me. It comes from a lively debate with someone else, who thought that armed citizens have a responsibility to intervene in dangerous situations, a la Batman.

You are walking down the street, and witness a fight happening in front of you. During the course of the fight, one individual pulls out a knife, and attempts to stab the other guy. Assuming you're legally carrying a firearm, do you:

1. Draw your weapon, and order both men to stop? If the one with the knife doesn't, do you shoot?

2. Intervene without drawing your gun?

3. Do nothing, except call the police, and hope they get there before one guy gets injured or killed?

I think that if were just a fistfight, I'd probably keep on walking. I don't think I'd be able to stand by if one of them brought a deadly weapon into play, though. But, I think that if both men were armed equally, I'd keep my distance, and call the police. The person I was arguing with is convinced that the best course of action would be to disarm, or at least not present a firearm, while attempting to physically intervene, which I think is the dumbest thing ever.

 

[snakeman]

I would have to call the police and sit it out. You may not know the situation.

 

[JPG19]

Sit it out and call the police for sure. The guy who pulled the knife could be an undercover officer for all you know.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Whatever you decide to do, don't even consider option #2. Getting involved with equal or lessor force is the act of the foolish.

 

[jahwarrior]

Whatever you decide to do, don't even consider option #2. Getting involved with equal or lessor force is the act of the foolish.

Yeah, #2 isn't even an option, in my opinion, but the "gentleman" I was debating this point with is convinced that it's the best course of action. I agreed...if the goal was to get dead really fast.

 

[bikerdoc]

Be a good witness! ( after calling 911)

 

[Fotno]

It's hard enough to make good decisions when you know all the circumstances of a situation, much less when you don't. In this state if you choose to intervene you had better'd be right, or you will go to prison.

Call 911.

 

[Doghandler]

This sounds like mutual combat. I will get out of there ASAP and make a mental note to not walk past the tavern the next time I'm out for an after midnight dog walk.

I can already hear the sirens so no need to dial 911.

 

[dprice3844444]

take some pictures after calling cops

 

[Gottahaveone]

It's hard enough to make good decisions when you know all the circumstances of a situation, much less when you don't. In this state if you choose to intervene you had better'd be right, or you will go to prison.

Call 911.

Same in SC. When you act to defend another, you are placed "in their shoes". If a self defense plea wouldn't have been available to them if THEY were the one doing the shooting (i.e. they started the fight or it's mutual combat) then it's not available to you.
Hello Greybar Hotel.......

I would make it clear that I was calling 911 and was willing to be a witness.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Yeah, #2 isn't even an option, in my opinion, but the "gentleman" I was debating this point with is convinced that it's the best course of action. I agreed...if the goal was to get dead really fast.

I guess it might work if one were highly skilled in unarmed combatives. But this isn't the movies and we're not all Steven Seagal or Chuck Norris...Jet Li and Jackie Chan would know better

 

[smalls]

And what happens when you shoot the guy with the knife, and he was actually just defending himself from an attack?

You call the police, be a good witness if it does not become a danger to your own safety.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Here is an angle you may not have considered. Suppose this is not a black and white case of one man with a knife attacking the other who is forced to defend himself with his own knife.

Suppose that both men voluntarily chose to step outside and fight in a duel of sorts? That makes it a private fight and none of your business, at least in their minds. If you try to get involved they both may try to kill you. There is a world of difference between coming to the aid of a crime victim and sticking your nose where it does not belong.

I know of a case where two guys got into a scuffle in the parking lot of a local bar and some do-gooder alpha male type tried to intervene. The two guys turned on him and put him in the hospital for a week. It turned out that the two guys were best buddies who were also MMA fighters engaging in a little rough horse play.

 

[Telekinesis]

I'm falling squarely on the side of don't intervene and call the police unless you know ALL the facts.

You can take the point of view of the opening post of mutual combat, then one pulls a knife to try to kill his opponent, or you could have another story where a guy is minding his own business when he's attacked by someone, and throws a punch or two and then pulls out a knife to better defend himself, similarly to how we would pull out our guns. I know that when I can't carry a gun, I always have a knife and would use it if I needed a weapon.

I would also avoid pulling your weapon and trying to hold the two parties. First of all, a citizen's arrest is a tricky proposition from both a practical and legal standpoint. But most importantly (and relevant to the situation) if I'm defending myself from an attacker and someone else comes up and pulls a gun on me, I'm going to assume that he and the other attacker are working together. And when you prioritize your targets, a gun is a much bigger threat than a guy with fists or an impact weapon. That means I'm shooting the guy with the gun first.

So, the passer by do-gooder trying to stop a fight/self defense act just became a combatant. But here's the kicker, BOTH parties will view you as a threat and both are liable to take action against you. Essentially you just chose to join a fight at a 2-1 disadvantage where you know at least one of the parties is armed.

 

[T Bran]

In this situation call 911 stand back and use your phone to videorecord the rest of the fight.
Who knows there may be some monetary value to the video at some point in time.
Do not intervene beyond providing first aid to the looser after the fact and calling the authorities.
T

 

[Sam1911]

But this isn't the movies and we're not all Steven Seagal or Chuck Norris...Jet Li and Jackie Chan would know better

I see what you did there...

You sneaky devil!

 

[9mmepiphany]

You sneaky devil!

I know...it is cultural

 

[Girodin]

I bet these folks were very happy someone intervened. I think it would depend on a number of factors. I would not pick number 2.

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/sto...op-stabbing-spree/zdZzsT6hNk2Q9tJtkKq3VA.cspx

 

[jimbo555]

Walk away,let nature play out!

 

[Owen Sparks]

When I worked as a bouncer some of the worst problems happened when people tried to 'help'. It almost always made things worse. The police feel the same way about you trying to enforce the law, especially when you are not in any danger.

 

[carbuncle]

First off, I want to point out that the situation I'm talking about did not happen to me, nor was witnessed by me. It comes from a lively debate with someone else, who thought that armed citizens have a responsibility to intervene in dangerous situations, a la Batman.

You are walking down the street, and witness a fight happening in front of you. During the course of the fight, one individual pulls out a knife, and attempts to stab the other guy. Assuming you're legally carrying a firearm, do you:

1. Draw your weapon, and order both men to stop? If the one with the knife doesn't, do you shoot?

2. Intervene without drawing your gun?

3. Do nothing, except call the police, and hope they get there before one guy gets injured or killed?

I think that if were just a fistfight, I'd probably keep on walking. I don't think I'd be able to stand by if one of them brought a deadly weapon into play, though. But, I think that if both men were armed equally, I'd keep my distance, and call the police. The person I was arguing with is convinced that the best course of action would be to disarm, or at least not present a firearm, while attempting to physically intervene, which I think is the dumbest thing ever.

I saw a guy get stabbed on the hood of an occupied cop car at 2nd and Pike in Downtown Seattle about 16 years ago: the cop didn't get out to intervene, so I didn't feel like I should step in. Co-worker got into the middle of a barfight between two guys last year, one of them decked him and then kicked him in the back of the head: 2 months in a coma, for someone else's BS. No, thank you.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[we are not amused]

While this is an interesting topic for a Bull session, and it is important to consider various scenarios and how to react to them, the stated scenario is too vague for much of a response. As has been pointed out, this could be a private fight, or the guy with a knife may be defending himself.

With the above scenario, I would call 911, and be extremely wary of intervening with my weapon, but not rule it out if the situation demanded it. I would have a hard time living with myself if I just stood by wringing my hands while murder happened in front of me, but my response would have to depend upon the immediate situation. How much had I seen? What is the local like? Other witnesses, likely response time of the police, the behavior of the knife fight participants and other intangibles too numerous to mention, including my evaluation of my ability to effectively intervene in a positive manner.

In other words, my response would have to be dependent upon the specific situation as I judged it at the time. I really think drawing up hard and fast rules of when to intervene and how in advance is futile, everything is so contingent upon the actual events. Billvau started a thread about where a well intentioned person apparently screwed up big time, it happens, police often end up shooting the wrong person when they show up at an ongoing scene of violence, you certainly don't want it to happen to you.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Dail 911 and use the movie maker most newer phones have to document the event.

 

[Leanwolf]

JAHWARRIOT - " It comes from a lively debate with someone else, who thought that armed citizens have a responsibility to intervene in dangerous situations, a la Batman."

You should tell your friend if he wants to intervene like a sworn peace officer, he should apply to his local P.D. or Sheriff's Dept., go through the Academy, and then work the streets where he just might have the opportunity to handle a situation such as described.

Otherwise, be a good witness and call 9-1-1.

L.W.

 

[sixgunner455]

Situation dependent. Like the guy at the grocery store in Utah, I would probably intervene if some guy started stabbing random people in the parking lot. But that is not two guys in a fistfight who then escalate to knives.