Almost drew tonight: witnessed a near murder in a front yard

[Searcher4851]

All things considered it sounds like you did fine. It sounds like a situation where deadly force was not required in the first place. You mentioned that there were already neighbors involved and/or intervening. At that point, use of deadly force would have done nothing but caused YOU problems. Sounds like you saved a couple of butts that night.

 

[scaatylobo]

All who said "he did great" did any of you stop to consider that the 3 'T' shirts were NOT unarmed and just waiting for a reason to draw or cut the "good citizen".

I was born in NYC and spent 25 years there.

Then moved to a small city in Western NY and became LEO for 26 years,and its very true that FACT is stranger than fiction.

ASSUME that your helping "innocent" citizens and find yourself up a creek with no paddle.

I am a true believer in the motto of Boys Town " he aint heavy,he's my brother".

But it better be a brother who you KNOW to be innocent,sit in a court for a few years and see what comes in the doors and the storys that come out.

Fact IS stranger than fiction.

I would only hope y'all will remember that if you are ever in the OP's shoes.

 

[Dirty Bob]

The more I think about the incident, the happier I am that I didn't draw or approach the situation. It seems -- in retrospect -- to be almost a textbook no-win situation for the civilian who intervenes. I've imagined trying to defend intervention in court, and it scares me.

The point about the April, 1986 FBI shootout in Florida is a good one. I remember reading about the cops standing off because they couldn't tell one side from the other.

It's also scary to replay in my head the actions of some of my neighbors. They got really close to the combatants, trying to stop the fight. Yes, it turned out OK, but they could have become victims in the blink of an eye.

Thank you so much for all the replies.

What I wish I'd done:

1. Move to cover.
2. Call 9-1-1.
3. Record the fight and stay on with the dispatch.
4. Stay in a safe place. When the fight ended with the escape of one person, scoot for home and make follow-up call to the police.

My current cell phone does not have video capability, but I can now think of reasons to have it. I may be upgrading soon.

Thanks again,
Dirty Bob

 

[scaatylobo]

Move to cover !

I was just sent a D'Quips from John Farnam.

He said something that I will add to my mindset and 'armory'.

If your in public and you hear gunfire = RUN to the nearest exit and do not stop even if you are ordered by a active shooter .

The odds of getting away are greater if you do not stop,as witnessed by those that did flee simular circumstances.

Those who fled lived,those who stopped were killed.

I have already told my wife the plan,and she knows I meant it.

Yes,I am armed and do not want or need a confrontation = ESPECIALLY if my wife is there.

I am an old and retired LEO [ LOD injurys ] so actually running os not possible.

But I will leave and I am VERY happy to see the OP understand the pricipal in hindsight.

 

[Patriotme]

I don't know what the correct response would be in this situation but I would like to share one little piece of info on people that I know.
I have family members that are generally very nice people but about once every year or so they have some kind of dispute that looks like something off of "Cops." Imagine the most redneck group of people that they show and the most confusing backwards a$$ stituation and that's what they have on about a yearly basis.
The cops get called. Sometimes someone gets a ride downtown. They are all back to being best friends a few days, a week or a few months later.
Now I don't know all of the details of the OP's stated situation and I won't second guess what I believe was a good response. I will say that if that was my (extended) family they would all have blamed the shooter and testified against him in court. I can see this same thing happening in their front yard and the OP's good intentions might have landed him in jail had this been carried just a little further and the group was similiar to those that I know.
Domestic stuff is always tricky.
I know that it would be very hard to watch a man assaulting a woman and I don't think that I could stand by and watch it happen. I will say however that intervening can be a disaster waiting to happen since I really doubt that abusers just did it that one time. Women tend to go back to these guys over and over and will often defend the abuser.
Kind of off topic but I just wanted to make my point that domestic stuff can be a nightmare for someone that intervenes with good intentions.

 

[Dirty Bob]

I just wanted to make my point that domestic stuff can be a nightmare for someone that intervenes with good intentions.

I couldn't agree more. Listen to cops, and they seem to hate responding to two things:
1. Where kids have been hurt.
2. Domestic disputes.

I think the lesson in this whole mess was that knowing when not to shoot (or intervene) is at least as important as knowing when to take action.

Thanks,
Dirty Bob

 

[scaatylobo]

PATRIOTME = very good point,as a retired LEO I can attest to that all to easily.

I too was raised to not allow a woman to be attacked,BUT a woman being attacked can and HAS turned on her "savior" after that savior started to whack her attacker.

being shot or stabbed in the back has also occurred.

 

[scaatylobo]

DIRTY BOB, for me the worst was children.

I stll remember all to well my first dead infant - haunts me even as I pen this.

 

[poihths]

I've gone over this sort of question in my mind, envisioning various scenarios or in response to situations I read about, and I always come to the same conclusion: it's barely conceivable that I might decide to use lethal force in defense of someone other than myself or someone I love, but the situations I can imagine that would warrant it all have one thing in common: that I or someone I love is part of a group that comes under attack--the mall shooting, that sort of thing. Unless I'm acting to defend my own life or that of someone I love, I'll pull out the cell phone, but I won't pull out the gun.