If you can, video record even with a cell phone would help your case. And some aggressive people get confused or back off momentarily if they THINK they are being video taped, unsure how much they'll be able to get away with. It takes practice though remembering how to deploy the recorder under pressure.
Almost drew tonight: witnessed a near murder in a front yard
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Dirty Bob
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Great suggestion on videorecording the incident. Also helps with prosecution later, I suspect.
Regarding neighborhoods, I grew up in a nice neighborhood, but I didn't always work in nice places. My work takes me all over this metro area, in good and bad parts. I once witnessed a car screech to a halt beside a young woman. Three men inside, one of whom jumped out, slapped her several times, and dragged her in. They sped off. The whole thing took about 10 seconds. I was across the street and called 911 to give a good description. No way in heck was I getting into the middle of that. If it was a domestic dispute, she'd probably testify against me at the trial!
My neighbors are freaked out, right now. My subdivision was built in the late 70s/early 80s, and it's very common to see people out walking dogs, kids playing outside, families on bicycles, etc. It reinforces one of my thoughts about crime and violence: live where the bad stuff doesn't happen all the time, but keep in mind that bad stuff can happen anywhere.
Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
Regarding neighborhoods, I grew up in a nice neighborhood, but I didn't always work in nice places. My work takes me all over this metro area, in good and bad parts. I once witnessed a car screech to a halt beside a young woman. Three men inside, one of whom jumped out, slapped her several times, and dragged her in. They sped off. The whole thing took about 10 seconds. I was across the street and called 911 to give a good description. No way in heck was I getting into the middle of that. If it was a domestic dispute, she'd probably testify against me at the trial!
My neighbors are freaked out, right now. My subdivision was built in the late 70s/early 80s, and it's very common to see people out walking dogs, kids playing outside, families on bicycles, etc. It reinforces one of my thoughts about crime and violence: live where the bad stuff doesn't happen all the time, but keep in mind that bad stuff can happen anywhere.
Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
Shepherds_Hook_47
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Sounds like you did pretty good. Anything els could've been bad... have you ever read a book called "Thank God I Had A Gun: True Accounts of Self-Defense" It has several stories of people defensing themselves and ending up with a "Soup kitchen story" from the other party....
http://www.privateerpublications.com/book-tgi.html
Its a pretty good read....
Congrats on staying out of trouble though!
http://www.privateerpublications.com/book-tgi.html
Its a pretty good read....
Congrats on staying out of trouble though!
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
You did well, but this statement didn't make sense and it didn't make sense because there are almost always other options.
1. Like it or not, not intervening is an option. You may not consider it a good or viable option, but in reality, it is an option.
2. Verbals commands. Announce you have called the police. Order them to stop.
3. Draw your gun and make it known. This is a tactically delicate issue, but is an option.
4. Enter the fight without lethal force. I woudn't, but it is an option.
You could have made other choices that would have been for the benefit of YS even if you did not recognize them at the time.
wow6599
Member
Not trying to act like a troll, but WTH? I can think of a dozen situations where I wouldn't think twice about "Getting involved". Never is a pretty strong word........
Good&Fruity
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Heck, I wouldn't even be a good witness. For all I know they cause problems for witnesses. Mind your own business and move on.
If the guy who was getting strangled carried a gun, he would have been able to protect himself. I don't carry a gun to protect the world. I carry a gun to protect myself.
If the guy who was getting strangled carried a gun, he would have been able to protect himself. I don't carry a gun to protect the world. I carry a gun to protect myself.
shootingthebreeze
Member
Just because you have a CPL does not mean you can intervene-that's police work-and calling them was the first right move.
In MI only if you are threatened with deadly force can you defend yourself.
I consider my cell phone my backup plan. So you did well by calling first.
In MI only if you are threatened with deadly force can you defend yourself.
I consider my cell phone my backup plan. So you did well by calling first.
Dirty Bob, you did the right thing and the best possible outcome happened, IMO.
Good&Fruity:
I do not want to pick a fight, but this attitude bothers me. What happened to helping a neighbor out? Calling the police does not put you in harm's way, generally. I could never consciously do nothing. I would have the blood of the victim on my hands forever. I do not condone or condemn intervening physically, but refusing all out is criminal. It is a sad fact in our society that women are raped and murders are committed in plain sight with witnesses, and we as a society do nothing. (If you don't believe me, spend time in inner cities, or just go watch the news.) We stand around and think to ourselves, "I'm glad that's not me, rough day for them." To me this indicates a society of apathy and cowardice. Maybe I have my head in the clouds or was just raised with a different outlook on the life, but I want to think that we are higher than that. This is The High Road, is it not? I understand using force to protect me and my own and being hesitant to get involved in others problems. BUT, in my mind, not calling the police or refusing to cooperate with law enforcement is CRIMINAL! I am not saying to put yourself in harms way, but the apathy with which our society looks at some things is mind boggling.
I hope that we choose the high road and help a neighbor out. There was a time when this never would have been a question, when there would be almost too much help.
Thanks
-Gig 'em-
Good&Fruity:
I do not want to pick a fight, but this attitude bothers me. What happened to helping a neighbor out? Calling the police does not put you in harm's way, generally. I could never consciously do nothing. I would have the blood of the victim on my hands forever. I do not condone or condemn intervening physically, but refusing all out is criminal. It is a sad fact in our society that women are raped and murders are committed in plain sight with witnesses, and we as a society do nothing. (If you don't believe me, spend time in inner cities, or just go watch the news.) We stand around and think to ourselves, "I'm glad that's not me, rough day for them." To me this indicates a society of apathy and cowardice. Maybe I have my head in the clouds or was just raised with a different outlook on the life, but I want to think that we are higher than that. This is The High Road, is it not? I understand using force to protect me and my own and being hesitant to get involved in others problems. BUT, in my mind, not calling the police or refusing to cooperate with law enforcement is CRIMINAL! I am not saying to put yourself in harms way, but the apathy with which our society looks at some things is mind boggling.
I hope that we choose the high road and help a neighbor out. There was a time when this never would have been a question, when there would be almost too much help.
Thanks
-Gig 'em-
Well three men have now spoken out loud on their views of this,which is very much the opposite of most others.
I am in agreement with wow6599,amprecon,and Gig 'em.
Glad everything worked out and the OP did not have to use his firearm and yellow shirt was not strangled to death which is an absolutely hideous death.
Any of you ever seen the death face of a strangled victim??
I am in agreement with wow6599,amprecon,and Gig 'em.
Glad everything worked out and the OP did not have to use his firearm and yellow shirt was not strangled to death which is an absolutely hideous death.
Any of you ever seen the death face of a strangled victim??
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Dirty Bob
Member
One more thing:
I didn't know any of these three. For all I know, they're from out of the neighborhood and the one was chased there by the other two. I'm pretty darned sure they don't live where the incident took place.
I was 100% in the dark as to who everybody was and what was going on. That raises the chance of misunderstanding and doing the wrong thing pretty high.
This discussion has helped me. It's tough to watch violence occur without trying to help, but it's pretty much all we can do unless we're darned sure we want to "own" the outcome.
All my best,
Dirty Bob
I didn't know any of these three. For all I know, they're from out of the neighborhood and the one was chased there by the other two. I'm pretty darned sure they don't live where the incident took place.
I was 100% in the dark as to who everybody was and what was going on. That raises the chance of misunderstanding and doing the wrong thing pretty high.
This discussion has helped me. It's tough to watch violence occur without trying to help, but it's pretty much all we can do unless we're darned sure we want to "own" the outcome.
All my best,
Dirty Bob
Another action that might be considered after/while calling 911 - point camera at the scene and yell "this is all on video". That action would be somewhere between calling 911 and entering the fray with pepper spray, in terms of level of involvement and braveness required. It would also make you a far better witness, if your phone actually had a working video camera. In this case, the OP made the best possible choice - some other circumstance may require further involvement.
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answerguy
Member
random thoughts:
If all you had was the video camera and the bad guys decided to go after you I could see that being a bad situation.
How do you know who is trying to kill who and why. It could be a Dad strangling a rapist. Or one drug dealer trying to kill another drug dealer.
How does anyone fell about a warning shot in this case? It seems like they might not here you saying "I have a gun!". But a gun shot would get there attention.
If all you had was the video camera and the bad guys decided to go after you I could see that being a bad situation.
How do you know who is trying to kill who and why. It could be a Dad strangling a rapist. Or one drug dealer trying to kill another drug dealer.
How does anyone fell about a warning shot in this case? It seems like they might not here you saying "I have a gun!". But a gun shot would get there attention.
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Dirty Bob
Member
I think a video recording would have been a good idea. There were plenty of people around within moments, and I hope someone did record it.
I'm against warning shots. If you don't have reason to shoot to defend yourself, why are you shooting off a gun in the city limits? I think a warning shot could result in someone calling the police on the shooter as a "bad guy".
Regards,
Dirty Bob
I'm against warning shots. If you don't have reason to shoot to defend yourself, why are you shooting off a gun in the city limits? I think a warning shot could result in someone calling the police on the shooter as a "bad guy".
Regards,
Dirty Bob
bruzer
Member
Dirty Bob,
I feel you did everything right. Thank you,
Mike
I feel you did everything right. Thank you,
Mike
langenc
Member
You did well!!
Had the situation continuedyou could have touched a couple off-into the ground. Might have been better than shooting the strangler. Might not have worked.
Had the situation continuedyou could have touched a couple off-into the ground. Might have been better than shooting the strangler. Might not have worked.
First off, I concur with most of the replies here, you did very well with what you were involved in.
I tend to lean in the direction of firing my weapon only in defense of me or my family. There may be exceptions to this, but until the time comes, who knows. In our litigious society, you could lose everything you have worked and saved for, even if you're not charged in criminal court. I don't like it, but that's the world we live in.
I tend to lean in the direction of firing my weapon only in defense of me or my family. There may be exceptions to this, but until the time comes, who knows. In our litigious society, you could lose everything you have worked and saved for, even if you're not charged in criminal court. I don't like it, but that's the world we live in.
MachIVshooter
Member
I have these things, they actually work really well (there are good and bad ones, don't buy the $15 model). Just make sure on a regular basis that it is charged, as it's easy to turn on by accident.
When you have a digital witness, the other guy's words count for nothing. Saved my butt in a domestic situation once.
Even if you have to drop it in a quarrel, it's still got audio recording.
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scaatylobo
Member
from retired LEO
I am happy that you took no action,not happy that you started to approach without any knowledge as to who was who.
If you can 'learn' that you are able to deal out lethal force = then 'learn' to watch a possible lethal confrontation and NOT get involved without FULL knowledge of all the facts.
AND remember,the second after you fire a shot = YOUR LIFE HAS CHANGED forever.
prepare yourself for all the facts involved in that and after wrapping your head around it,you might think a few more moments before worrying about the 'possible' death of strangers.
There was a famous shootout involving the FBI during the 1980's [ known as the Miami shootout ].
It was witnessed by more than a few marked police units,they took NO action as they didnt know who to shoot or why.
My not so humble opinion s'all.
I am happy that you took no action,not happy that you started to approach without any knowledge as to who was who.
If you can 'learn' that you are able to deal out lethal force = then 'learn' to watch a possible lethal confrontation and NOT get involved without FULL knowledge of all the facts.
AND remember,the second after you fire a shot = YOUR LIFE HAS CHANGED forever.
prepare yourself for all the facts involved in that and after wrapping your head around it,you might think a few more moments before worrying about the 'possible' death of strangers.
There was a famous shootout involving the FBI during the 1980's [ known as the Miami shootout ].
It was witnessed by more than a few marked police units,they took NO action as they didnt know who to shoot or why.
My not so humble opinion s'all.
Remo223
member
option 4 would be my first impulse. In fact, I would've done so in the OP's example even before calling the cops. A garden hose around someone's neck is a serious thing. The guy already asked for help when he requested the cops be called.
You don't have to shoot the guy(unless he's hulk hogan or something) to make him ease up on the garden hose. I would've been there in 2 seconds and hoping and praying that just the sight of me running towards him would make him release the hose. And if he releases the hose then turns on me, GOOD!. I know how to retreat and doing so would give the victim time to retreat as well. Also there's always the gun in my holster just in case retreating doesn't work out so well.
Jim NE
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I think you did GREAT. I personally think your actions should serve as a template for what you (and everyone else) should do if it happens again.
I'm glad to hear about people who carry a P11. I bought one recently and I'm quite pleased with it so far.
MachIVshooter
Member
$45-$60 for one of the decent ones, and I'd suggest upgrading the micro SD card. They'll run 1-1/2 to 2 hours on a full charge. Pretty decent audio and image quality, and much more discreet than using a cell phone. I've had mine for about a year and a half, hanging on my keychain, and it still functions great, despite the abuse. Like I said, though, check it regularly (like, daily) to make sure you didn't turn it on in your pocket and run the battery down.
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