Wolf SR Primers from Wideners

[angryfatcat]

I picked up a couple of thousand wolf primers from Wideners the other week ( QQQSR223 KVB-223M SMALL RIFLE (Hotter primer 5.56 loads)) and I've ran into an interesting problem with them.

I did a test load of 100 rounds off .223 with the wolf primers and H335 using a fairly standard load recipe. Out of the 100 test rounds, we had 5 that were FTFs - all with good heavy strikes.

When I finally got to pulling the rounds apart this is what I found.

I've never seen this before. It looks like the primer fired, but was unable to ignite all the powder and fizzled out. The hard clump of powder burned when exposed to flame, but not as vigorously as the remaining powder. I'm reasonably sure it's not the powder. The same jug/lot of powder was working fine with CCI primers I loaded just a few days ago. Is this just a poor quality primer from wolf?

 

[mizer67]

Don't use those primers with H335 / WC844.

It's been reported many places that they have a hard time igniting this powder. Use extruded powders for the best chance of not having FTFs.

 

[Crucial]

I'm curious what lot number your primers are. I had the same experience with the same primers (KVB-223M) bought from wideners in the same time frame. I had 4 FTFs in my first 100 rounds using H335. I have also noticed that they have a delayed ignition. You can feel a definite click - bang.

One other thing I noticed with the primers is that the compound in the primer is mixed between green and copper colored. My lot number is 05-10

 

[Chief 0652]

Wolf SRM Primers

I bought a bunch of Wolf Small Rifle Magnum Primers. Wideners recommended the Magnums due to the harder cups. I've shot several thousand with 748, AA2460, Reloader 10 and Reloader 15 with no problems. The primer purchase was several years ago. I've also used SP and LP with no problems. I'd buy them again, but couldn't find them and bought other brands.

 

[dsm]

Nothing new with Wolf...I have a lot from 2009 that produced several FTF and hang fires. Tried the primers in 2 custom Panda's and a custom XP-100 with a Tubb firing pin spring. I won't use them nor will I buy more Wolf. CCi works well for me.

 

[Henry45]

Weird... I've had some Wolf KVB223M SR primers... have loaded a few thousand of them and not had any issues whatsoever.. Shooting 5.56 in a S&W MP and Armalites. Maybe I haven't gotten far enough into them, but have shot and loaded probably 3-5K...

 

[ole farmerbuck]

From a while back

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498700&highlight=yellow+powder

 

[joustin]

I have 10k of those primers left and have used 2-3k already with WC844 and never had any issues. Same with Varget, CFE223 and commercial H335.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

 

[kerreckt]

I have used 10k+/- of the Wolf small rifle .223 Rem primers with no problems. This has been with WC844, CFE223, RL10, X-Terminator, IMR4895, 748, H335, Varget and probably some others I can't recall, right now. Not a single dud, failure to ignite.....nothing. These primers are excellent in my experience.

 

[Walkalong]

I bought these

QQQSRM KVB-5.56M SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM PRIMERS

and have had no problems with the few I have used. I bought 10K at $14 per 1K on 10/19/2012.

These are the "harder cup" primers, not "hotter", primers. Mag referring to the cup, not the mix. I don't know why they did it this way, as it confuses folks.

 

[GLOOB]

I gave Wolf 223 primers a try nearly two years ago. Through a 1k box, I had 1 primer-related FTF. It was with 24.0 H335 under a 55gr SP, if that matters.

Not bad, but I'm still waiting on my first failure using CCI or Winchester primers.

 

[Crucial]

Have any of you noticed the multi colored compound on the primers that are working fine? It easy to see when you slide the tray out of the box.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Are we talking Wolf primers or Tulammo primers?

 

[Reefinmike]

I bought these and have had no problems with the few I have used. I bought 10K at $14 per 1K on 10/19/2012.

These are the "harder cup" primers, not "hotter", primers. Mag referring to the cup, not the mix. I don't know why they did it this way, as it confuses folks.

I wish I did the same. for months I had planned on buying a small boatload(15-20k) day after xmas... well, doodey hit the spinney thing on the ceiling and ruined that but I still managed to get 5k tula srp and 5k tula spp from PV. Ive heard tula srp are the same as wolf? copper cup with a light green primer paper. Im using them for pistol loads and they all go bang.

 

[Crucial]

Wolf NCSR-.223 or KVB-223M primers.

They are brass colored cups with green and copper colored compound.

 

[OleReb]

I bought 5k Wolf primers about 6 months after obumer got elected the first time and ended up throwing them all out due to FTF's,mine also had good strikes. They werent all bad but it was enough to make me discard them.

 

[dsm]

Yep, hit or miss on imported primers. Certainly not consistent, that's for sure. In all the years of reloading, since 1990, I've never had a problem with American made primers.

 

[A Pause for the Coz]

Wow man.. I have loaded and shot more than a few thousand 223's w/ H335 and WC844 and wolf primers.
Been very happy with the results.
I musta got a good batch of primers.

The only issues I have had similar to this has been in lighter loads of ball powders not igniting.
I know BLC-2 like a full case or it will leave embers.

 

[dagger dog]

Some reloading manuals state they use magnum primers with all ball powder loads for rifles.

I've shot 1000 + Wolf large pistol primers only problems was they were difficult to fully seat, had to radius the edge on my Winchester brass and that "cured the "problem".

The squib loads or failure to fire loads I have had have been with Winchester LP which I was trying to use in 45 Colt and H110-W296 which is a ball powder (harder to ignite) and a lighter than spec load (my fault) and CCI bench rest small rifle in 22 Hornet (3 of 1000) which in my book was a bad batch .

 

[45_auto]

I'm like Walkalong, I stocked up on the Wolf primers for $14/K. Looks like I've got about 40K of them left, I've gone through at least that many. I've been using them rather than my Winchester and CCI.



I haven't used any of the KVB-223M (supposedly harder cups for AR15's) yet, still got a huge stock of factory 223. However, I have been using the KVB-223 small rifle primers in pistol loads for the last year or so. I use them in all my small pistol calibers (9mm, 357, 38 Special) and have gone through about 20K with zero failures, although that is with pistol powders not rifle powders.

I've also gone through more than 20K of their large pistol primers in 45ACP, 45 Colt, and 44 Magnum with no failures.

They don't seat quite as smoothly in the Dillon 650 as the equivalent Winchesters, the Wolf cups seem to be harder. I've probably had a dozen that you could feel didn't seat correctly, and were mangled at the priming station. Could be catching on the corner of the primer pocket as dagger dog stated, I've never touched the pockets on pistol brass.

 

[dsm]

The difficulty seating Wolf primers is because they are a couple tenths larger in diameter. I bet if you have been using Wolf primers in a particular lot of brass and decide to shoot CCi 450s or Fed 205M, your primer pockets will be pretty darn loose.

Measure the diameter with a quality micrometer that reads in tenths and compare them to other brands. There was a chart floating around awhile ago where someone measured a bunch of primers including Wolf showing the diameter down to tenths.

If anyone is local to my area(SW PA), I'd be glad to trade almost 6k of Wolf SRM primers for 3 or 4K of CCi 450's!

 

[Crucial]

I can't say that I've noticed any issues seating the wolf KVB-223M. I broke open some other bricks and these are all the same copper colored compound so I am going to load up some of these and see if I get better results.

 

[45_auto]

You think the thin Wolf primer cup will stretch the primer pocket a few tenths? Or does the primer pocket squeeze the thin primer cup diameter down a few tenths?

This being the internet, you can pretty much find someone saying anything you want. Over on The Firing Line forums they seem to think that the Wolfs are about half a thousandth smaller than CCI:

Fired a few of the wolf primed 5.56 reloads last week in an the AR. No problems. I'm using the small rifle magnum primers.

Measured them, they seem to be .002 shorter than CCI and around .0005 smaller in diameter. They slip into the case with less resistance and are a little more recessed into the pocket.

If I think about it I'll try some CCI or Winchester primers one day in the brass that's been fired with the Wolf primers and see how they fit.

 

[hentown]

I use Wolf small rifle primers that I bought from Widener's for both 9mm and .223 reloading. I don't get misfires with either, and that's with striker-fired Glocks for the 9mm.

 

[dagger dog]

45 auto

I think it's a combo of the primer and brass. Bought some new Remington nickel plated 45 Colt, was going to load those up with my Wolf LP's, since I had the trouble with the Win. brass thought the nickel plating would make it even harder to seat them, WRONG they slid right in like butter ???

The next time I have the Wolf primers out I'm going to check the edge of the cup under high magnification and see if they are burred or the edge is rolled outwards.

I would think the case head primer pocket area would be a lot harder to deform and couldn't imagine something as small and thin as a primer cup being able to swage the pocket larger, may happen if the cup was a solid piece, but I'll bet my money on the cup being swaged by the case head.

I'll have to do some before and after measurements of the fired and non fired LPP Wolf cups, fired in different brass.