Worn out polygonal rifling?

[silicosys4]

Hello,
This week I was going to take possession of a cz82 I had purchased at auction, when I took a look down the bore I was surprised to see not the polygonal rifling that I was used to seeing, but rather, a smooth shiny tube. There was NO evidence that any sort of rifling had even ever been there.

I know when traditional rifling is "worn out" there is still rifling visible, it's just not up to the task at hand anymore. This pistol had a literal smooth bore. My FFA said they had seen nothing like it before and they strongly recommended that I not complete the transfer as "a smooth bore under 18 inches is illegal".

Has anyone seen a worn out polygonal barrel pistol, and does a polygonal barrel wear to the point that its a shiny, smooth tube? Or was this some sort of anomaly?

 

[ironworkerwill]

I don't know how many thousands of rds it would take to wear out a polygonal. I had a 357 Desert Eagle that was shot -a-LOT! Everything was wearing out but the barrel. Maybe someone didn't rifle the barrel.

 

[WardenWolf]

The CZ-82's polygonal rifling is hard to see. My friend's was mistaken for a smoothbore by a gunsmith. It's there, though. Trust me. The CZ-82's barrel is chrome-lined. It would have to wear through the chrome before it could make it smoothbore, so the very fact that it's shiny means it's fine.

 

[Stringfellow]

As far as I understand it, there is no such thing as a worn out polygonal CZ82 barrel.

 

[silicosys4]

I have polygonal barrel pistols. They have visible rifling patterns in the barrel, even if they aren't visible as grooves and lands. This one literally looked like the inside of a smooth pipe. There were NO reflections in a concentric circular pattern, no spiraling deposits. It stumped my FFL to the point they refused to complete the transfer because I didn't have the NFA paperwork for a smooth barreled shotgun under 18" in barrel length.
It would be too bad if my FFL didn't know what they were talking about and I sent a perfectly good pistol back to the guy, but that bore didn't look right to either of us.

 

[WardenWolf]

The CZ-82 looks like a smooth pipe. That's just the way it is. Like I said, a gunsmith himself thought it was a smoothbore. The way you tell is by looking closely at the crown. You'll be able to see it's not quite a true circle, but a polygon.

 

[silicosys4]

Lame. Pictures of cz-82 bores that I can find online pretty much back up what you are saying. I'm going to have to have a talk with my FFL about how they just cost me almost $300 because they don't know what they are talking about.

 

[jmr40]

Shoot the gun before you reach any conclusions.

 

[silicosys4]

The gun was never transferred into my name, it was sent back instead since my FFL was too leery of transferring what we thought was a smoothbarrel under 18" in length to me, since I don't have NFA paperwork. The guy stated in his auction it was a "no returns" gun,
so as far as I know, I am basically S.O.L., out both gun and money order.
bummer, it had a much better trigger than the p64 it was going to join.

 

[ljnowell]

Another thing, if someone really leaded up the bore bad it can look pretty much rifling-less. However, its usually not mistaken with a shiney clean bore.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have polygonal barrel pistols. They have visible rifling patterns in the barrel, even if they aren't visible as grooves and lands. This one literally looked like the inside of a smooth pipe.

You wouldn't happen to be comparing it to a Glock barrel would you?

A true polygonal barrel's rifling is very subtle and it would be even more so if it were chrome lined. It should have looked something like this

 

[silicosys4]

I have an HK45 with polygonal rifling, and a kahr pm40 and pm9 with polygonal rifling. Both brands have visible rifling patterns. The picture you posted has visible rifling patterns in that you can see the spiral pattern down the bore. The cz82 had nothing. It had no spiraling pattern at all, no refraction of light in a spiral pattern, nothing.

Here are a few pictures attached that explain what I was seeing, and these are the pictures I'm using as a reference that I was mistaken in believing the barrel was either shot out or not rifled. You can see that if there are visible rifling marks, they are VERY faint. The first barrel is pretty much what the one I saw looked like, except you can kind of see the rifling in that picture. The barrel I saw came with no discernible spiraling marks or polygonal bore profile. It really did look like the inside of a smooth, round, semi-polished pipe. All in all, I would have liked to have shot it, to see the results.

 

[ku4hx]

Some of it looks like the "slick" bore on the right here : http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...VfUdmTOYjc9QS9r4CQDw&ved=0CD8Q9QEwAg&dur=3298

 

[bigfatdave]

That's what a CZ82 barrel looks like

Ram a jag through with a tight patch (use two patches) and watch it spin ... magic!

Sending it back was a dumb move, don't patronize that FFL again and tell them why.

 

[ku4hx]

That's what a CZ82 barrel looks like

Ram a jag through with a tight patch (use two patches) and watch it spin ... magic!

Sending it back was a dumb move, don't patronize that FFL again and tell them why.

+1 ...

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I thought I had bought a smoothbore CZ-82 when I first picked one up. The barrel looks that "different" from most barrels. It shot very well, however.

 

[wally]

The CZ-82's polygonal rifling is hard to see.

It's called "oval" rifling the bore is an ellipse that rotates as it moves down the barrel -- as the cleaning jag test mentioned above will clearly illustrate.

 

[OilyPablo]

The gun was never transferred into my name, it was sent back instead since my FFL was too leery of transferring what we thought was a smoothbarrel under 18" in length to me, since I don't have NFA paperwork. The guy stated in his auction it was a "no returns" gun, so as far as I know, I am basically S.O.L., out both gun and money order.

That's stupidest thing I've read today, but it's only 6:30AM here. I would either have the 'smith "retrieve" said gun or pay you for HIS mistake. I only deal with 'smiths who know their limits. Honest gunsmiths don't make stuff up.

Yeah the CZ-82 is a shotgun. Wow.

 

[4season]

Where did you find this FFL? Anyone around guns for more than a week knows that a CZ82 has the smallest rifling known. Anyone can type CZ82 rifling in google and in the top 10 results 6 specifically say Polygonal rifling looks smoothbore. I would demand my gun or money back from this idiot. They are there to do a background check, not to make uninformed stupid decisions.

 

[5-SHOTS]

Test fire it and see what appens. Many CZ82 owners reports hard to see (at best) rifling but apparently the accuracy doesn't suffer

 

[silicosys4]

Where did you find this FFL? Anyone around guns for more than a week knows that a CZ82 has the smallest rifling known. Anyone can type CZ82 rifling in google and in the top 10 results 6 specifically say Polygonal rifling looks smoothbore. I would demand my gun or money back from this idiot. They are there to do a background check, not to make uninformed stupid decisions.

No insults please. They are personal friends, are good people who made a mistake in and amongst many helpful deeds. They have always done right by me. I didn't start this thread to pin a target on anyone.

 

[Stringfellow]

No insults please. They are personal friends, are good people who made a mistake in and amongst many helpful deeds. They have always done right by me. I didn't start this thread to pin a target on anyone.

OK then. Focus on winning the war not a battle.
1) We established that the bore was actually what was to be expected.
2) The FFL is actually a stand-up character. Then the only thing left is:
3) Make whatever phone calls and send whatever letters are necessary to get that pistol back, even if it means spending a bit more money.

It is in everyone's interests to complete the sale--you may just have to do a bit of leg work to get all parties in line. But it will be worth your time.

Let us know how you make out...

 

[hentown]

I have polygonal barrel pistols. They have visible rifling patterns in the barrel, even if they aren't visible as grooves and lands. This one literally looked like the inside of a smooth pipe. There were NO reflections in a concentric circular pattern, no spiraling deposits. It stumped my FFL to the point they refused to complete the transfer because I didn't have the NFA paperwork for a smooth barreled shotgun under 18" in barrel length.
It would be too bad if my FFL didn't know what they were talking about and I sent a perfectly good pistol back to the guy, but that bore didn't look right to either of us.

The fact that your FFL thinks that a pistol with a shot-out barrel would be catagorized as a short-barreled shotgun tells me all I need to know about your FFL. Give the guy an Otis Quick-Scoring I.Q. Test. I guarantee you he won't break room temperature.

 

[gearhead]

I'll give the FFL the benefit of the doubt and say that as a friend he probably thought he was doing you a favor by sparing you from having to accept a gun with a bad barrel. So show him this and have him eat crow, contact the seller himself, and either have the seller re-ship the gun at the FFL's expense or forego the charge for the transfer.

 

[TennJed]

I'll give the FFL the benefit of the doubt and say that as a friend he probably thought he was doing you a favor by sparing you from having to accept a gun with a bad barrel. So show him this and have him eat crow, contact the seller himself, and either have the seller re-ship the gun at the FFL's expense or forego the charge for the transfer.

Not sure if I can agree with that. Knowing that the OP Ina's already paid $300 and can't return it, all he did was cost the guy money. I would rather have something than nothing. A worn out barrel is better than no barrel