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Would .22 wmr make a good self defense round?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Min, May 21, 2003.

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  1. Min

    Min Member

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    I was eyeing those Heritage Rough Rider revolvers that sell for just above $100, and they come with replaceable cylinders just like the Single Six.

    In a 3" barrel, they make for a handy little gun. So, would .22 winchester magnums be good for self defense?
     
  2. firestar

    firestar member

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    Probably not the best choice but I would not feel unarmed with a .22mag revolver.
     
  3. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    A .22 magnum out of a 3" barrel will probably make less energy and fps than a .22 long rifle out of a 19" rifle barrel.

    That said, it will do better than out of a NAA .22 mag mini revolver that alot of folks use for CCW.

    Also keep in mind quality .22 mag rounds are generally MORE expensive than decent 9mm or .38 special.
     
  4. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    CCI MaxiMag +Vs (or the TNT variant) will pull 1,200fps from a 2" tube, 1,400fps from a 4".

    They'll hurt.

    But, I'm not a fan of the Rough Rider. It's rough all right :rolleyes:. And that bizarre safety is just...what the hell were they thinking?

    I guess you could carry it "cocked and locked" :eek:.
     
  5. makdaddy03

    makdaddy03 member

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    Hey, I also have the Heritage Rough Rider 22lr/22mag. I wouldnt use it for selfdefense. Its more of a plinker and pest control gun. Mine has been very fun to shoot. If I were to be forced to use it in a selfdefense situation I woundnt feel under gunned either. These babies pack a punch & hits very hard. But its a single action cowboy type gun. Heritage also makes a 9mm called the Stealth which is cheap but very good for self defense. I would recommend the Stealth.;) Have fun with the Rough Rider.
     
  6. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    The thing about the Heritage is that for carry, your best bet is to load five-up with an empty under the hammer, and leave that bizarre manual safety OFF. The only time you'd engage the safety would be during loading, to prevent the "going off half cocked" problem.

    The other carry option would be six-up, safety on, but then to fire you have to both cock it and sweep the safety off. OR go cocked'n'locked (carry it *cocked* but with the safety on, sweep safety off to fire) but that's just nuts.

    The Ruger system using an internal, automatic safety is far better for defensive carry of an SA.
     
  7. Feanaro

    Feanaro Member

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    In general I would suggest anything bigger than the .22. There are quite a few cases of it bouncing off people's heads. Though on the bright side it can do the same inside someone. Still, it's so... small. It is better than nothing but if you can afford it go bigger.
     
  8. gharsh

    gharsh Member

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    Go for it. You could get two Rough Riders and carry the extra cylinder for quick reloads . Then practice, practice, practice ;) . I've got one and love to take it out for squirrels. Easy to carry and with the magnum option makes it fun to shoot.

    I've seen where they've come out with one in .17. Nice starter if you're looking for something fun to shoot. Needs longer grips though.
     
  9. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    The better 22*MAGNUM* rounds will not bounce off of somebody's skull.
     
  10. Kor

    Kor Member

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    Having owned(briefly) a Rough Rider, I'd have to say that trying to swap loaded cylinders would be significantly slower than conventional reloading with the cylinder in place. Plus, I've read of at least one NAA mini-revolver owner who had an AD when his loaded spare cylinder fell out of his shirt pocket and landed base-first on a rock, setting off a .22LR round.

    That said, I'd think that a .22WMR rifle would be a dandy home-defense piece for the elderly or physically frail, especially if it had a 10-rd magazine that could be removed/replaced more quickly than, say, that of the Ruger 10/22M. I think that Grendel(the predecessor of Kel-Tec) used to make a pistol-gripped, plastic-framed carbine that fed from 30-rd mags - something like that should do nicely.
     
  11. Min

    Min Member

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    My question is focused more on the round than the gun. I would think .22 wmr would have some advantages over centerfire calibers like the .32, .380, and .38 Special (non +P) in that it is smaller, and have less recoil. Also, does anyone know if the .22 magnum is actually more powerful in muzzle energy than the above listed centerfire rounds?

    If the Rough Rider is too clumsy for self defense shooting, I might think about a Smith and Wesson .22 magnum revolver instead.
     
  12. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    NAA has done extensive velocity testing and publishes the results, in 22LR, 22Mag, 32ACP and 380ACP.

    To understand the data, you need to know that a Black Widow is always a 2" revolver and the MiniMaster is a 4" revolver.

    Other tests over the years have shown that NAA's numbers in general are very honest. Even if you don't have one of their guns, this page is still a prime resource for mousegun ammo performance:

    http://www.naaminis.com/naaveloc.html

    You'll also find a table of bullet energies linked from there, or jump to it at:

    http://www.naaminis.com/energy.html

    This will tell you that a 30grain round doing 1,200fps has 96ft/lbs of energy and at 1,400fps from a 4" barrel, 131ft/lbs. You'll get even more from most Rough Riders or Ruger Single Sixes.

    The 32ACPs out of Guardian/Kel-Tec class barrels, are generally around 70grains pulling 850fps for 112ft/lbs energy. The hottest involve a 73grainer at 900fps, for about 130ft/lbs.

    So out of a Rough Rider, Ruger or MiniMaster, the 22Mag is clearly in the same ballpark as the *best* 32ACPs, better in the 6" or longer tubes. In the Single Six 9" barrel, guesstimate 1,600fps and you're at 171ft/lbs - 38Spl territory. Even out of a 2", it's inside of the 32ACP performance range.
     
  13. J Miller

    J Miller Member

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    Altho I have no doubt that a .22 Mag round would work as a SD round in a pinch I wouldn't choose it for that.
    Here's why. Hearing damage. The .22 mag is very ear splitting loud. Inside a building where a SD situation would likely to to occur you would be deafened.
    Some might say that in such a situation you wouldn't notice it, but I disagree.
    I have severe hi-frequency hearing loss. A good portion of it from shooting .22 mags from a Colt Peacemaker in the late 70's. I did have hearing protection, but it did not provide adiquate protection against the severe crack of the .22 mag.

    For SD, usually done without hearing protection, I would choose a non- magnum of sufficient power.
     
  14. makdaddy03

    makdaddy03 member

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    What......? Just kidding.;) They are loud little boogers arent they?:)
     
  15. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    For home defense, I absolutely agree. My bedside gun is a 38.

    But as a deep-cover, last-ditch-and-always-on-you backup for street carry, the Black Widow or similar really fits the bill.

    And you can practice with it in 22LR subsonic :).
     
  16. swifter

    swifter Member

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    I think this falls into the "better than a busted bottle, not as good as a cheap hatchet" catagory...:what: I really believe I'd want something a lot more...ah...exuberant. And that I could reload faster.
    Tom
     
  17. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Yes--out of a rifle.:D

    Seriously, I think the .22WMR is optimized for rifle-length barrels (which is why it is so loud in short-barreled handguns). If someone came out with a .22WMR round with a faster-burning powder optimized for short-barreled handguns, it might be a better choice.
     
  18. Doc

    Doc Member

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    Compared to what?

    yep.
    Now as a 3rd gun, or as the alternative to a boot knife, or if it was THE ONLY firearm which would fit inside my four cigar case,
    why not?

    precisely!
    but why mousegun at all ??

    Remember, guns are supposed to be COMMFORTING, not comfortable.

    In my world, the WORST thing would be to actually have to shoot someone, and have it not work!!
     
  19. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    It is a superb SD round for animals 4 kg and less.
     
  20. Ala Dan

    Ala Dan Member in memoriam

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    .22 WMR for defense?

    Greeting's All,

    The way I see it, having even a NAA .22 WMR with a
    1-1/8" barrel is better than having NO gun at all!


    That's what I carry as a back-up to my much beloved
    .45 caliber West German SIG-Sauer P220A.:uhoh:

    Best Wishes,
    Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
     
  21. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    If it can blow through skull bone most of the time, it's a real gun. Doesn't matter how small it is.

    The number one best use of a mousegun is as a "front pocket surprise". Some idiot wants your wallet, you pull the "wallet" out and give him a 67th trimester abortion with it, before he even realizes it ain't a wallet.

    It's also a last-ditch "get the hell offa me" backup, if necessary while screwed into his ear or nostril.

    It's not a long-range plinking tool, with the possible exception of the MiniMaster, which groups better than a lot of service autos :).
     
  22. Wildalaska

    Wildalaska member

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    Cant think of any other scenarios when you would need a gun! I have it with me 24/7 in my pocket, no matter how big the pocket!

    WildmousegunsruleAlaska
     
  23. caz223

    caz223 Member

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    After seeing what .22 mag/.22 hornet do to a vest, I would use them in self defense.
    However, I also saw what .41 mag/10mm does to a vest (and it's backstop!!), and it's very comforting.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2003
  24. MR.G

    MR.G Member

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    I prefer something bigger. When I can, a .357 is with me. There are many times that I need to carry very discretely. That is when I carry a NAA .22 magnum with a 1-5/8" barrel. Feel comfortable with the .22 magnum as a close up defense gun.
     
  25. MJRW

    MJRW Member

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    Jim,

    You've demonstrated both knowledge and interest in the .22 mag so I was wondering what you thought. If you recall, my fiance has one as her home defense piece. We loaded it with Federal 50 grain which is shown on their website as moving at 1650 fps. I believe I was told their tests were either out of 4" or 6" barrels (can anyone confirm this?). I was wondering your thoughts on the heavier/slightly slower bullet vs the lighter/slightly faster bullet. The platform is a Taurus Tracker with 6.5" barrel.

    WildinsertrandomsuperfluouswordsherebutthistimeitwasaboutNAAMinisandyouvemadethiscommentseveraltimessoyoupeakedmycuriousityalaska,

    "Cant think of any other scenarios when you would need a gun! I have it with me 24/7 in my pocket, no matter how big the pocket!"

    Are you trolling, unimaginitive, ignoring real events, or just never have lived in a city?
     
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