9 rounds of 22 Mag for self defense

You’re just a breath if fresh air everywhere you go, aren’t you?

I can tell you that I have bought thousands of 22 magnum rounds over the years and the only misfires I have ever had were some old rounds that were kept in a storage facility that had no heating or cooling in a humid location for a few years that that i was given. This was ammo bought in the 70’s and given to me in the early 80’s. A couple of rounds out of a couple of hundred.
Your friend had a problem with one batch of ammo so it’s all bad, huh?
That wouldn’t be enough for me to say “all 22 magnum ammo is as unreliable as .22 LR.”
Well aren't you a ray of sunshine with everything you touch, eh?

I can also tell you that internet stories are fishing tales from those appealing to the laws of averages as an authority figure on said subject.

Yes, he did and I was there, not hUh either. However you go ahead and appeal to yourself as the subject matter authority and believe what you want, I honestly don't care either way.

That would be enough to know that both 22LR from own experiences and his 22 magnum experience while I was there, was enough to get me where we are right now. You do know how opinions are formed, right?
 
Well aren't you a ray of sunshine with everything you touch, eh?

I can also tell you that internet stories are fishing tales from those appealing to the laws of averages as an authority figure on said subject.

Yes, he did and I was there, not hUh either. However you go ahead and appeal to yourself as the subject matter authority and believe what you want, I honestly don't care either way.

That would be enough to know that both 22LR from own experiences and his 22 magnum experience while I was there, was enough to get me where we are right now. You do know how opinions are formed, right?

Hah, big no difference in the priming system.

Your opinion. Not mine.
 
Think a 9 shot 4in revolver with Gold Dots in 22 mag would be a good defensive weapon for ccw?
And yea I know there are better calibers for this.
But that's all my friend has, he just got his ccw.
I believe it is enough to stop a threat and survive for another day.
Especially at distances most shootings occur. I believe the 22 WMR is so underrated for a defensive round

There is no way to predict if any caliber or number of rounds will be enough for a particular self defense incident because there are too many variables. People have a way of not reacting how you think they will. They don't always run when they should and just because you don't want to get shot with a 22 doesn't mean that someone else will even care at the moment. It might be enough and it might not be.

I believe 22 Mag is underrated for a good reason and if it was all I had I would be saving towards something better. But in the meantime I would carry it and train with it and hope that it would be enough.
 
I think you made your point already.
Now I think you just want to massage your ego in an argument.
And you've already made yours by attacking the person and not their message..

Plus you were massaging your own ego into an argument by introducing yourself into this conversation quite harshly and unprovoked, that you yourself made a conscious decision to decide on. That's projecting, by the way.

We're no longer talking about the point of interest, which is the contested reliability of rimfire priming system. You have yourself to blame for that one as well.
 
Best choice he has, but still not a good choice. And while he may be carrying 9 rounds, no reason to believe he will connect with 9 rounds. He may only connect with one, despite firing all nine. That is the reality of gunfights. Does 1 round of .22 mag GD sound like a great stopper to anyone?

As for the revolver double strike capability, that is great with rimfire ammo and after a given round doesn't fire, only 9 more trigger pulls to get back to the round that didn't fire and see if it will fire anew. The question is then what all is happening during that time to get back around to the bad round.
 
As for the revolver double strike capability, that is great with rimfire ammo and after a given round doesn't fire, only 9 more trigger pulls to get back to the round that didn't fire and see if it will fire anew. The question is then what all is happening during that time to get back around to the bad round.

Hopefully the other 8 rounds solve the problem before you need to rely on double-striking a dud.
 
My own experience with .22 WMR shows to to be EXTREMELY reliable.

My first gun was a Marlin 783 bolt action rifle I bought back in 1982. I cannot even begin to say how many thousands of rounds I put through that gun.

I fed it several brands, but the vast majority was CCI Maxi-Mag (loved those plastic boxes), followed by Winchester, then followed by a bit of Federal.

My first pistol was an AMT Automag II. It got fed a steady diet of Winchester .22 WMR.

Out of all that, I had exactly 2 problems with .22 WMR ammunition:

1. A creased cartridge from a box of Winchester (I wrote a letter to Winchester, by the way, and got a free box of ammo for my trouble).

2. A Federal round that was OBVIOUSLY a very hot round (much louder than it should have been and I had to tap the split case out).

But never once have I ever had a .22 WMR round misfire. .22 LR? Occasionally, but NEVER a .22 Magnum.

Anecdotal evidence based on my own experience, to be sure, but my own experience nonetheless.
There is a significant difference in reliable ignition with .22 in a revolver, likely due to reduced power springs to not make trigger pulls 50 lbs. You have only mentioned a Marlin rifle and a semi auto pistol, not a revolver.
 
We're no longer talking about the point of interest, which is the contested reliability of rimfire priming system.

Incorrect. The point of interest is the OP’s original question: “Think a 9 shot 4in revolver with Gold Dots in 22 mag would be a good defensive weapon for ccw?”

@357smallbore
If this is all your friend has then it will have to do. Is it a “good” defensive weapon? That would depend on many factors, but for now I would say it’s probably adequate but I would work towards getting something more suited to SD in at least a .38 Special or 9mm. At least that is my opinion on the matter.
 
Incorrect. The point of interest is the OP’s original question: “Think a 9 shot 4in revolver with Gold Dots in 22 mag would be a good defensive weapon for ccw?”
Incorrect in return then, you went direct at me about another's challenge that 22 magnum is superior in ignition than other rimfires.

If you are going to argue, don't straw man or stretch the goalposts here because the projectile type wasn't the issue being made.
 
There is no way to predict if any caliber or number of rounds will be enough for a particular self defense incident because there are too many variables. People have a way of not reacting how you think they will. They don't always run when they should and just because you don't want to get shot with a 22 doesn't mean that someone else will even care at the moment. It might be enough and it might not be.
Agree.

I would not choose a .22 Rimfire Magnum.
 
I agree. As I said, as a carry gun, it is a niche item for pocket carry as one of convenience and not being optimal. If it was to be a primary belt gun, it is a poor choice. If you must carry a revolver (blah, blah on that), then on your belt a 32 is minimal in some of its stronger iterations or a 38 at least. Of course, there are accommodations for age, etc.
 
Unless you work for an ammo company who makes self-defense-marketed 22WMR ammo, I don't think you really know that; you're just guessing.
I've seen more than enough videos of how .22 LR is made to understand that the same processes and procedures are used to make .22 Mag. What exactly do you think changes in the production processes between .22 LR and .22 Mag?

For discussion's sake, here is a quote from


Now they don't specifically say that they use different manufacturing methods or have better QC, but I bet they do. It would be totally irresponsible for them to market the ammo this way otherwise, and Federal has a great reputation overall as a high quality ammo manufacturer.
Key word here is bet. You don't know, you assume you know based off of marketing statements that do not go into any detail what this "function testing" is, when I hear function testing and cycling in the same sentence that to me sounds like feeding and extraction for a semi auto, which now seeing Walther coming out with a .22 Mag semi auto seems to be the future of the cartridge.

I'm not focusing on semi autos, the OP wants to discuss revolvers so that's what I will stick to for the topic. From all my experiences, .22 Mag in a revolver, regardless of the brand, is no better than .22 LR. The .22 Mag rides the same lines as .22 LR does from cheap crap ammo up to premium stuff and regardless of what the marketing statement says, the manufacturers say that about all their ammo.
 
I've read thru the entire topic and seen some posts by others who claim that they've never had a dud in .22 Magnum, but pointing to the hundreds of rounds of it they've shot going back 20, 30, 40 years.

I'm going to make an assumption here and say that not one person in this topic has ever shot an equal amount of .22 Magnum to what they've shot in a .22 LR obviously because of cost and that we've all shot bricks and bricks of the cheapest .22 LR, had a few dozen duds from some boxes, and some are casting a wide net when they say all .22 LR of any flavor is going to be less reliable than .22 Mag.

There's also an issue where it appears that .22 rimfire (of any kind) is not as well made as it was decades ago, likely because of companies preferring to sacrifice quality for profits and the declining skill, pride of work, and motivation of employees.

My experience has been that I've had nearly as many duds with .22 Mag as I have .22 LR, yet I've shot 10x more .22 LR than I have .22 Mag. Now, all my .22 Mags are single action revolvers with dual cylinders and I've not ever noticed an unusually high dud rate with the .22 LR cylinders beyond what I would consider typical ammo issues, so if I'm not having issues with .22 LR in the SAME REVOLVER, then I cannot assume it's an issue with the revolver when I shoot .22 Mag, thus the only variable is the ammo.

And I'm not going to consider that I have three .22 Mag cylinders that are all faulty or out of spec, but three .22 LR cylinders that are in spec.

Perhaps if I were to purchase a Ruger or S&W .22 Mag revolver I would have better results, less duds, but I do not have an interest in owning a .22 Mag only revolver. I do have on my list a Taurus Tracker with would come with a .22 LR and .22 Mag cylinder, so if I ever get that I will report back the results of it with .22 Mag reliability, but I'm sure if I report issues the kneejerk response will be Taurus is not a quality brand and thus it is clearly a poorly made revolver or cylinder.

Now, the reason I have focused on this issue is because people invariably will pop into a discussion of .22 Mag for defense and say it's more reliable than .22 LR. I don't find that to be true, but one thing is for certain and it's that .22 Mag is more powerful than .22 LR and penetrates deeper, all things that make it better suited for self defense.

But the reliability argument is as suspect as the priming mechanism .22 Mag uses.
 
I've read thru the entire topic and seen some posts by others who claim that they've never had a dud in .22 Magnum, but pointing to the hundreds of rounds of it they've shot going back 20, 30, 40 years.

I'm going to make an assumption here and say that not one person in this topic has ever shot an equal amount of .22 Magnum to what they've shot in a .22 LR obviously because of cost and that we've all shot bricks and bricks of the cheapest .22 LR, had a few dozen duds from some boxes, and some are casting a wide net when they say all .22 LR of any flavor is going to be less reliable than .22 Mag.

There's also an issue where it appears that .22 rimfire (of any kind) is not as well made as it was decades ago, likely because of companies preferring to sacrifice quality for profits and the declining skill, pride of work, and motivation of employees.

My experience has been that I've had nearly as many duds with .22 Mag as I have .22 LR, yet I've shot 10x more .22 LR than I have .22 Mag. Now, all my .22 Mags are single action revolvers with dual cylinders and I've not ever noticed an unusually high dud rate with the .22 LR cylinders beyond what I would consider typical ammo issues, so if I'm not having issues with .22 LR in the SAME REVOLVER, then I cannot assume it's an issue with the revolver when I shoot .22 Mag, thus the only variable is the ammo.

And I'm not going to consider that I have three .22 Mag cylinders that are all faulty or out of spec, but three .22 LR cylinders that are in spec.

Perhaps if I were to purchase a Ruger or S&W .22 Mag revolver I would have better results, less duds, but I do not have an interest in owning a .22 Mag only revolver. I do have on my list a Taurus Tracker with would come with a .22 LR and .22 Mag cylinder, so if I ever get that I will report back the results of it with .22 Mag reliability, but I'm sure if I report issues the kneejerk response will be Taurus is not a quality brand and thus it is clearly a poorly made revolver or cylinder.

Now, the reason I have focused on this issue is because people invariably will pop into a discussion of .22 Mag for defense and say it's more reliable than .22 LR. I don't find that to be true, but one thing is for certain and it's that .22 Mag is more powerful than .22 LR and penetrates deeper, all things that make it better suited for self defense.

But the reliability argument is as suspect as the priming mechanism .22 Mag uses.

A few things . . .

My experience in .22 LR has a 2 decade lead on my experience on .22 WMR. I bought crap rimfire ammo in those first two decades because that's what we poor kids that became working Joes did. And we bought it by the cheapest brick of 500 we could. Each and every time.

By the time I got into .22 WMR, thanks to a shootin' buddy, I bought better .22 LR ammo and better .22 WMR ammo. And I put that ammo into guns that I tuned a bit as needed. My early rimfire guns were store bought, unmodified, maybe lubed correctly, and I sure wasn't the gun "mechanic" that I turned into. I mean, I had to fix intermittent light strikes in a brand new .32 ACP pistol many years ago, and it was the gun's fault not the ammo. Just like my aforementioned Marlin 39AS earlier in the thread, misfires were mainly the gun's fault until I fixed the gun.

Another thing is that I've noticed that .22 WMR ammo has seemed to gotten better in the last 15 to 20 years, while .22 LR seems about the same as it ever was. Considering the tight groups shooting out of rifles at 100 yards and chrony results with deviations getting more consistent, I'd guess that some of this .22 WMR is made very well indeed. Added primer to decrease voids in the rim, better powder measuring, and certainly the better bullets that everyone can see from the outside.

What I'd like to think is the spark of making .22 WMR better was the introduction of .17 HMR. Once the .17 HMR rifles started beating the pants off .22 WMR rifles, ammo makers like Hornady must have figured they could do something about that. And my time behind the trigger with Hornady .22 WMR seems to align with my thoughts on that.

Then there is this situation with revolvers. Which single action revolver do you have that gives you so much trouble with .22 LR and .22 WMR? A good single action revolver should have the hammer mass and swing arc to light off rimfire ammo very well, as long as the ammo is fully seated in the chambers, the cylinder holds the ammo snug to the recoil shield, the firing pin is proper length and the firing pin isn't restricted in its bore.

I've seen centerfire revolvers with mangled firing pin return springs that cause problems with consistent ignition. Not to mention centerfire autoloaders with gooed up firing pin chanels causing the same problem.

If any revolver should naturally be more suspect firing rimfire ammo, it would be a DA/SA or DAO revolver with the short hammer swing when fired in double action. Especially the little j-frames, or even the tiny NAA single action jobs, both with smaller hammers. That's where thorough ammo testing with a particular gun needs to be done. And if it won't light off quality rimfire ammo reliably, then it needs to be repaired or relegated to being a practice/target gun.

I still own a little craptastic Beretta Bobcat that I never could tune enough to reliably fire off the lower grades of .22 LR ammo. Talk about a gun equipped with a tiny hammer with insufficient double action striking force. Truly a single action gun that happens to have a DA/SA trigger.

Having said all of that, my particular low end cartridge limit is .32 ACP and .32 Magnum. And there's a recent thread here at The High Road with a certain manufacturer's gun model having light strike problems with .32 magnum ammo. A gun sold for self defense, no less. Gotta fix it or ditch it.
 
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If that’s all I had, with no means of getting
something else, then yes. I would carry it. Not ideal, but better than not carrying anything at all.

Where you start doesn’t have to be where you finish.
 
[QUOTE="chicharrones, post: 12460865, member: 114639"Another thing is that I've noticed that .22 WMR ammo has seemed to gotten better in the last 15 to 20 years, while .22 LR seems about the same as it ever was. Considering the tight groups shooting out of rifles at 100 yards and chrony results with deviations getting more consistent, I'd guess that some of this .22 WMR is made very well indeed. Added primer to decrease voids in the rim, better powder measuring, and certainly the better bullets that everyone can see from the outside.[/quote]
You're projecting that .22 Magnum uses and has more primer compound to fill the voids, but I've never heard that and can't find any supporting evidence to consider that that is the case, so this is more theory than reality. I have been of the opinion that because of the length of .22 Mag the primer compound has a higher chance of getting stuck in the neck and sometimes never reaches the base where it is then spun into the rim.

As for better powder measuring, that's debatable, what likely has a bigger impact on the lower standard deviations and tighter groups is the bullet not be heel based, better, more consistent crimping, and in general just a better powder being used over .22 LR. The higher quality jacketed, not plated or coated lead bullets, is clearly superior.

What I'd like to think is the spark of making .22 WMR better was the introduction of .17 HMR. Once the .17 HMR rifles started beating the pants off .22 WMR rifles, ammo makers like Hornady must have figured they could do something about that. And my time behind the trigger with Hornady .22 WMR seems to align with my thoughts on that.
I doubt .17 HMR had anything to do with it, but technology improvement in general.

Then there is this situation with revolvers. Which single action revolver do you have that gives you so much trouble with .22 LR and .22 WMR? A good single action revolver should have the hammer mass and swing arc to light off rimfire ammo very well, as long as the ammo is fully seated in the chambers, the cylinder holds the ammo snug to the recoil shield, the firing pin is proper length and the firing pin isn't restricted in its bore.

I've seen centerfire revolvers with mangled firing pin return springs that cause problems with consistent ignition. Not to mention centerfire autoloaders with gooed up firing pin chanels causing the same problem.

If any revolver should naturally be more suspect firing rimfire ammo, it would be a DA/SA or DAO revolver with the short hammer swing when fired in double action. Especially the little j-frames, or even the tiny NAA single action jobs, both with smaller hammers. That's where thorough ammo testing with a particular gun needs to be done. And if it won't light off quality rimfire ammo reliably, then it needs to be repaired or relegated to being a practice/target gun.
My .22 Magnum revolvers are made by NAA and Heritage. They certainly have questionable ignition attributes, but I shoot a lot of .22 LR in them and have less duds than I do .22 Mag, where it is usually 2 per 50 rd box.

Doing a quick look at prices for S&W and Ruger .22 Magnums and I don't have an interest in paying the prices for a S&W, while the Ruger you have two choices of the LCR or Single Six/Nine, neither of which interest me.

I do have an interest in the Taurus Tracker, I think once availability gets better and prices settle down I will grab one because I want a DA .22 LR, it comes with a .22 Mag cylinder, and I feel if I'm going to make a definitive statement about .22 Mag reliability I should grab something that doesn't have questionable traits like the NAA and Heritage do.

You do bring up a good point tho with hammer swings in smaller frame revolvers being weaker. Given the topic is about self defense the obvious choice for most is going to be a J frame or some other snub, so just by choosing those revolvers people are already limiting the ignition reliability.

This is why I'm much more in favor of .32 over .22 Magnum; the projectile is much heavier, penetrates deeper, does more damage, the trigger is lighter because it's centerfire, it's more reliable and just overall is better. I understand the reason people choose .22 Magnum because they hold more rounds in the cylinder and the ammunition is more available at local stores, but online is a different story and people need to wipe off the fears of buying ammo online.
 
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Think a 9 shot 4in revolver with Gold Dots in 22 mag would be a good defensive weapon for ccw?
And yea I know there are better calibers for this.
But that's all my friend has, he just got his ccw.
I believe it is enough to stop a threat and survive for another day.
Especially at distances most shootings occur. I believe the 22 WMR is so underrated for a defensive round

You answered the question in the original post itself...
 
This is why I'm much more in favor of .32 over .22 Magnum; the projectile is much heavier, penetrates deeper, does more damage, the trigger is lighter because it's centerfire, it's more reliable and just overall is better. I understand the reason people choose .22 Magnum because they hold more rounds in the cylinder and the ammunition is more available at local stores, but online is a different story and people need to wipe off the fears of buying ammo online.

This line of thought plus my own experiences with unreliable .22wmr platforms is exactly how I ended up as a big fan of the .32 family, .32 h&r in particular.

I do not know how reliable your Sentinel is, but my pistol experiences started with Heritage Rough Riders in .22lr/22wmr.
I have had hours of fun shooting .22wmr from my Rough Riders, however all three of them needed shims between their hammer springs and grip frames to be able to strike rimfires with enough authority to reduce light strikes to an acceptable rate for just range use, let alone self defense. So even though I love my 9 shot conversion barkeep, I decided I needed something better for a carry piece.

I then moved on to a Diamondback Sidekick as a double action .22wmr as my chosen carry piece when I couldn’t locate a Sentinel myself. I immediately began testing to find out which .22wmr would be best for carry as I am very certain that .22wmr would do the job ballistically. My intent was to carry Speer Gold Dots for self defense and train with cheaper .22wmr brands. However after having dozens of missfires, cylinder jams, and failures to eject when testing which .22wmr ammo would be the closest match to Gold Dots for training purposes I discovered that my Diamondback Sidekick only likes Gold Dots (It runs flawlessly with those). I thus concluded that .22wmr and rimfires themselves are not worth the hassle for self defense. You need an exact combination of platform and ammo to run it reliably in my experience and I am just not willing to rely on that in my time of need.

Eventually I personally settled on the .32 family as the closest match to .22wmr available in a centerfire platform and I have not been disappointed. 7 rounds of .32 H&R magnum is a great compromise between 9 shots of .22wmr and 5 shots of .38 special.

All that being said those High Standard Sentinels are beautiful and if yours runs reliably I think you should hold onto it and carry it with confidence, as no matter the strength of the round whether or not someone will stop when being shot is always a crapshoot.
 
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