9 rounds of 22 Mag for self defense

[Tallball]

I had a Sentinel. It was one of the nicer steel ones.

I don't carry 22 for SD, but if other people do, that's their own business.

At least it's a revolver.

 

[jstert]

my own problem with 22wmr is that, imho, it gives too much unpleasant flashbang for not alot more concrete result out of a handgun, compared to 22lr. a 50 round box of 22lr is 1/3 cost of 22wmr. i got rid of a 1.8” ruger lcr 22wmr snubbie but kept the 22lr version. 22wmr needs a longer barrel, preferably a carbine or rifle, to truly shine.

all this said, i do very much like my versatile and reliable 5.5” ruger 22lr/wmr “single eight” (aftermarket 8-shot 22wmr cylinder by borchardt). i would be quite content with it as a sole sidearm for home or campsite and get-home bag because it is uber-reliable and accurate.

if all a person has is a 22wmr revolver for protection then by all means practice with and carry it. attending high school dances eons ago i learned that holding “not bad” beats waiting for the elusive ideal.

 

[TTv2]

This line of thought plus my own experiences with unreliable .22wmr platforms is exactly how I ended up as a big fan of the .32 family, .32 h&r in particular.

I do not know how reliable your Sentinel is, but my pistol experiences started with Heritage Rough Riders in .22lr/22wmr.
I have had hours of fun shooting .22wmr from my Rough Riders, however all three of them needed shims between their hammer springs and grip frames to be able to strike rimfires with enough authority to reduce light strikes to an acceptable rate for just range use, let alone self defense. So even though I love my 9 shot conversion barkeep, I decided I needed something better for a carry piece.

I then moved on to a Diamondback Sidekick as a double action .22wmr as my chosen carry piece when I couldn’t locate a Sentinel myself. I immediately began testing to find out which .22wmr would be best for carry as I am very certain that .22wmr would do the job ballistically. My intent was to carry Speer Gold Dots for self defense and train with cheaper .22wmr brands. However after having dozens of missfires, cylinder jams, and failures to eject when testing which .22wmr ammo would be the closest match to Gold Dots for training purposes I discovered that my Diamondback Sidekick only likes Gold Dots (It runs flawlessly with those). I thus concluded that .22wmr and rimfires themselves are not worth the hassle for self defense. You need an exact combination of platform and ammo to run it reliably in my experience and I am just not willing to rely on that in my time of need.

Eventually I personally settled on the .32 family as the closest match to .22wmr available in a centerfire platform and I have not been disappointed. 7 rounds of .32 H&R magnum is a great compromise between 9 shots of .22wmr and 5 shots of .38 special.

All that being said those High Standard Sentinels are beautiful and if yours runs reliably I think you should hold onto it and carry it with confidence, as no matter the strength of the round whether or not someone will stop when being shot is always a crapshoot.

I own a Heritage Rough Rider, not a Sentinel.

 

[Oninotaki]

I own a Heritage Rough Rider, not a Sentinel.

Sorry my post was directed towards the OP even though I quoted you. Later in the thread the OP mentions his friend has a Sentinel, and that was the Sentinel I was referring to in my post. I quoted you because I agreed with your thoughts on why .32 caliber was better, and I was expanding on that view with my own experiences with .22wmr and .32 that lead to me reaching conclusions that agree with yours.

 

[doubleh]

The 22 mag was designed for killing slightly larger pests than the the 22LR is capable of and it is excellent in that capacity, handgun or rifle, but we aren't talking about four legged small varmints here. If you want a self defense gun get one designed for that purpose, not a small varmint gun. Even though I have never had a dud problem with the round it just doesn't have enough oomph to get the job done consistently.

As a comparison let's talk pipe wrenches. If you are working on four inch pipe you don't use an 24" pipe wrench, you use a 36" or even a 48". Yes, you can make the 24 fit but it won't accomplish much while the 36 gets the job done and the 48 does it even easier. It's all a matter of applied force.

Then we have to consider things like size, weight, and the carrier's physical limits. That is where things begin to get complicated but if you can make a 22 magnum fit you can make a 380 do the same and there are some low effort to operate and soft recoil guns in this caliber and for me that is as small as I would go. I do not consider a double action revolver a good choice for a person with limited physical capabilities simply because of the long, heavy, trigger pull. A J frame Smith was my wife's defense pistol for many years. Now because of arthritis in her hands and hardly any strength at all it is worthless to her.

This is strictly one man's opinion that has never even been close to being in a gunfight and doesn't want to be, ever.

 

[defjon]

If you look at ballistic gel or various other mediums, the 22 mag is pretty good.

I don't have that caliber currently. Man it seemed loud out of my single six convertible. It doesn't waste much time getting to the target and seems to hit with authority when it gets there. Also seemed loke a very accurate round in general.

I think it has its place.

 

[GEM]

I had 22 mag NAA Mini - it was the loudest gun! I shot it at at a range between two lane dividers and I thought it blew up. I actually felt the blast wave come back and under my glasses. My eyes automatically slammed shut!

Same old argument, accept the limitations of the gun. If it's all you got, it's all you got. Don't praise it as somehow optimal. Make accommodations for hand strength . What else is there? There are better choices in the same size package.

Can I chop up vegetables with my tactical knife, yes. Can I chop up a madman intruder with my chef's knife, yes. Are those the optimal uses - no.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

If you look at ballistic gel or various other mediums, the 22 mag is pretty good.

Did you ever notice that they only shoot catatonic ballistics gel? They need to shoot ballistics gel that is mad, drunk, on meth or pcp, etc. Generally speaking, ballistics gel seems to be some of the most patient and forgiving of adversaries.

 

[MedWheeler]

GEM writes:

I had 22 mag NAA Mini - it was the loudest gun! I shot it at at a range between two lane dividers and I thought it blew up. I actually felt the blast wave come back and under my glasses. My eyes automatically slammed shut!

I have one, too, but have never fired it. I don't expect it to be anything but harsh, and probably overly so.

I recently became aware of the compatibility between .22WCF ammunition and guns chambered in .22WMR, so I now have some WCF in my inventory for use, should I dislike the Magnum fodder in my 2.5" Sheriff model NAA.

 

[defjon]

Did you ever notice that they only shoot catatonic ballistics gel? They need to shoot ballistics gel that is mad, drunk, on meth or pcp, etc. Generally speaking, ballistics gel seems to be some of the most patient and forgiving of adversaries.

Well, I was speaking to the damage dealt to the bones/organs in the dummies, lol. I think mad drunk method out ballistic dummies affect all calibers...that's why we say all handguns are poor stoppers.

 

[chicharrones]

Did you ever notice that they only shoot catatonic ballistics gel? They need to shoot ballistics gel that is mad, drunk, on meth or pcp, etc. Generally speaking, ballistics gel seems to be some of the most patient and forgiving of adversaries.

Well played.

Same goes for all calibers fired into gel, then.

 

[chicharrones]

Another thing is that I've noticed that .22 WMR ammo has seemed to gotten better in the last 15 to 20 years, while .22 LR seems about the same as it ever was. Considering the tight groups shooting out of rifles at 100 yards and chrony results with deviations getting more consistent, I'd guess that some of this .22 WMR is made very well indeed. Added primer to decrease voids in the rim, better powder measuring, and certainly the better bullets that everyone can see from the outside.

You're projecting that .22 Magnum uses and has more primer compound to fill the voids, but I've never heard that and can't find any supporting evidence to consider that that is the case, so this is more theory than reality. I have been of the opinion that because of the length of .22 Mag the primer compound has a higher chance of getting stuck in the neck and sometimes never reaches the base where it is then spun into the rim.

As for better powder measuring, that's debatable, what likely has a bigger impact on the lower standard deviations and tighter groups is the bullet not be heel based, better, more consistent crimping, and in general just a better powder being used over .22 LR. The higher quality jacketed, not plated or coated lead bullets, is clearly superior.

I doubt .17 HMR had anything to do with it, but technology improvement in general.

You say projecting, I say theorizing from my own anecdotal experience.

 

[chicharrones]

My experience has been that I've had nearly as many duds with .22 Mag as I have .22 LR, yet I've shot 10x more .22 LR than I have .22 Mag. Now, all my .22 Mags are single action revolvers with dual cylinders and I've not ever noticed an unusually high dud rate with the .22 LR cylinders beyond what I would consider typical ammo issues, so if I'm not having issues with .22 LR in the SAME REVOLVER, then I cannot assume it's an issue with the revolver when I shoot .22 Mag, thus the only variable is the ammo.

And I'm not going to consider that I have three .22 Mag cylinders that are all faulty or out of spec, but three .22 LR cylinders that are in spec.

My .22 Magnum revolvers are made by NAA and Heritage. They certainly have questionable ignition attributes, but I shoot a lot of .22 LR in them and have less duds than I do .22 Mag, where it is usually 2 per 50 rd box.

Has the Heritage been shipped back to Heritage for evaluation/repair?

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/light-strikes-with-new-heritage-rough-rider-barkeep.1254009/

https://www.taurusarmed.net/threads/heritage-rough-rider-light-strikes-solved.439294/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Revolvers/comments/wksk8o/how_to_fix_your_heritage_rough_rider_light/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/handgun...der-misfire-question-UPDATE-in-OP/33-197031/?

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/heritage-rough-rider-misfire.1238579/

 

[golden]

If it is the only gun they have, then it will have to do till they can upgrade. Even so, it is not a good choice in my opinion. The .22magnum is a hot little number from a rifle, but looses a lot in a handgun. The Gold Dots are probably the best choice, but your friend should practice failure to stop drills which involve head shots. These are not as easy as many people believe.

Upgrade as soon as possible. A 4 inch .38 Special loaded with Gold Dots, FEDERAL HST or another high performance load would be a huge improvement for a revolver shooter and stick with the 4 inch barrel.

Jim

 

[Hangingrock]

The 22RMF would not be my choice.

 

[TTv2]

Has the Heritage been shipped back to Heritage for evaluation/repair?

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/light-strikes-with-new-heritage-rough-rider-barkeep.1254009/

https://www.taurusarmed.net/threads/heritage-rough-rider-light-strikes-solved.439294/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Revolvers/comments/wksk8o/how_to_fix_your_heritage_rough_rider_light/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/handgun...der-misfire-question-UPDATE-in-OP/33-197031/?

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/heritage-rough-rider-misfire.1238579/

This is the typical response that I expect and it's to question the gun and I have said it multiple times it's not the guns because all three .22 LR/Mag combo revolvers I have don't have the ignition issues with .22 LR on the same level they do with .22 Mag. I expect when I get the Taurus Tracker combo .22 LR/.22 Mag that the same excuse will be "it's the gun" when I talk about the eventual .22 Mag issues I have with it and the gun will be blamed because it's a Taurus.

If only S&W and Ruger can make a .22 Mag that actually works and never has a light strike or a dud, then I'm not interested because I have no use for a $700 .22 Mag only revolver.

It is not the gun, it's the ammo. The .22 Mag is not as reliable with ignition in revolvers as .22 LR is.

I don't have light strikes with the .22 LR, at least not in a way that is the gun's fault, but the ammo's fault. The .22 Mag, unless it's CCI, it's going to give me at least two duds in a box. I've had Hornady .22 Mag where I indexed it 90 degrees and still didn't go off, so it's not like using premium ammo is a solution either.

 

[357smallbore]

Soooo . . . you gave your revolver to a friend?

Absolutely not. He has one of his own. Was his father's

 

[chicharrones]

This is the typical response that I expect and it's to question the gun and I have said it multiple times it's not the guns because all three .22 LR/Mag combo revolvers I have don't have the ignition issues with .22 LR on the same level they do with .22 Mag. I expect when I get the Taurus Tracker combo .22 LR/.22 Mag that the same excuse will be "it's the gun" when I talk about the eventual .22 Mag issues I have with it and the gun will be blamed because it's a Taurus.

If only S&W and Ruger can make a .22 Mag that actually works and never has a light strike or a dud, then I'm not interested because I have no use for a $700 .22 Mag only revolver.

It is not the gun, it's the ammo. The .22 Mag is not as reliable with ignition in revolvers as .22 LR is.

I don't have light strikes with the .22 LR, at least not in a way that is the gun's fault, but the ammo's fault. The .22 Mag, unless it's CCI, it's going to give me at least two duds in a box. I've had Hornady .22 Mag where I indexed it 90 degrees and still didn't go off, so it's not like using premium ammo is a solution either.

Soooo . . . your guns haven't been sent back to the manufacturer or anyone else for check out and repair

Consider this little bit of info about convertible cylinder rimfire revolvers with round tipped firing pins mounted in the frame smacked by a transfer bar or flat faced hammer.

The rim diameter of .22 LR is approximately 0.278". The rim diameter of .22 WMR is approximately 0.300". . . . . Awww forget it, remainder of text deleted. It looks like we've been down this road before.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-wmr-in-revolvers.881328/page-4#post-11786491

From https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/22-lr-vs-22-wmr-in-revolvers.881328/page-4

I do not have the problems you're having with my pair of Single Six convertibles. And I do not have the problems you're having with my non-convertible .22 LR only H&R 999, Charter Arms Pocket Target, or Ruger Bearcat.

If I had your convertible guns, I'd fix them or get rid of them.

 

[TTv2]

Soooo . . . your guns haven't been sent back to the manufacturer or anyone else for check out and repair

Consider this little bit of info about convertible cylinder rimfire revolvers with round tipped firing pins mounted in the frame smacked by a transfer bar or flat faced hammer.

The rim diameter of .22 LR is approximately 0.278". The rim diameter of .22 WMR is approximately 0.300". . . . . Awww forget it, remainder of text deleted. It looks like we've been down this road before.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-wmr-in-revolvers.881328/page-4#post-11786491

From https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/22-lr-vs-22-wmr-in-revolvers.881328/page-4

I do not have the problems you're having with my pair of Single Six convertibles. And I do not have the problems you're having with my non-convertible .22 LR only H&R 999, Charter Arms Pocket Target, or Ruger Bearcat.

If I had your convertible guns, I'd fix them or get rid of them.

You don't have the problems with the .22 LR revolvers because they're .22 LR

You have a point on the round firing pin of the Heritage and it's one I've thought may have merit as to the issue, but I'm not sending the gun in because it's not worth my time when it shoots 22 LR fine and the odds are the problem can't be fixed with the .22 Mag and I'm not willing to let the gun go because it's the only single action 9 shot .22 LR/Mag revolver available with adjustable sights from the factory.

The NAA's are a different story, they use the hammer mounted firing pin, which is a proper rimfire firing pin, but they also have a shorter hammer throw because of their size. That said, the .22 LR still ignites better in those than the .22 Mag does.

IDK if the Taurus used a round firing pin or a proper rimfire one, but I'll find out whenever I get to buying the Tracker and 942 revolvers.

 

[chicharrones]

You don't have the problems with the .22 LR revolvers because they're .22 LR

True. But I've considered converting my Bearcat to .22 Mag for the sheer novelty of it. What's holding me back from just reaming the cylinder for .22 Mag is the firing pin hit in that gun is actually a bit inboard from the rim on .22 LR. I've read of custom gunsmiths having to alter or replace the firing pin in Bearcats converted to magnums.

You have a point on the round firing pin of the Heritage and it's one I've thought may have merit as to the issue, but I'm not sending the gun in because it's not worth my time when it shoots 22 LR fine and the odds are the problem can't be fixed with the .22 Mag and I'm not willing to let the gun go because it's the only single action 9 shot .22 LR/Mag revolver available with adjustable sights from the factory.

The NAA's are a different story, they use the hammer mounted firing pin, which is a proper rimfire firing pin, but they also have a shorter hammer throw because of their size. That said, the .22 LR still ignites better in those than the .22 Mag does.

IDK if the Taurus used a round firing pin or a proper rimfire one, but I'll find out whenever I get to buying the Tracker and 942 revolvers.

In my previous post, there is a link to other links with rectangular firing pins not hitting the rim correctly.

If you would share photos of your fired and misfired .22 LR and .22 WMR cases from all three of your convertible revolvers, it's possible we could help you work through a solution.

 

[GEM]

Just a bit. I had a SW 651 way back when. I had wanted a 63 but the LGS couldn't find one. It was a nice gun however, I found that with the 22 Mag ammo of the day, 50 rounds through the gun, gooked it up with so much unburned powder that I had to use almost a can of some cleaner to free it up and disassemble a bit to get it all out. I also noted that when I shot at a 7 yards paper target, the target was covered in soot. Does today's ammo do that? I dunno. This was in 1994.

Just info. At a match a guy was shooting one of those Keltec 22 mags pistol and it jammed on every stage.

 

[chicharrones]

Just a bit. I had a SW 651 way back when. I had wanted a 63 but the LGS couldn't find one. It was a nice gun however, I found that with the 22 Mag ammo of the day, 50 rounds through the gun, gooked it up with so much unburned powder that I had to use almost a can of some cleaner to free it up and disassemble a bit to get it all out. I also noted that when I shot at a 7 yards paper target, the target was covered in soot. Does today's ammo do that? I dunno. This was in 1994.

That wasn't soot, that was scorched paper. You can't shoot at something that close with a fireball launcher like .22 WMR.

Truthfully, it seems like the .22LR I shoot in my Single Sixes foul the cylinder more quickly than .22 WMR. What I've noticed in some .22 WMR in my Single Sixes is tiny yellow particles scattered about a bit in the chambers and bore. Seems to be pretty clean burning otherwise.

Just info. At a match a guy was shooting one of those Keltec 22 mags pistol and it jammed on every stage.

I only have hands on time with one of those belonging to my ol' shootin' buddy. We found with his that it preferred 40 grain loads with smooth pointed bullet profiles. And his needed to have the mags downloaded to 28 cartridges in the 30 round magazines. Once all that was learned, that gun ran very well.

 

[Pat Riot]

Just being ornery here…

I wonder if one would encounter so much negativity regarding a certain .223 caliber in a tactical forum.
Comments made here about:
- Not powerful enough
- Not for larger varmints
- Not enough weight or diameter to be effective

 

[Palladan44]

Just read the OP and nothing further.
OP- you could do a helluva lot worse. I'd pack it with confidence.

 

[mljdeckard]

In a word, no.

When I teach concealed carry, I know full well most of the people I lecture are going to get whatever they want to anyway. And yes, I would rather they at least start with what they have than not carry at all.

But if it's someone in whose life I am personally invested, I am going to steer them somewhere else. I will loan them something better, like a G-19, until they can shake out the cushions and buy something better. A .22 mag is better than a .22 lr, but it's still going to create minimal cavity trauma. It's not that they suck. It's that ALL handguns suck, and they are choosing the one that sucks the most. There are so many compact, cheap, viable options now, it's difficult to justify not scraping together a few hundred dollars, even if it takes a minute.