9 rounds of 22 Mag for self defense

[NorthBorder]

This is a beauty @sgt127

I would love to find one of these.

 

[.38 Special]

As always, we are enormously unlikely to need a gun, and if we do ever need a gun, apparently the mere presence of it is enough to stop the fight before it gets started in the great majority of instances. And it apparently is the case that quite a few people will choose to quit once they get shot or even shot at. So in that sense, yes, pretty much any gun should do the trick for almost everyone.

If it comes down to actually needing to stop a determined attacker, though, a .22 rimfire is a terrible choice, as it will almost certainly require a solid CNS hit to work. I'd take it if I had no other options, but I'd work awfully hard to get myself some more options.

 

[Smaug]

Re. the comments that 22 rimfire are not as reliable as centerfire, they seem to be going off of 22LR experience. That is iffy, because there is so much cheap blasting ammo for 22LR.

Many people have noted that 22 WMR seems to be more reliable, probably because there isn't cheap ammo for it.

As for effectiveness, I think it would be pretty good, just like Lucky Gunner does:

 

[jstert]

universal ccw rules acording to me:
#1. have a firearm.
#2. practice with it.
#3. have it with you.
#4. know when, where & how to use it.

nothing in my own little rulebook specifies “no rimfire.” obviously if one needs a ccw because one is around apex predators then there are better choices than rimfire. if i were a mugger and my potential victim drew a 22lr/wmr handgun with practiced determination i would back off and move on. isn’t this enough deterrence for most of us in most situations?

i’m curious about the exact 9-shot, 22wmr handgun that o.p.’s friend carries.

 

[chicharrones]

i’m curious about the exact 9-shot, 22wmr handgun that o.p.’s friend carries.

Same here.

 

[sgt127]

This is a beauty @sgt127

I would love to find one of these.

Thank you.

It was easy!

About 40 years ago….

the factory even fitted a spare .22 LR cylinder for it! $105 bucks as I recall.

 

[357smallbore]

universal ccw rules acording to me:
#1. have a firearm.
#2. practice with it.
#3. have it with you.
#4. know when, where & how to use it.

nothing in my own little rulebook specifies “no rimfire.” obviously if one needs a ccw because one is around apex predators then there are better choices than rimfire. if i were a mugger and my potential victim drew a 22lr/wmr handgun with practiced determination i would back off and move on. isn’t this enough deterrence for most of us in most situations?

i’m curious about the exact 9-shot, 22wmr handgun that o.p.’s friend carries.

The gun is a High Standard MKIV Sentinel

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Re. the comments that 22 rimfire are not as reliable as centerfire, they seem to be going off of 22LR experience. That is iffy, because there is so much cheap blasting ammo for 22LR.

Many people have noted that 22 WMR seems to be more reliable, probably because there isn't cheap ammo for it.

As for effectiveness, I think it would be pretty good, just like Lucky Gunner does:

It still uses the same ignition system, a jump in casing length with more powder doesn't change the fact that both are still primed the same way.

 

[chicharrones]

Think a 9 shot 4in revolver with Gold Dots in 22 mag would be a good defensive weapon for ccw?
And yea I know there are better calibers for this.
But that's all my friend has, he just got his ccw.
I believe it is enough to stop a threat and survive for another day.
Especially at distances most shootings occur. I believe the 22 WMR is so underrated for a defensive round

The gun is a High Standard MKIV Sentinel

Soooo . . . you gave your revolver to a friend?

 

[Smaug]

It still uses the same ignition system, a jump in casing length with more powder doesn't change the fact that both are still primed the same way.

The lower price changes how much CARE goes into manufacturing.

Can you REALLY not imagine that higher cost can mean higher quality?

 

[The_Quartermaster]

The lower price changes how much CARE goes into manufacturing.

Can you REALLY not imagine that higher cost can mean higher quality?

I can REALLY not imagine appealing to a fallacy argument. It still uses the same rimfire ignition system. Unless you can prove differently, I would certainly be all ears if so..

 

[TTv2]

If he can make accurate hits it should be
Ok. 4 inch barrel should add to effectiveness compared to a snub in rimfire. He's only got this so by definition it's good enough. I would hope that this is meant to cover until he can get a center fire ccw.

Something I'm learning with revolvers is not to automatically assume a longer barrel will yield greater velocities because the new norm for current revolvers is large barrel/cylinder gaps. Makes the manufacturing and assembling easier.

I recently had thought about getting a Taurus Tracker .22, but decided that the 4 inch appealed to me more than the 6.5 inch because exceptionally higher velocity is not a guarantee.

 

[TTv2]

Re. the comments that 22 rimfire are not as reliable as centerfire, they seem to be going off of 22LR experience. That is iffy, because there is so much cheap blasting ammo for 22LR.

Many people have noted that 22 WMR seems to be more reliable, probably because there isn't cheap ammo for it.

As for effectiveness, I think it would be pretty good, just like Lucky Gunner does:

The only major added costs to the .22 Mag over .22 LR is the bullets used are jacketed (biggest cause for cost increase) and the extra brass.

The cost isn't because some guy is looking at them with a magnifying glass or some expensive QC process is used.

The machines and methods used are no better or different than the .22 LR, thus the resultant misfire potential is equal and I've found with .22 Mag to be more common.

I think the reason people believe .22 LR is less reliable is they shoot so much more of it and usually low quality brands (looking at you Remington). If we compare apples to apples, like premium CCI .22 LR and Mag, the difference in reliability, IN A REVOLVER, would be equal.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

I was only using CCI, Winchester, or Federal when I still liked shooting ..22LR. All three were about equal in misfires.

My buddy had a bunch of CCI .22 Magnum that were also misfires, he sent it back along with the duds, they sent him a brand new brick plus another for his trouble. The first one had the same amount of misfires. So he sold the gun along with the other box.

It's why I am biased.

 

[Pat Riot]

The gun is a High Standard MKIV Sentinel

I actually carried one of those years ago as it was all I had. It had the 2” barrel. I never needed to fire it in self defense, but twice I pulled it to stop some bad stuff that was about to happen yo yours truly. Thankfully I did not need to pull the trigger.
The gun was one of my Dad’s and I inherited it after he died.
Eventually I put a 4” barrel on it. My sister has it now as she needed an HD gun that she could hold, manipulate and shoot. She has pretty bad arthritis in her hands.

I was only using CCI, Winchester, or Federal when I still liked shooting ..22LR. All three were about equal in misfires.

My buddy had a bunch of CCI .22 Magnum that were also misfires, he sent it back along with the duds, they sent him a brand new brick plus another for his trouble. The first one had the same amount of misfires. So he sold the gun along with the other box.

It's why I am biased.

You’re just a breath if fresh air everywhere you go, aren’t you?

I can tell you that I have bought thousands of 22 magnum rounds over the years and the only misfires I have ever had were some old rounds that were kept in a storage facility that had no heating or cooling in a humid location for a few years that that i was given. This was ammo bought in the 70’s and given to me in the early 80’s. A couple of rounds out of a couple of hundred.
Your friend had a problem with one batch of ammo so it’s all bad, huh?
That wouldn’t be enough for me to say “all 22 magnum ammo is as unreliable as .22 LR.”

 

[Smaug]

I was only using CCI, Winchester, or Federal when I still liked shooting ..22LR. All three were about equal in misfires.

My buddy had a bunch of CCI .22 Magnum that were also misfires, he sent it back along with the duds, they sent him a brand new brick plus another for his trouble. The first one had the same amount of misfires. So he sold the gun along with the other box.

It's why I am biased.

Had any misfires with non-brick quantity 22 WMR? Boxes of 50 or 100 only?

Reason I ask is because I recently bought a couple 300 ct. bricks of CCI 22LR and it is not accurate in my new gun. It had several misfires, too. It used to be that CCI only made good ammo, but now they're into the bulk pack game, seemingly with lower QC, too.

Many gun testers are finding that good quality 22WMR shot from a good gun doesn't misfire. I certainly hope so, as folks are increasingly relying on 22WMR for defense, and there is even defense-marketed ammo for it now. (ex. Federal Punch, which tests well out of short barrels)

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Re. the comments that 22 rimfire are not as reliable as centerfire, they seem to be going off of 22LR experience. That is iffy, because there is so much cheap blasting ammo for 22LR.

Many people have noted that 22 WMR seems to be more reliable, probably because there isn't cheap ammo for it.

As for effectiveness, I think it would be pretty good, just like Lucky Gunner does:

My own experience with .22 WMR shows to to be EXTREMELY reliable.

My first gun was a Marlin 783 bolt action rifle I bought back in 1982. I cannot even begin to say how many thousands of rounds I put through that gun.

I fed it several brands, but the vast majority was CCI Maxi-Mag (loved those plastic boxes), followed by Winchester, then followed by a bit of Federal.

My first pistol was an AMT Automag II. It got fed a steady diet of Winchester .22 WMR.

Out of all that, I had exactly 2 problems with .22 WMR ammunition:

1. A creased cartridge from a box of Winchester (I wrote a letter to Winchester, by the way, and got a free box of ammo for my trouble).

2. A Federal round that was OBVIOUSLY a very hot round (much louder than it should have been and I had to tap the split case out).

But never once have I ever had a .22 WMR round misfire. .22 LR? Occasionally, but NEVER a .22 Magnum.

Anecdotal evidence based on my own experience, to be sure, but my own experience nonetheless.

 

[chicharrones]

Like I've mentioned many times, I have yet to experience a misfire with any .22 WMR made in the last 20 years. That's in revolvers, autoloaders, bolt guns, and lever guns.

I have experienced jams due to bullet shape or bullet weight in the autoloaders, I'll admit.

I also have to admit that I almost always buy the higher end .22 WMR ammo. Winchester DynaPoint (DynaCrap) is made like .22 LR and should not be used for self defense, IMO. Hornady for one seems to make the highest quality .22 WMR ammo in my experience.

Regarding that Ruger LCR in the Lucky Gunner video? Yep, he should have sent that gun back to Ruger.

That LCR reminds me of my Marlin 39AS in .22 LR that was notorious for having misfires with a variety of .22 LR ammo. After a couple decades of ownership, I discovered I could tune the firing pin and rebound hammer (thanks to the internet) and once I did that work the amount of misfires has dropped to nil. I also avoid Wildcat and Thunderbolt ammo, which is a huge help in itself.

 

[wcwhitey]

With regards to ammo. There is always a potential for a misfire, squib or something similar. Defective ammunition is not a rimfire only situation. I recently posted in this Forum about my experience during my semi annual Carry ammo rotation where I had several squibs and fail to fire in .380 that was purely an ammo problem not a gun issue. It can happen. That is centerfire. Some rimfire is better than others, some very good. It is though not as reliable as centerfire this is why we predominantly use the centerfire system. When I commented on the post above it was not to say that rimfire is bad or useless. One just has to be aware of what you are working with, train accordingly and rotate carry ammo. My point was that if I was to carry a rimfire it would be a revolver. The ability to get a misfire that does not require a malfunction drill at the worst time is a good thing! Folks guns are mechanical devices! All mechanical devices do and will fail eventually, usually at the worst moment. Awareness of your choices strengths and weaknesses, training and good maintenance of both gun and ammo will minimize it.

 

[Smaug]

The only major added costs to the .22 Mag over .22 LR is the bullets used are jacketed (biggest cause for cost increase) and the extra brass.

The cost isn't because some guy is looking at them with a magnifying glass or some expensive QC process is used.

Unless you work for an ammo company who makes self-defense-marketed 22WMR ammo, I don't think you really know that; you're just guessing.

The machines and methods used are no better or different than the .22 LR, thus the resultant misfire potential is equal and I've found with .22 Mag to be more common.

This at least is reliable anecdotal evidence.

For discussion's sake, here is a quote from

Product Overview
Different shooters have different needs, limitations and firearms. Yet for all of those variables, rimfire has never been a practical option for self-defense—until now. Introducing Punch™ Personal Defense® rimfire from Federal Premium®. The loads' nickel-plated lead-core bullet is propelled at extreme velocities and engineered to minimize expansion to hit critical penetration depths through short-barrel handguns. Stringent function testing also ensures the most reliable ignition, cycling and overall performance. So, whether you want to carry a backup gun, don't feel comfortable with centerfires, or simply want to get more versatility from your rimfire pistol, Punch makes these cartridges viable choices for the first time ever.

• Nickel-plated lead-core bullet
• Projectile profile and composition optimized for the deepest penetration through short-barrel handguns
• Rigorous function testing ensures reliability
• Nickel-plated case for ease of extraction and corrosion resistance
• 50-count boxes
• Maximum velocity for energy and penetration: 22 WMR offers 1,000 fps muzzle velocity through 2-inch barrel, 1,800 fps through rifle barrels

Now they don't specifically say that they use different manufacturing methods or have better QC, but I bet they do. It would be totally irresponsible for them to market the ammo this way otherwise, and Federal has a great reputation overall as a high quality ammo manufacturer.

BTW, this guy (Buffalo's Outdoors) has a lot of good videos on 22WMR from short barrels re. efficacy. Here's one. Federal Punch vs. Speer Gold Dot defense ammo.

​

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Don't shoot 22 Mag, for the last several years the number of misfires I have had with 22RF has gone up steadily, IMHO QC has slipped.

 

[Pat Riot]

Don't shoot 22 Mag, for the last several years the number of misfires I have had with 22RF has gone up steadily, IMHO QC has slipped.

“22RF” as in Long Rifle or Magnum. Big difference in reliability.

 

[GEM]

Of interest to this discussion: https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/why-carry-a-22

A fair number of the skilled trainer world think the 22 mag J frames or LCR are just fine for the casual gun carry, accepting their limitations.

Another set think that the 32 revolvers - limited selection - are fine given the range of ammo and the extra shot in the J, LCR sized guns.

If you accept what they are and don't go down the rabbit hole of denying the fighting superiority of a semi in 9mm for example, they are fine for many uses and not for the rare, more nasty encounters.

 

[doubleh]

“22RF” as in Long Rifle or Magnum. Big difference in reliability.

I can't remember ever having a dud with 22 magnum. I used to shoot a lot of in my youngers years and then quit. I have returned to shooting some of the new ammo in pistols and have never had a failure with it so far. CCI, Remington, and even Winchester goes "bang" with every trigger pull. That doesn't mean it is impossible to have a dud, just that I have never had one in hundreds and hundreds of rounds fired. On the other hand I have no idea of the "clicks" I have had with the new 22 LR ammo. I just quit counting.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

Had any misfires with non-brick quantity 22 WMR? Boxes of 50 or 100 only?

Reason I ask is because I recently bought a couple 300 ct. bricks of CCI 22LR and it is not accurate in my new gun. It had several misfires, too. It used to be that CCI only made good ammo, but now they're into the bulk pack game, seemingly with lower QC, too.

Many gun testers are finding that good quality 22WMR shot from a good gun doesn't misfire. I certainly hope so, as folks are increasingly relying on 22WMR for defense, and there is even defense-marketed ammo for it now. (ex. Federal Punch, which tests well out of short barrels)

Bricks.

These were shot from a good quality gun.