Would like to start a business.
- Thread starter .Scarecrow.
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WinThePennant
Member
They wouldn't be manufacturing the gun -- The individuals who buy the kits would be. The LGS would be providing an informational service on how to assemble the firearm.
.Scarecrow.
Member
I have read every last one of these, some of the criticisms I have worked out already. But in the end, I STILL want to do this, I have considered everything, thought about the work. But I still wanna do this so badly. We ARE going to start out at gunshows also.
mg.mikael
Member
Here's your first mistake.....and why you're not ready to go into business. Nobody can consider/predict everything, ever hear of the saying hindsight is 20/20. Well it's always true, because no one has the foresight to predict every event or hardship you will face.
Have you talked to legal counsel? Have you checked local ordinances? Do you have enough money to stock the shelves? Have you worked up a contract with your partner/employee? Are you sure any local gun stores won't run you out of business? Do have prior business experience, dealt with the taxes and record-keeping?
I doubt you've considered everything, as you put it.
Rail Driver
Member
I'll chime in with something.
It's been said twice before, you can't legally get your FFL until you're 21. That gives you both a few years to either work in the industry or to go to school (or both). Take advantage of that time. Put the business idea on the shelf until you meet the requirements to actually do business. Jumping the gun in the firearms industry with regard to legal requirements can land you in prison and cost you your firearms rights for life.
.Scarecrow.
Member
Well I can't do anything else in life and I'm already getting my business degree. What else would I do? I don't want to sit behind a desk wearing uncomfortable clothing staring at a computer screen in a cubical. I play guitar well but trying to make millions of dollars in a band is a smaller chance then opening a gun store, not to mention the travel, oh how the travel would kill me. I am starting this firearm store. It is not impossible, and as long as it's not impossible then I am going for it.
coolluke01
Member
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity."
"Many have the will to succeed, but few have the will to prepare."
Remember you did come on here looking for advice. Make sure you are not having your mind made up before you get all the facts. Making an emotionally charged decision will end in failure.
You have advice from many good sources here. Take heed and learn from mistakes and successes of those around you.
You are young and this is the time to prepare and study, not always the best time to act. You have good enthusiasm and heart. Many here have told you how a business can crush your spirit and break your heart.
You have a few years before this is a possibility, take the advice of others and work in the industry and learn what you can. What are you afraid of? That we are right and you will see the writing on the wall and chose a different path? The worst thing that will happen, working for someone else, is that you will learn something! A cheap education is invaluable.
You say that you have taken everything into account.
Do you have $500,000.000 in cash to get you started and hold you over for a few years?
Can you offer any expertise to men who fought in wars when your father was still in diapers? Don't even think you can say Yes to this one. If you think they will take you serious for one instant you are delusional.
Are you paying for your own car insurance right now?
Have you ever worked 60,70,80 or 90 hours a week for months on end?
Can you make a business plan yo show to Bankers without them scoffing at you?
Do you know what all your fixed costs will be and how much you need to gross to make a profit?
Do you have deals made with venders?
I either have or can fairly easily do everything on this list. But there is no way I would ever start my own gun shop.
If you want a great way to be an entrepreneur and make some real money. Buy old houses and fix them up and rent them out. Do this right and you'll do just fine. Then you can support your "hobby" with a real job.
"Many have the will to succeed, but few have the will to prepare."
Remember you did come on here looking for advice. Make sure you are not having your mind made up before you get all the facts. Making an emotionally charged decision will end in failure.
You have advice from many good sources here. Take heed and learn from mistakes and successes of those around you.
You are young and this is the time to prepare and study, not always the best time to act. You have good enthusiasm and heart. Many here have told you how a business can crush your spirit and break your heart.
You have a few years before this is a possibility, take the advice of others and work in the industry and learn what you can. What are you afraid of? That we are right and you will see the writing on the wall and chose a different path? The worst thing that will happen, working for someone else, is that you will learn something! A cheap education is invaluable.
You say that you have taken everything into account.
Do you have $500,000.000 in cash to get you started and hold you over for a few years?
Can you offer any expertise to men who fought in wars when your father was still in diapers? Don't even think you can say Yes to this one. If you think they will take you serious for one instant you are delusional.
Are you paying for your own car insurance right now?
Have you ever worked 60,70,80 or 90 hours a week for months on end?
Can you make a business plan yo show to Bankers without them scoffing at you?
Do you know what all your fixed costs will be and how much you need to gross to make a profit?
Do you have deals made with venders?
I either have or can fairly easily do everything on this list. But there is no way I would ever start my own gun shop.
If you want a great way to be an entrepreneur and make some real money. Buy old houses and fix them up and rent them out. Do this right and you'll do just fine. Then you can support your "hobby" with a real job.
Telekinesis
Member
You can't get a FFL as an individual until you are 21. A corporation has no age requirement FFL wise and you can set one up at any age as long as you are legally able to sign a contract.
OP: I think you need to decide if you're doing this as a business venture or if you're just doing this because you want to have a gun store. Either is a fine reason for getting a FFL, but don't kid yourself if you're not going to treat it like a business. A business is started by calculating ALL of the foreseeable costs of starting and running the business and comparing that to the expected revenue from the business. If the numbers come back high enough that it is a viable business venture, then and only then, does the owner say "yes, I am going to do this". If you have already made the decision to commit before knowing (or even thinking about) all the facts, you could be setting yourself up for disaster.
For example, are you or would part of your operation be regulated by ITAR? That is a big annual tax for a small business and is one of the few reasons I don't own a small ammo manufacturing company right now. That one tax would have killed our margin.
That said, I don't want to discourage you from starting a gun store. I just think you should know fully what you're getting into, and I think most people here would agree. Most are recommending you get more experience and knowledge before starting, rather than just saying "don't do it".
.Scarecrow.
Member
I DO want to work for a local firearms store called Silver Bullet. They are the only Major supplier of tactical firearms in my area. Part of the reason I thought I could succeed is by giving them some competition when it comes to tactical firearms, but I would not solely provide those, I would also want to reach into the hunting market some. But when people want a tactical firearm, they go to Silver Bullet. People are always waiting outside the doors for them to open even on Weekdays. I have heard before that if you want to be successful, be different, provide what your area cannot readily access. Thoughts on this?
.Scarecrow.
Member
I can also see that I rustled some jimmies around here when I accidentally said I've considered everything. I should have clarified that I considered everything that was said.
coolluke01
Member
Finding your niche is one of the most important aspects of a successful business.
Doing what someone else does and expecting success is foolishness.
This Sliver Bullet store you talk about. People often mistake busy for successful. I know plenty of people who work tons of hours every week and are not making it as a business.
Setting you price is very important. They best way to be able to charge what you need to is to add value. It's hard with retail to add value, since people can get the exact thing somewhere else often cheaper too. You need to find what people need,not want. People will search for hours online looking for wants. Needs have to be met in a timely way. The key to being a good salesman is to make the customer feel like they can't live without it. It then becomes a need and you are able to fill that need. Adding service to purchases also is a good way to add value. Remember you are not selling guns or ammo, you are selling an experience and a service. They can click buttons at get guns and ammo.
Doing what someone else does and expecting success is foolishness.
This Sliver Bullet store you talk about. People often mistake busy for successful. I know plenty of people who work tons of hours every week and are not making it as a business.
Setting you price is very important. They best way to be able to charge what you need to is to add value. It's hard with retail to add value, since people can get the exact thing somewhere else often cheaper too. You need to find what people need,not want. People will search for hours online looking for wants. Needs have to be met in a timely way. The key to being a good salesman is to make the customer feel like they can't live without it. It then becomes a need and you are able to fill that need. Adding service to purchases also is a good way to add value. Remember you are not selling guns or ammo, you are selling an experience and a service. They can click buttons at get guns and ammo.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
My lgs has been in business for over 40 years. They started well before wallyworld. They cannot compete with their prices on guns or ammo. They do buy and sell used guns and have a loyal customer base. They have 2 real gunsmiths and offer offsite blueing too. Still I don't see how they manage to stay in business with all of the competition.
.Scarecrow.
Member
Well I see where you are coming from Coolluke. You are indeed either an imitator or an innovator. And the reason I thought that was because I said to myself, "Well, there are a million hunting shops around here, this area probably doesn't need another one." Silver bullet does charge and arm and a leg for their guns, They are full blown retail unless you come in first with a competitive price. And I figured I could bring up my own shop and start competing price wise with the same types of products but I see that is probably not an option. In my business class we are reading a book called, "Purple Cow." And the basis of the book is that if you want to be successful, you have to be different, but most people are too afraid to be different, and that is why they are unsuccessful. But again I feel like it might be smart to provide what My area doesn't have a lot of, which is the modern firearms. And then we are back to mimicking Silver bullet, but being that they are the ONLY game in town, would it be smart to provide people with similar, but different offerings?
oneounceload
member
You think so, but without a track record, I doubt you will be paying the same wholesale prices as someone who already is established and moving product. When that happens, and your cost is almost what he is selling them for, what's Plan B?
Gun store wholesale prices are a lot like airline ticket prices - no two folks pay the same price. Many makers/jobbers will demand you buy an entire line of guns - even the dogs - if you want the popular ones, or that you need to buy 25K minimum order at a time to get the pricing you need to undercut your competition
You'll need to decide if you are going to fill a niche or go for the wally world model - pure volume - either one requires some serious cash up front for start up. Commercial licenses and permits, insurances, utilities are all higher for commercial businesses
Gun store wholesale prices are a lot like airline ticket prices - no two folks pay the same price. Many makers/jobbers will demand you buy an entire line of guns - even the dogs - if you want the popular ones, or that you need to buy 25K minimum order at a time to get the pricing you need to undercut your competition
You'll need to decide if you are going to fill a niche or go for the wally world model - pure volume - either one requires some serious cash up front for start up. Commercial licenses and permits, insurances, utilities are all higher for commercial businesses
coolluke01
Member
Most retailers are in a race to the bottom. This a terrible business model. Only one can be the cheapest. So be different and the best.
How many more types of AR15's do we really need?
If you really want to get in to the gun business, do gunsmithing. Leave the gun sale struggle to others. People add lots of toys and features to their guns. The main problem though is that it takes weeks to months to get any work done on a gun. Charge a little bit more and have a 2-3 day turn around. That's a service you can sell.
The main thing to remember is to look at your field and find what others are not doing but people really want. I built both of our businesses on the basis that people are willing to pay for good service. I'm not the cheapest but I am the best!
How many more types of AR15's do we really need?
If you really want to get in to the gun business, do gunsmithing. Leave the gun sale struggle to others. People add lots of toys and features to their guns. The main problem though is that it takes weeks to months to get any work done on a gun. Charge a little bit more and have a 2-3 day turn around. That's a service you can sell.
The main thing to remember is to look at your field and find what others are not doing but people really want. I built both of our businesses on the basis that people are willing to pay for good service. I'm not the cheapest but I am the best!
.Scarecrow.
Member
I'm grateful for that bit on wholesale prices. I have been told that doing gun show booths and used firearms is the best thing to do for just starting, then when I do have the funds and knowledge, start getting into new firearms. What can you tell me about the used firearms market, as well as gun shows?
When I was 18, I did what I said I was going to do no matter who told me not to. Sometimes I showed them. Sometimes they showed me. I learned a lot, some of it the hard way.
I have my own business now and have since 1998. If I were to open a firearm related business today, here's what I would think about: Specialize. You can go to nearly any town and buy a gun, and you can open a gun shop in most towns and make almost a living. Maybe learn one specific platform from top to bottom and make it your obsession. Learn to make top-notch AKs or target 1911s or something that sets you apart from the others. Something that makes people come to you because you are known to be the authority. Maybe you're the glock guy, the semi-pistol guy, the class 3 on the shelf guy, the rare and classics guy, milsurp guy, etc... Give them a reason other than lower price to come to you. If you just play the price game, it will be a hard if not impossible living in the gun shop trade. This is exactly what it sounds like the silver bullet is doing... they are the assault rifle guys. Your town already has assault rifle guys, so it doesn't sound like the niche you would want to pursue.
Once you get your niche market, you can then add the other stuff found everywhere else and let folks order the normal stuff through you. Then that guy who brought his ak underfolder in to be tweaked and tacticooled, he might also buy that old remington 700 on the wall.
I have my own business now and have since 1998. If I were to open a firearm related business today, here's what I would think about: Specialize. You can go to nearly any town and buy a gun, and you can open a gun shop in most towns and make almost a living. Maybe learn one specific platform from top to bottom and make it your obsession. Learn to make top-notch AKs or target 1911s or something that sets you apart from the others. Something that makes people come to you because you are known to be the authority. Maybe you're the glock guy, the semi-pistol guy, the class 3 on the shelf guy, the rare and classics guy, milsurp guy, etc... Give them a reason other than lower price to come to you. If you just play the price game, it will be a hard if not impossible living in the gun shop trade. This is exactly what it sounds like the silver bullet is doing... they are the assault rifle guys. Your town already has assault rifle guys, so it doesn't sound like the niche you would want to pursue.
Once you get your niche market, you can then add the other stuff found everywhere else and let folks order the normal stuff through you. Then that guy who brought his ak underfolder in to be tweaked and tacticooled, he might also buy that old remington 700 on the wall.
In my area there is one gunsmith for a 50 mile radius. He is very busy. He does a good job. He does not sell new guns. His customer service approach is "your gun will be ready when I call you, if you call me about it, you can come and pick it up and bring it somewhere else" Needless to say, he would be in trouble if he had some competition.
One of the problems w/ gunsmithing is that after a relatively short time investment, (if your time is of any value at all) the cost of doing the work exceeds the value of the gun. Not too many people can afford complex jobs, and it is unlikely that anyone is going to bring an extremely valuable piece in to a neophyte gunsmith.
One local gunshop who does no gunsmithing has grown from a "closet" to several thousand square feet, last I counted he had at least 8 employees working, over a 10 year period. Good service, fair prices, and good attitude from sales staff.
Good luck.
One of the problems w/ gunsmithing is that after a relatively short time investment, (if your time is of any value at all) the cost of doing the work exceeds the value of the gun. Not too many people can afford complex jobs, and it is unlikely that anyone is going to bring an extremely valuable piece in to a neophyte gunsmith.
One local gunshop who does no gunsmithing has grown from a "closet" to several thousand square feet, last I counted he had at least 8 employees working, over a 10 year period. Good service, fair prices, and good attitude from sales staff.
Good luck.
BigBoreFan
Member
Another option is to consider bundling of services. If you are in Michigan then you have 6 months of crappy weather. If you're going to have a storefront consider an indoor range. Even if you want to focus on selling guns or gunsmithing services a gun range is a reason to come into a retail establishment. If you offer rentals, instruction, concealed carry classes, try before you buy, you'll have people in the door who will walk past what you're selling on the way in and the way out. That, and a subscription fee for regulars and an hourly fee for anyone else should generate income. I belong to a local club that has an indoor range and the only thing that keeps me from being there every day in the winter is the distance from my house and keeping my wife happy. You could also offer leagues, bullseye, rimfire matches, 4H shooting. Lots of opportunity if you build the space. Retail and smithing is very hard to earn a living. A little market research may be in order.
JERRY
Member
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id pay $1.00 more per box of ammo from a local gun shop over wal-mart if i could also get other deals at the lgs.....holsters other than the bullcrap nylon and kydex u.m. and black hawk rigs....but that means they have to have an inventory over head and a good customer base.....this greatly depends on your location.
if you live in a northern state which recently got ccw laws passed or are butted against non ccw states pushing for repeal of such laws nation wide you will have a lot of business in a lgs....look at NoVa for example.
if youre in a pro gun state surrounded by progun states and anti gun right laws die as they leave the mouth of the idiots spewing it....there isnt much threat to gun rights and its a tough sell to joe schmuckatelli....look at alabama or mississippi....
if you live in a northern state which recently got ccw laws passed or are butted against non ccw states pushing for repeal of such laws nation wide you will have a lot of business in a lgs....look at NoVa for example.
if youre in a pro gun state surrounded by progun states and anti gun right laws die as they leave the mouth of the idiots spewing it....there isnt much threat to gun rights and its a tough sell to joe schmuckatelli....look at alabama or mississippi....
Plan2Live
Member
Scarecrow - although well meaning folks have posted some valid points and tips here, much of it leans towards the negative. They told Orville and Wilbur that it would never fly too. If my informaton is correct, a friend of mine here in Columbia,SC reminds me that about four years ago he dropped by some guy's two car garage (attached to his house) to buy somethng or other they were selling out of their garage. That business was Palmetto State Armory. Look where they are today. Banana Republic was started with less than $2,000 and a dream. 50 years from now some gun store somewhere is going to proudly advertise "Serving ______ for 50 Years." There's no reason that can't be you. Be prudent, do your homework, think outside the box, but above all, hold onto your dream.
coolluke01
Member
It is true that many have been told it won't work since no one has ever done it before. (Wright Brothers)
But this is not the case of flying the first plane or landing on the moon. This has been done many times. Some were successful and many were not.
It's easy to point to the success stories and tell you to hold on to your dreams. It's another thing to take real life experience and evaluate whether or not this is a good idea.
I like the some of the advise given above. I would make a small edit however.
There is no intrinsic value in a dream. It won't put food on the table. You can't sell it. Don't place more value on a dream than what you can sell it for.
Life isn't a Disney Movie, follow your heart and your dream and you'll end up broke in a cardboard box. Use your head!! And by all means Go For It if it makes good non subjective sense.
One last thing. Specializing in something is great. But you need to have a general draw to get people into the store. Or the other option is to not have a store and save the brick and mortar cost.
"A generalist knows less and less about more and more until eventually he or she knows nothing about everything. A specialist knows more and more about less and less until eventually he or she knows everything about nothing."
While this is kinda funny to think about, it has some good truth in it. Unfortunately most LGS's fall into the first category.
But this is not the case of flying the first plane or landing on the moon. This has been done many times. Some were successful and many were not.
It's easy to point to the success stories and tell you to hold on to your dreams. It's another thing to take real life experience and evaluate whether or not this is a good idea.
I like the some of the advise given above. I would make a small edit however.
Be prudent, do your homework, think outside the box, but above all, don't be too proud to let the dream die.
There is no intrinsic value in a dream. It won't put food on the table. You can't sell it. Don't place more value on a dream than what you can sell it for.
Life isn't a Disney Movie, follow your heart and your dream and you'll end up broke in a cardboard box. Use your head!! And by all means Go For It if it makes good non subjective sense.
One last thing. Specializing in something is great. But you need to have a general draw to get people into the store. Or the other option is to not have a store and save the brick and mortar cost.
"A generalist knows less and less about more and more until eventually he or she knows nothing about everything. A specialist knows more and more about less and less until eventually he or she knows everything about nothing."
While this is kinda funny to think about, it has some good truth in it. Unfortunately most LGS's fall into the first category.
RhinoDefense
Member
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- 883
Misleading. For purposes of an FFL, a corporation is a "person" and the persons listed on the FFL application as responsible persons must all me 21yo or they will be rejected. Whether you form a corporation or not, the responsible members must be 21yo.
To the OP: It seems to me you came here looking for advice, were given sound advice, and you're just going to ignore it and do what you want anyway, which is what you had in mind in the first place. In that case, go ahead and try to start your gun shop as an 18yo. See how that works out for you.
Plan2Live
Member
Good thing the folks over at Palmetto State Armory didnt' listen to the nay sayers, and no, they weren't doing something no one had done before (fly), they just believed they could do it a little better than the next guy.
Someone a whole lot smarter than me once said, "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are probably right." Decide which answer lies within your heart before you start then stick to that belief and act accordingly.
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