would you buy a glock?
- Thread starter cameramonkey
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shooter.45
Member
Yup I would and did I have a G34 and I am picking up a G19 today. As far as looks go and everyone saying they are ugly. Well its not a beauty contest and I know it goes bang every time. I do have 2 sigs but love those glocks. they just plain work.... 
Gary G23
Member
I wouldn't buy a Glock 19. But if you have your heart set on it I would get some 9mm3 followers for both my ten round and fifteen round mags. That's the only way I could get mine to be reliable.
rauchman
Member
Have a G19 and a Sig 226 & 225 among others. As others have said here, they are both stone cold reliable. Accuracy, I think it's easier to be accurate on the Sigs but with enough practice, the Glocks are accurate as well. The Sigs have finesse, the Glocks have the utilitarian tool thing happening. Someone else mentioned the Sig Pro. Really nice pistol as well. Can't go wrong either way. See which fits the best and naturally works for you.
shooter.45
Member
It already bought some just in case but it is not every 19. And for 4.00 its worth it the G19 is a great gun..
Dean Speir
Member
seed speculates:
I'm not sure how it could possibly related to the "NY Trigger" (actually a "connector") and I don't even think that Glock, Inc. has ever tried to float that one.
When it first surfaced in NYPD in 1996, Glock successfully argued that it was ammo-related… but then that's always been Glock's second line of defense, right after "the shooter is limp-wristing." At the time, NYPD's issue round was the "Winchester White Box" USA-brand 115-grain FMJ, and random samples testing revealed that the round was close to the bottom end of the 1050 fps specification, and that some even fell below that.
Then, the Black and Hispanic community leaders hysterical protestations that "hollow-point bullets are designed to maim and kill young men of color" having been overcome, NYPD finally was able to switch to the 124-grain +P Gold Dot HPs, the velocities of which should surely have addressed any sort of Phase 3 stoppages due to "under-powered ammo."
They persisted, and two years ago Glock was finally forced, in order to keep NYPD in their column, to set up a "temporary machine shop" at Rodman's Neck in order to perform some milling procedures to the NYPD pistols… which process, BTW, was not designed to prevent the Phase 3 malfunctions so much as make them easier to clear should they occur.
Why have those stoppages been almost the exclusive provenance of NYPD (with a smattering of such reports from Philadelphia, Boston and the District of Columbia)? No one's ever figured that out… but I have a good chum, a former NYPD MOS and Senior Gunsite staffer, who has experienced more than one hundred (100) with his "teaching Model 19" (privatedly purchased and not issued to him) all over the USA! He's become quite adept at clearing same.
With all that though, to get back to Cameramonkey's original inquiry, I think that the Glock Model 19 is a superior choice for a 9 X 19mm pistol, arguably the second most excellent "CCW Glock" after the Model 30.
By the same token, the SIG P228 is a kick-arse PDW as well… but the Glock 19 is probably a lot more durable and would require a less intensive maintenance regimen.
seed speculates:
The NYPD Phase 3 issue is one of the most curious firearms syndromes since the perplexing "2.8 Bullseye Surprise," but it's real.
I'm not sure how it could possibly related to the "NY Trigger" (actually a "connector") and I don't even think that Glock, Inc. has ever tried to float that one.
When it first surfaced in NYPD in 1996, Glock successfully argued that it was ammo-related… but then that's always been Glock's second line of defense, right after "the shooter is limp-wristing." At the time, NYPD's issue round was the "Winchester White Box" USA-brand 115-grain FMJ, and random samples testing revealed that the round was close to the bottom end of the 1050 fps specification, and that some even fell below that.
Then, the Black and Hispanic community leaders hysterical protestations that "hollow-point bullets are designed to maim and kill young men of color" having been overcome, NYPD finally was able to switch to the 124-grain +P Gold Dot HPs, the velocities of which should surely have addressed any sort of Phase 3 stoppages due to "under-powered ammo."
They persisted, and two years ago Glock was finally forced, in order to keep NYPD in their column, to set up a "temporary machine shop" at Rodman's Neck in order to perform some milling procedures to the NYPD pistols… which process, BTW, was not designed to prevent the Phase 3 malfunctions so much as make them easier to clear should they occur.
Why have those stoppages been almost the exclusive provenance of NYPD (with a smattering of such reports from Philadelphia, Boston and the District of Columbia)? No one's ever figured that out… but I have a good chum, a former NYPD MOS and Senior Gunsite staffer, who has experienced more than one hundred (100) with his "teaching Model 19" (privatedly purchased and not issued to him) all over the USA! He's become quite adept at clearing same.
With all that though, to get back to Cameramonkey's original inquiry, I think that the Glock Model 19 is a superior choice for a 9 X 19mm pistol, arguably the second most excellent "CCW Glock" after the Model 30.
By the same token, the SIG P228 is a kick-arse PDW as well… but the Glock 19 is probably a lot more durable and would require a less intensive maintenance regimen.
MrAcheson
Member
I prefer Sigs, I find them easier to shoot with better triggers and better quality than glocks. But I'm not you. Glocks are good reliable guns. They have their problems but everything has its quirks. If you really like them better then go with one, otherwise get the sig.
M2 Carbine
member
No I wouldn't buy a Glock.
I wouldn't accept a free model 17 that a friend tried to give me.
Well, you asked
I wouldn't accept a free model 17 that a friend tried to give me.
Well, you asked
Mr. Speir,
Yeah, like I said I don't remember where I heard that the New York trigger set-up may have had something to do with the phase 3 malfunction, but it always seemed a long shot to me. By the way, I wasn't sure if they went the route of the 8 lb. leaf/push spring or the connector. Either way, as much as I tried to figure out how an 8 lb. configuration of any sort could contribute to a phase 3 malfunction, I couldn't. Floated it, just in case though.
As for the machining that was done to the NYPD 19's, was it similar to the redesign of the ejection ports and extractors with which all Glocks have been manufactured since the mid-1990's? I could see how that could help prevent these malfunctions and or ease the procedures of clearing them.
Sorry for the drift.
seed.
Yeah, like I said I don't remember where I heard that the New York trigger set-up may have had something to do with the phase 3 malfunction, but it always seemed a long shot to me. By the way, I wasn't sure if they went the route of the 8 lb. leaf/push spring or the connector. Either way, as much as I tried to figure out how an 8 lb. configuration of any sort could contribute to a phase 3 malfunction, I couldn't. Floated it, just in case though.
As for the machining that was done to the NYPD 19's, was it similar to the redesign of the ejection ports and extractors with which all Glocks have been manufactured since the mid-1990's? I could see how that could help prevent these malfunctions and or ease the procedures of clearing them.
Sorry for the drift.
seed.
bradvanhorn
Member
M2 Carbine - please accept said Glock 17 and forward to me. I'll make sure it's properly taken care of.
This is a tough call really. I've owned both, and I think I'd have to say go with the Glock 19. Back when I first got into handguns (wow, a whole 12 years ago) I bought the then new Glock 22. The Glock was nice, but then one day I handled a Sig P228 at the gun store. Good-bye Glock, hello Sig. Well now I've come full circle (sort of).
I say go with the Glock. The Sig trigger is nicer, yet the traditional double/single thing is a pain in the rear to train; the Glock trigger is not great, but at least it's consistent (plus you can tune it and it actually can be pretty good). Both have a less than ideal grip angle for me, but the lower bore to grip axis of the Glock is more inviting.
Sig makes me think of refinement and quality. Glock makes me think of simplicity (sort of) and ruggedness. Either will serve you well; as I said it's a tough call.
This is a tough call really. I've owned both, and I think I'd have to say go with the Glock 19. Back when I first got into handguns (wow, a whole 12 years ago) I bought the then new Glock 22. The Glock was nice, but then one day I handled a Sig P228 at the gun store. Good-bye Glock, hello Sig. Well now I've come full circle (sort of).
I say go with the Glock. The Sig trigger is nicer, yet the traditional double/single thing is a pain in the rear to train; the Glock trigger is not great, but at least it's consistent (plus you can tune it and it actually can be pretty good). Both have a less than ideal grip angle for me, but the lower bore to grip axis of the Glock is more inviting.
Sig makes me think of refinement and quality. Glock makes me think of simplicity (sort of) and ruggedness. Either will serve you well; as I said it's a tough call.
M2 Carbine
member
"bradvanhorn
M2 Carbine - please accept said Glock 17 and forward to me. I'll make sure it's properly taken care of. "
Well that's the thing. If I took it from a friend I'd feel obligated to keep it. I wouldn't feel right giving it away or dumping it at a gun show.
I had it around here for months and finally told him to get the darned thing out of my house.
He kept throwing money at it until, I think it works now.
For some reason he bought a model 19.
I think there's some kind of problem with the 19's isn't there?
He says it broke and will have to be sent in to be fixed.
M2 Carbine - please accept said Glock 17 and forward to me. I'll make sure it's properly taken care of. "
Well that's the thing. If I took it from a friend I'd feel obligated to keep it. I wouldn't feel right giving it away or dumping it at a gun show.
I had it around here for months and finally told him to get the darned thing out of my house.
He kept throwing money at it until, I think it works now.
For some reason he bought a model 19.
I think there's some kind of problem with the 19's isn't there?
He says it broke and will have to be sent in to be fixed.
Dave Sample
member
NO!
I own both. Both have their strong and weak points.
First the 228: As mentioned this is a better built, higher quality pistol. It has a great trigger and is quite accurate. I could keep going but its strong points have been covered by others. Weak points would be the high bore axis. My biggest complaint would be the sharp edges. I carry this gun in the exact same slide holster as my Glock 19. It is not nearly as comfortable to carry as the 19. It is heavier and digs into my side. It is also bulkier than the 19. Because of this it sits in the safe most of the time. But it is a nicely made gun and worth the money in comparison to other guns in its class.
THe Glock 19: It has a lower bore axis. The finish is great for everyday carry. It is light. I carry it around the ranch all day in my slide holster and never know it is there. I don't think you can hurt it and it requires little in the way of maintenance. I also like the fact to shoot it you just pull the trigger and go on about your business. The weak points are it is not what I would call a finely made firearm. More of a tool then a work of art. The controls are as basic/cheap as they come, but they work.
My opinion: when I bought the 19 the Springfield XD was not around yet. If it was I would go that route. Reason being I can get an XD at gun shows for around $360-$380. Also the XD has better quality controls compared to the Glock. The XD barrel is of standard rifling so I can shoot lead (I am a reloader so this matters to me, by the way Sig can shoot lead also) for economy instead of being stuck with jacketed bullets. I like the piece of mind of the grip safety. You can use XD .40 cal mags for cheap high capacity mags instead of the high dollar preban sig and glock mags. The only down side I see is the XD does not the Tefiner finish the Glock has but i could live with it because I don't care if my pistol/tool has wear marks. The one unknown is if it carries as comfortably as the Glock. That is a big one to me since the one that carries the best is the one I grab (in my case th Glock 19 for no other reason).
Good Luck,
Brazos
First the 228: As mentioned this is a better built, higher quality pistol. It has a great trigger and is quite accurate. I could keep going but its strong points have been covered by others. Weak points would be the high bore axis. My biggest complaint would be the sharp edges. I carry this gun in the exact same slide holster as my Glock 19. It is not nearly as comfortable to carry as the 19. It is heavier and digs into my side. It is also bulkier than the 19. Because of this it sits in the safe most of the time. But it is a nicely made gun and worth the money in comparison to other guns in its class.
THe Glock 19: It has a lower bore axis. The finish is great for everyday carry. It is light. I carry it around the ranch all day in my slide holster and never know it is there. I don't think you can hurt it and it requires little in the way of maintenance. I also like the fact to shoot it you just pull the trigger and go on about your business. The weak points are it is not what I would call a finely made firearm. More of a tool then a work of art. The controls are as basic/cheap as they come, but they work.
My opinion: when I bought the 19 the Springfield XD was not around yet. If it was I would go that route. Reason being I can get an XD at gun shows for around $360-$380. Also the XD has better quality controls compared to the Glock. The XD barrel is of standard rifling so I can shoot lead (I am a reloader so this matters to me, by the way Sig can shoot lead also) for economy instead of being stuck with jacketed bullets. I like the piece of mind of the grip safety. You can use XD .40 cal mags for cheap high capacity mags instead of the high dollar preban sig and glock mags. The only down side I see is the XD does not the Tefiner finish the Glock has but i could live with it because I don't care if my pistol/tool has wear marks. The one unknown is if it carries as comfortably as the Glock. That is a big one to me since the one that carries the best is the one I grab (in my case th Glock 19 for no other reason).
Good Luck,
Brazos
M2 Carbine
member
"Dave Sample
NO!"
I don't know Dave.
My buddy said there was a recall on his Glock 19.
I thought he said he had a broken slide rail so I just searched Glock malfunctions and came up with this.
Sounds serious to me but I guess all the Glock owners already know about this and it's no big deal.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems.html
Glock has recently discovered a serious structual problem with their guns. They redesigned their rear slide rails many years ago to make them longer, but for some reason shortened them again in the last couple of years¹. This shorter rail, coupled with some bad steel and a machine that stamped the rails incorrectly, is now causing some rear rails to break off the guns². When the rail breaks, it can lock up the gun. Not a good thing in a gunfight.
Glock recently went to the FBI and told them about this problem and quietly replaced over 700 frames. They apparently have no intention to tell their other customers about this problem. This problem affects ALL models of Glocks and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF GUNS. What about the DC Police with 4000 guns, NYPD with 35000 guns.
They have a major recall situation on their hands, but like their infamous "upgrade," this will never be called a recall. This needs to be investigated and publicized to make Glock take care of their other customers and not give preference to the big FBI.
NO!"
I don't know Dave.
My buddy said there was a recall on his Glock 19.
I thought he said he had a broken slide rail so I just searched Glock malfunctions and came up with this.
Sounds serious to me but I guess all the Glock owners already know about this and it's no big deal.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/problems.html
Glock has recently discovered a serious structual problem with their guns. They redesigned their rear slide rails many years ago to make them longer, but for some reason shortened them again in the last couple of years¹. This shorter rail, coupled with some bad steel and a machine that stamped the rails incorrectly, is now causing some rear rails to break off the guns². When the rail breaks, it can lock up the gun. Not a good thing in a gunfight.
Glock recently went to the FBI and told them about this problem and quietly replaced over 700 frames. They apparently have no intention to tell their other customers about this problem. This problem affects ALL models of Glocks and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF GUNS. What about the DC Police with 4000 guns, NYPD with 35000 guns.
They have a major recall situation on their hands, but like their infamous "upgrade," this will never be called a recall. This needs to be investigated and publicized to make Glock take care of their other customers and not give preference to the big FBI.
There are hundreds of thousands of Glocks out there. At least half of those are G17s and G19s. I've shot dozens of 9mm Glocks and all the other calibers too. I carry a .45 ACP G30 every day.
I've yet to see one of the 19s malfunction, and even then, it's magazine related. 99.5 % of Glock magazines and Glocks are reliable, just lately a few have been having problems. Five G19s with mag problems at the range with one mag being talked about on the internet ends up being "5,000 Glock 19s have jammed and exploded in the middle of a firefight".
Either is a good piece, between the 19 and the 228, i prefer the 19, and have trusted my life to one many times.
I've yet to see one of the 19s malfunction, and even then, it's magazine related. 99.5 % of Glock magazines and Glocks are reliable, just lately a few have been having problems. Five G19s with mag problems at the range with one mag being talked about on the internet ends up being "5,000 Glock 19s have jammed and exploded in the middle of a firefight".
Either is a good piece, between the 19 and the 228, i prefer the 19, and have trusted my life to one many times.
CZ52GUY
Member
I don't own the G19 or P228 (yet), but I've had the opportunity to shoot both and know happy owners of both.
I do own a G23 (.40 version of G19), and a Sig Pro 2009 which functions similarly to the P228.
Both are fine pieces.
If you are shooting IDPA, I find the simplicity of the Glock to be an advantage starting out. There are some terrific shooters toting Sig's that burn up the course at our matches, but the DA/SA trigger transition does take some getting used to...you'll find the non-dom' string in the Classifier a bit of an adventure with the Sig' unless you practice diligently in advance. The HS string also requires good discipline in your DA/SA transition.
Both are good choices for SD if you are comfortable with the 9mm platform. Given that AWB looks to expire (unless the anti's can pull something out of their hat), the 15-rd G-19 mag's look to be cheaper than the 13-rd P228 mag's (if that's important to you).
I found the ergonomics of the P228 to be a little better than the Glock, and the "return to sight picture" on follow-ups with the Sig' was superb! All things being equal, I'd argue that with practice, the Sig' may be a bit more accurate.
You've chosen two good pieces...hard to argue with either as long as you are happy in the end.
Bottom line, I still favor ergonomics over all other factors assuming side-by-side quality. Choose what fits you best.
Good luck!
CZ52'
I do own a G23 (.40 version of G19), and a Sig Pro 2009 which functions similarly to the P228.
Both are fine pieces.
If you are shooting IDPA, I find the simplicity of the Glock to be an advantage starting out. There are some terrific shooters toting Sig's that burn up the course at our matches, but the DA/SA trigger transition does take some getting used to...you'll find the non-dom' string in the Classifier a bit of an adventure with the Sig' unless you practice diligently in advance. The HS string also requires good discipline in your DA/SA transition.
Both are good choices for SD if you are comfortable with the 9mm platform. Given that AWB looks to expire (unless the anti's can pull something out of their hat), the 15-rd G-19 mag's look to be cheaper than the 13-rd P228 mag's (if that's important to you).
I found the ergonomics of the P228 to be a little better than the Glock, and the "return to sight picture" on follow-ups with the Sig' was superb! All things being equal, I'd argue that with practice, the Sig' may be a bit more accurate.
You've chosen two good pieces...hard to argue with either as long as you are happy in the end.
Bottom line, I still favor ergonomics over all other factors assuming side-by-side quality. Choose what fits you best.
Good luck!
CZ52'
mcmoyer
Member
I currently own a G19, and several other Glocks and not had a problem with any of them. My wife loves the 19, I am particularly fond of my second generation G20. As others have said, Glocks are like tools...very functional. I like the look of Sigs and have fondled them at gun shows. I guess the problem (for me) with the Sigs is that they just don't feel right in my hand so I haven't bought one (yet).
I also love the looks of Mustang GT's. No matter how hard I try to fit in one my head still sticks out the sun roof. Maybe one day I'll get the Sig AND the Mustang.
I also love the looks of Mustang GT's. No matter how hard I try to fit in one my head still sticks out the sun roof. Maybe one day I'll get the Sig AND the Mustang.
cameramonkey
Member
Thanks for all of the replies. I'm still uncertain about the glock 19. The main deterrent for me is the "phase 3 malfunctions mystery" and the out of battery misfires that have been reported on various group sites. Mr. Speir's web site has been an interesting read and has further fueled my concern about the glock's issues. It's difficult for me because I actually think that the glock 19 fit me better. I liked the way it shot, and I like that the trigger is consistent (not da/sa), the finish is durable, and it is easier to clean and maintain. I really like this gun, but I'm very hesitant about purchasing it still. I know I probably sound silly about this and that I will ultimately have to make a decision. I just don't know what to do. :banghead:
I'd consider the XD in 9mm, but I've never had the opportunity to shoot one and I don't feel that it's had a long enough track record to consider purchasing one. It does intrigue me though..... maybe in the future. But my dilemma is in the present.....
I'd consider the XD in 9mm, but I've never had the opportunity to shoot one and I don't feel that it's had a long enough track record to consider purchasing one. It does intrigue me though..... maybe in the future. But my dilemma is in the present.....
Mastrogiacomo
Member
I read the same stuff and had the same concerns, still bought the Glock 19 and very glad I did. Will be adding to my Glock collection when they become available again in my state.
Laura
Laura
dairycreek
Member
I have owned six Glocks over the years.
And now I don't own any! But, don't ask me to say anything bad about a Glock. It is a fine, reliable, efficient, and effective hand gun. I just lost my enthusiasm for Glocks. Glock purchase vs. a SIG? IMO there is no question that the SIG is just a classier weapon. Cost more? Yes! Worth more? Absolutely yes! Good shooting
And now I don't own any! But, don't ask me to say anything bad about a Glock. It is a fine, reliable, efficient, and effective hand gun. I just lost my enthusiasm for Glocks. Glock purchase vs. a SIG? IMO there is no question that the SIG is just a classier weapon. Cost more? Yes! Worth more? Absolutely yes! Good shooting
I would buy another Glock. I own a Glock 19 as well as a Glock 22, 23, 26 and 27. I have found all my Glocks to be very reliable. I shoot my Glock 19 at IDPA and I find that I shoot it very fast and accurately. My father has a Sig Sauer P228. It is a fine gun that has an excellent trigger for DA/SA semi auto. Howerver, I prefer my Glock because it has a consistant trigger and is very lightweight and corrosion resistant.
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