Would you ever use your bayonet for home defense/hunting?

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They were originally designed by a Frenchman for bear hunting with a muzzle loader? Correct?

Sooo..... If I was hunting dangerous game with a muzzle loader, and I was prohibited from carrying a pistol, I would want a bayonet on it.

MN allows the holder of a carry permit to carry any pistol they care to holster in the field. So no, I would never want a bayonet for any other purpose than collecting.

Mosin Nagant rifles will not shoot to POA without the bayonet fixed in many cases. Mine was more accurate without the bayonet, but the sights needed adjustment.

No. The bayonets were designed to keep the cavalry away, effectively replacing pikes. Before they were invented, more than half of the infantry were pikemen who, after the muskets were perfected, didn't really do much on the battlefield other than being a static deterrent to cavalry charges.

The bayonets become pretty obsolete once the repeating rifles and machine guns appeared, however armies kept them since the bayonet charges were so ingrained into military tradition.

In WW2 Soviets used bayonets but their preferred weapon for closed hand to hand combat (other than submachine guns) was a sharpened trench shovel. At least from what I read.

As to hunting the big game with bayonets, this is a misunderstanding. Back in the XIX century and before in Russia, they hunted bears with a "rogatina" which was basically a two-pronged pike or lance. The hunter would wait for the bear to attack him - at which point the bear will stand up on hind legs - stake one end of the rogatina into the ground, and impale the bear on the prongs which prevented the bear from reaching down & clawing the hunter. This was still very dangerous. Using a bayonet attached to a rifle would've been simply suicidal.

At to your second point, this is true. Mosins were designed to be used with bayonets, at least the early ones. So they were probably zeroed in with one attached. The bayonet charges were a big thing in the old Russian army, just like Banzai charges for the Japanese. Must've had something to do with having large numbers of very brave but poorly trained peasant recruits.
 
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Bayonets went out with the mounted charge...
But you wanted a pic of a pig sticker... here you go:
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And no I would never use that for HD or hunting. That is just plain silly.
That thing looks like a beast. Just seeing it would make me wanna move. Which is why I don't understand why people wouldn't appreciate them as weapons.
 
Would you ever use them for hunting or home defense?

What would ever give you the idea a fixed bayonet is an appropriate tool for either of these applications? I'm serious, I'd like to know what would make any reasonable person think of such things as this.
How does it not make sense. I watched some show about dangerous attractions. guy got killed by an angry deer I thought I wouldn't ever enter a enclosed area with bucks without a weapon then I thought about a rifle with 5 rd capacity and figured a bayonet would be worth it as reloading while getting slapped around by a deer wouldn't be easy.
 
That thing looks like a beast. Just seeing it would make me wanna move. Which is why I don't understand why people wouldn't appreciate them as weapons.

Because they are unwieldy and require much training to be used effectively, and usually hinder the shooting. Especially these sword-like bayonets were already obsolete by WW1. Most if not all bayonets designed in the early to mid XX century were just long enough to get the job done, and often were multi-purpose tools (could be used as wire cutters, knives etc.)
 
How does it not make sense. I watched some show about dangerous attractions. guy got killed by an angry deer I thought I wouldn't ever enter a enclosed area with bucks without a weapon then I thought about a rifle with 5 rd capacity and figured a bayonet would be worth it as reloading while getting slapped around by a deer wouldn't be easy.

If you can't fight an angry deer off with 5 rifle rounds you have a problem that no bayonet can help with.
 
If you can't fight an angry deer off with 5 rifle rounds you have a problem that no bayonet can help with.
well as it was an enclosure and the buck was already 10-5 yards away I'm assuming you'd have about as much time to just lift up the rifle and it would impale itself upon the bayonet.
 
I'd use the Swedish bayonet as a pig sticker, since it has the sharpest point available on a bayonet. Most bayonets are dull and blunt.
The Jamamatic-16 bayonets I've owned have had pretty soft blades. German, Swiss, or Swedish steel is much better.
Would I use one? Sure, at bad breath range. But, only if it was sharp and pointy. Most bayonets are only useful for prodding. Too dull.
Guess that's what hones are for.
If I was using an SMLE and ran dry, I'd probably grab it by the muzzle and swing it like a bat, like the Aussies did.
Can't do that with a gun made of plastic/aluminum or sheetmetal.
Don't want to do that with a one piece stock, either, unless you have no choice.
However, with a two piece stock using a through bolt, you have the wrist under compression with a steel core. Very strong.

In the case of a home invasion, I'd just talk to them and try to understand what they were feeling when they decided to invade my home. Maybe they needed my money to support their children.
And monkeys will fly out of my butt.
 
I'd use the Swedish bayonet as a pig sticker, since it has the sharpest point available on a bayonet. Most bayonets are dull and blunt.
The Jamamatic-16 bayonets I've owned have had pretty soft blades. German, Swiss, or Swedish steel is much better.
Would I use one? Sure, at bad breath range. But, only if it was sharp and pointy. Most bayonets are only useful for prodding. Too dull.
Guess that's what hones are for.
If I was using an SMLE and ran dry, I'd probably grab it by the muzzle and swing it like a bat, like the Aussies did.
Can't do that with a gun made of plastic/aluminum or sheetmetal.
Don't want to do that with a one piece stock, either, unless you have no choice.
However, with a two piece stock using a through bolt, you have the wrist under compression with a steel core. Very strong.

In the case of a home invasion, I'd just talk to them and try to understand what they were feeling when they decided to invade my home. Maybe they needed my money to support their children.
And monkeys will fly out of my butt.
At least your courtious enough to talk to your assailant
 
Never said it was not a weapon. But just like trench warfare is long gone the bayonet is no longer a front line means of defense. I'd use it if I had to, but not attached to the rifle and only after exhausting all other means of defense.
 
I just feel kinda weird about it to me it seems they are equally effective at killing either burglars or angry animals yet they aren't utilized. Its adding range onto a knife which is nice . as people have said it changes some things when you fire it but could it possibly change it so much that in a hd situation from 1-20 or so yards? hunting not entirely sure as to how far you are but from what ive heard in Ny the deer aren't always super far away.
 
A bayonet equipped rifle/shotgun is more of a field expedient lance, not a spear.
Spears are thrown, lances are thrust/swept.
I'd use it attached to the muzzle before I'd use it handheld. you have more leverage that way.
It's normally a bit of a moot point, but if I had to, I would. If I didn't have to, I wouldn't.
I'd rather use a lance, short sword, Khukuri, tomahawk, mace(the medieval type, not the spray) or large Bowie. As mentioned previously, a good entrenching too. is no joke. The ones with a mattock spike opposite the blade are nasty.
If your gun has a mechanical failure, such as a broken pin, your ammo count is irrelevant.

While it's true that trench warfare is currently a non-issue, it was a very up close and personal fight. Not unlike CQB of today. Punching range is punching range, whether you're in a trench or in a building.

Besides, you may not have enough ammo to neutralize all the zombies. Then, your choices are to lance them or get turned into one. ;)
 
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I watched some show

:rolleyes:

Look, go get a 12 inch stick and tape it to a military rifle, assuming you have one, and try slashing and thrusting around the house. Once you've wrecked the place ask if it wouldn't have been easier to have just pulled the trigger.

WE discuss ways to defend ourselves without firearms all the time and no one takes this idea of your's seriously. A bayonet on the end of a rifle is too clumsy a weapon for home defense. You can keep saying I don't understand or that you watched some show or that you just can't accept it, but that's the fact. Almost everyone here would feel more prepared with a chef's knife than a clumsy rifle with a bayonet on it (if there weren't any bullets in the stupid thing). You can slash and thrust and move fluidly with a big knife while that silly piece of firewood with the pokey thing on the end doesn't even thrust well unless you've been well trained in bayonet drills. As far as slashing and movement are concerned it is a hindrance.

Long guns have disadvantages because of weight and maneuverability in houses. The longer the gun the worse it gets. Add a bayonet on the end of that nice long rifle and you're even clumsier than with the rifle alone. The point of HD is to use your knowledge of your terrain to your advantage and to fort up forcing the BG in your home to come to you, preferably down a "fatal funnel" like stairwell or hallway. You don't go flailing around the house hunting for trouble so you can get jumped by some hopped up criminal because you've got 4 ft. of clumsy hardwood and steel poking around in the dark.
 
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For hunting, no.

For home defense, the typical room and hallway dimensions have the bad guy at no more than 3 paces from you. A bayonet IMO is not unreasonable. Having said that, I could see a legal quagmire should you use it. I personally don't have one mounted.
 
As I said during 30 years of various military service.
"Instead of making me carry this big, dull, stupid 2 pound bayonet around, why not let me carry a pistol that weighs the same? "
Dude, no S. I was in the infantry for chrissake, and I NEVER ONCE drew a bayonet from the arms room. NOT ONCE. Every time I deployed, I'd leave it behind too. If they ever had made me carry it, I'd have lost it along the way and just paid for it. I hated carrying it that much.

Now a good field knife, that was different, but I drew the line at the KaBar, and it was only useful for so much. Best knife for a soldier has GOT to be that little Gerber Applegate/Fairbairn folder, the tiny one, or something like it. Most useful though is a certain plastic safety coupon cutter you can get. It is tiny, fits on your gear easy, doesn't cut you, and you just pull 550 cord through it and it cuts it right up. Considering this is 90% of what you'll be cutting, that makes it the most valuable tool.

If you find yourself fighting with a knife, and the fight isn't over in seconds, you've probably done lost. Knife fighting takes skill most of us don't have the time or need for anymore. I'm great with a rifle, good with a pistol, okay at groundfighting, but I have no illusions that I am any degree of knife fighter. They just don't exist by and large, particularly in the US.

I've run the bayonet course in the army, but thank God only one day at basic. I must admit it was fun, but kind of useless. We broke otherwise decent M16's and a bunch of dummy rifles (they have a rubber receiver and are built out of varying amounts of real parts --some are all plastic with just the barrel, some have just plastic receivers, so they do recycle some of the weapons...). You take your DPMS rifle and do that with it, expect broken parts. Mil spec doesn't even hold up. Personally, I think the only reason they do it still is because of tradition (nobody has come along with enough authority and told them how stupid it is yet) and because of bloodlust.

Nothing gets you pumped up and violent for no reason like that bayonet course. Nothing. Only place I ever saw rifles get broken like sticks and dudes so fired up over nothing, ready to KILL.

But for HD? Judging by the OP and some of the responses, it must be a young thing. If not, if you are an adult, then you are definitely a mall ninja, no doubt about it, and probably a high ranking one too, like a general or something. As a kid, I was fascinated with bayonets too. I don't know why, but I still have a Mauser bayonet from Toledo 1895 --blade is spring steel, it bends but snaps back. Sure don't make 'em like that anymore! And for hunting, pretty sure that is under "mutilation of animals" and is illegal most everywhere. It is also cruel too. A bayonet doesn't kill fast and painless, it is like getting stuck with a tire iron. So unless you are an aspiring serial killer and like to make animals suffer, just stick to a pistol to the head or a sharp blade for desanguination. If you are using this to put game down, I hope you trip and fall on it on the way out, you deserve it.

Finally, as has been mentioned, it ruins any zero you may have had. It ruins handling. If you think an FAL is too big for negotiating rooms, you might be surprised to learn it is better than an M4 with a bayonet. At least it doesn't get hung up on crap.

In the future, to keep from looking TOO novice or like a GAP GI Joe, keep the bayonet discussions limited to collecting. Just a little advice, as that is what they are good for really. That and parading around in your tighty whiteys, flip flops and army helmet with a beer in one hand and a bayonet affixed to an M4 in the other, but that's a different story.

Bayonets indeed.
 
I hate to tell you, but unleashing a load of buckshot is going to trash the house, too.
Projectiles have a way of passing through bodies and causing damage to other things.
Human bodies make terrible bullet stops.
I completely disagree with you about the diffuculty of lancing with a bayonet. It's not that bad.
That said, a full sized battle rifle would be very low on the list of weapons I'd use for home defense. Too clumsy in tight quarters. Too powerful for in home use.
Coach gun or riot gun is first on the list, followed by a revolver or auto firing .44 special, .45 Colt, or .45 ACP would way up the totem pole.
That said, edged weapons are pretty far down the totem pole for HD, as well. They're every bit as deadly as firearms. Often more so. But, they often incapacitate more slowly, unless you're wielding a short sword, Khukuri, or tomahawk.
They also tend to be frowned upon by our legal system for such use.

Once again, I would if I had to. If I didn't have to, I wouldn't. There are more expedient options available.
 
it seems they are equally effective at killing either burglars or angry animals

Evidence, please?

Every mention of a bayonet stabbing in the first 50 results of a search I just did brought up the use of the bayonet in a criminal act.

I've seen more stories in the past couple of years on the use of samurai swords by 'good guys' as defensive weapons than bayonets. And even that is pretty rare.
 
For what it's worth, I know several people that actively hunt boar/pig here in Florida using a Mosin Nagant (a couple actually use the longer 91/30 but most use the M44 or M39) and fixed bayonet. 5 rds is plenty for hunting, but if you happen to have more than 5 pigs in your sights chances are one or more of them may very well charge, and we all know the pig will cover 10 yards faster than a person could. Florida is good for close range, exciting pig hunts. I'd feel better with a bayonet on my rifle in a situation where I might not be able to transition to my sidearm quickly enough.
 
Why is it we can't accept that there are some things which are very cool and yet aren't appropriate for holing up in a bedroom while you wait for the police? My M44's bayonet is completely awesome, I want a giant folding bayonet on every gun, but part of being a grownup is resisting the urge to attach things to guns.
 
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