would you shoot?

[griz]

About two weeks ago three young people walked into the local Elks lodge during their weekly bingo night. They had guns and took the nights receipts and robbed about 150 people who were playing. I'm a bit surprized that nobody there was armed (legaly in VA). That brings up my question:
If you were being robbed in a similar situation and were carrying a legal concealed gun, would you hand over your wallet/purse, or would you shoot them?

I've given it some thought and don't know what I would do.

On the give your money side, they were young and given their knowledge of the place it seemed likely they would be caught. Indeed they were caught a couple days later. It also seems they couldn't have planned to shoot cooperative victims, since they were so outnumbered.

On the shoot side, it's MY money and I don't like the idea of being robbed.

Given that we weren't there, what do you think you would have done?

 

[TarpleyG]

Only if I felt that my life or a limb was in danger and that is a very low threshold for me. So, maybe. For instance, if one had pointed a gun at me.

GT

 

[Bacchus]

Got a link to the original story?

 

[griz]

You can get the story from www.dailypress.com, but I believe you have to pay for it after it's a week old. They also have the story of them getting caught. One came in an hour or two before the robbery and was remembered. Local boys and girls that didn't think anybody would figure it out.

 

[olyAR73]

Well it seems the bad guys were only interested in money so jumping up guns a blazing against 3 armed bad guys probably wouldnt have been justified in this situation.

Someone may have been armed, but better judgement prevailed?

 

[griz]

Someone may have been armed, but better judgement prevailed?

Very possible. That's what got me wondering, this was as close as I have seen to sure bet that if you give up your money you won't get hurt. Nothing is 100 percent, but it looked close to a choice between shooting or handing over the wallet. I think I would lean toward giving them the money because shooting the one who was doing the collecting could well get the others BGs to shoot more cooperative victims.

 

[P95Carry]

From the remote position of my keyboard ... it's a difficult call.

If the perps were using firearms in an obviously ''intimidation only'' mode ... at least, as far as most might have judged ... then perhaps best it went down as it did.

But then as ever ... how to judge that fine divide between a gun toter who is just threatening .. and one who in an instant decides to use it.

Probably, had anyone taken them on (and with three perhaps the odds not too good for just one CCW taking action) it could have been seen as a justified shoot. But so many other factors ....

Maybe one or two were packing but could see no safe way to employ their pieces .... no good blasting the perps if innocents get hit too.

One of those I think ''you needed to have been there'' scenarios.

 

[olyAR73]

Sure.
If some guy comes up with a weapon and tells me to hand over my wallet, car keys, and watch I would comply. None of those things are worth dying for, or killing someone else for.

On the the other hand, if he attempts to move me to a different location, seems completely irrational, ect. I would take my chances with the ever present G19 or benchmade.

 

[critter]

Obviously, this turned out well so the right decision was made. It is impossible to know what it RIGHT in the middle of a situation. It is getting to where the 'crack heads' and the downright 'mean and don't care' thugs shoot cooperative people just for the fun of it.

With that in mind, in a situation with ONE perp and only a few (1-3) vic's, even with a just 'hand over the money' deal by an ARMED perp, IF I GET A RESONABLE CHANCE, I will take whatever means at my disposal to "get him to cease and desist from his criminal ways" if you know what I mean. It is NOT just because I do not want to lose my money-you never know when they will shoot you just to see you fall.

More perps and/or more vic's will vastly increase the liklihood of somebody (innocents) getting hurt and I would be less likely to act. Increase the level of violence by the perps or my knowledge of others in the place who are armed, proficient and willing to act will increase my liklyhood of action.

In any case, IF YOU START the action, DO NOT STOP TILL ALL THE THREATS ARE NEUTRALIZED.

DIFFICULT decision I hope we never have to make!

 

[TonyB]

Yeah,this IS a tough one.....I've thought about this alot...I have a parttime job in a retail Pharmacy......people taking the store's money doesn't bother me....but what if I had a gun pointed at me???or a co-worker???I carry at this job so it makes me think about how I would react......I think if a gun is pointed at you ,you NEED to assume the scumbag is going to shoot......now I agree with the poster who said they wouldn't be taken or moved to another location also...that's only a bag thing(they aren't going to take you Chucky Chesse for a pizza)Hostage situations are different too.......I'd like to think I could read the situation...hope fully I'll never havr to find out...

 

[cdbeaver]

It wasn't too long ago that four punks walked into a Norfolk, Nebraska, bank and within 10 seconds shot and killed five people inside. I doubt whether any one, even armed, could have done anything to avoid the tragedy.

But Nebraska is not a ccw state, so we may never know for sure.

Incidentally, all four knotheads have been tried, convicted and sentenced to death for the senseless killings.

 

[Pappy John]

I think the presence of 149 bystanders would lead me to keep it on my belt. Too much chance of things going really REALLY bad.

 

[Okiecruffler]

Too many people have been shot after complying with armed assailants. And it does me and family little good if they are caught after the fact and sentenced to death. Besides, what's mine is mine, I worked for it, you want it, you're going to have to work for it just as hard. Every situation is different, so it's impossible to say unless you were actually in the place. But if you have a gun on me, you'd better pay very close attention. If I get the slimmest chance, I'm gonna do you some serious damage.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If it pulls a knife or gun on me, it's going to play toe tag at the morgue. My life is of infinitely greater value to me than that of any criminal who dares to try to victimize me.

 

[Bob F.]

Hard to call, I probably wouldn't shoot from my Monday Morning Quarterback position. Hard to say when Jr actually got in my face. Gotten so old and cantankerous in my old age that I carry my keys (long one out) in my left hand in the mall. Tired of the punks challenging my space.

Ya' gotta be there to read it as it unfolds.

Col Jeff says "The solution to armed robbery is a dead robber-on the scene". Don't think anybody but terminally stupid would rob our VFD Bingo; cops used to call us for backup! Nice to live in rural WV.

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[LynnMassGuy]

I think the presence of 149 bystanders would lead me to keep it on my belt. Too much chance of things going really REALLY bad.

I agree. There is a huge chance it would be a BIG mess.

 

[QuickDraw]

The pointing of a firearm at me in a threatening manner is just that....a threat.I wouldn't care if the BGs "were only trying to scare them",until the BGs left or were dead I would feel threatened!If they want to play Bad Guy beware,some people are armed.

QuickDraw

 

[Zach S]

I think the presence of 149 bystanders would lead me to keep it on my belt. Too much chance of things going really REALLY bad.

Especially if they had a sleeper in the crowd.

 

[Ala Dan]

Again, ONLY if my life or the lives of loved ones was in imminent danger!

You can obtain more cash, get another car, and your
wife can purchase another fashionable handbag; and
you can replace all those stolen credit card's. Listen
closely, if in the eyes of the perp he/she starts to
raise a weapon toward anyone I previously
mentioned; I wouldn't hesitate, and I'd try to drop
him/them in a heartbeat!

And GOD only knows, I'm deadly accurate with my
beloved .45 caliber SIG-SAUER P220A!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Zundfolge]

Having been robbed at gunpoint once before, I have developed the attitude that if you stick a gun in my face you WILL be shot.

Its not about the money, its the principal of the thing.

 

[lionken07]

if they go in with guns they had to be pointing it at people. If I have a good line of fire away from other innocent people I will fire to at least stop (most likely kill in this situation). And yes always assume they are going to fire if they come in with guns. I don't like taking chances or putting my life on other people's hand.

 

[ken grant]

Jeff Cooper had it right------armed robber dead if at all possible

 

[clubsoda22]

It would definately be the last thing i'd do. For one there's three of them, and the second i'd touch off the first shot, 150 scared people are gonna jump up and start running arround like chickens with their heads cut off. Someone who doesn't deserve it is definately gonna catch a bullet in that scenario. I'd only consider it if they got violent.

 

[aroshi]

Being a VFW Bingo session, you could just yell "INCOMING" really loud and while everyone else is hitting the deck (PTSD at work), you'd have a much clearer shot at the young assailants who don't know what's going on at the moment.

Only mostly joking, though.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

griz, I have to admit that I find your opening comments funny in a strange sort of way. Had you been there in the bingo hall and folks came in with guns drawn and you were carrying legally, you would apparently shoot because it si YOUR money. I hope I summarized the sentiment properly that you expressed.

What is funny and what you have missed along with a huge section of the American public on similar instances is that at the moment the gunmen entered and made demands at the end of a gun, money is really no longer a salient issue except for the fact that the money is the reason for the robbers to be there. Think of the money as being the catalyst. The salient issue is that the victims are being threatened with lethal force and as such it becomes a life or death situation as the threat is that if you don't give up the money, then the bad guys shoot you. So at that point, the money is really of little consequence to whether or not you should or need to react. At that point, it IS a life or death situation and whether or not you react with force will have to depend on your personal perspective on the survivability of yourself or loved ones in said situation.

All too often anti-gun folks feel that capitulation is some sort of legally binding agreement. Just because you give the bad guys what they want does NOT mean they won't attempt to harm or kill you anyway and according to the FBI, in about 13% of the cases, compliant victims or bystanders are harmed AFTER getting what they wanted from compliant victims.

Once your life is threatening, whether it is because the bad guy(s) are there for money, cars, women, or are just mean spirited folks really isn't of consideration compared to the fact that your life is is mortal danger. Its not just a robbery, but a life threatening situation. So which are YOU going to address, the robbery or the threat to your life? Screw the money and address the the relevant aspects of protecting your life.