Yet another caliber war...

[McCall911]

I get 1306 fps/662 ft lbs from a 180 grain .357 load in a 2.25" SP101.

Gee whiz! Do you still have any fillings left in your teeth, MC?

 

[MCgunner]

Well, with the stock grips on it, the trigger guard slamming my middle finger was a bit irritating. I got a Hogue on it and it ain't bad. The 140 grain load is a lot easier on the shooter, though. Really ain't much use for the 180 load in that gun, worked it up for my Blackhawk for hunting, just wanted to see what it'd do over the chrony. It was interesting to test various handloads of various weights over the chrony in different barrel lengths when I got the little gun. I think what's happening is that the 125s are getting out of the barrel before the pressure peaks with the slow (H2400) powder. The muzzle flash/blast with that load is impressive and much greater than with the heavier bullets and recoil seems .38ish by comparison. A faster powder like blue dot would probably work better in that gun with the 125 grain bullets, but I'd rather just shoot the 140 grain load anyway cause that bullet is so accurate. On hogs, it leaves an impressive exit wound. Shot some hogs I trapped with it already. It's obvious that expansion with that Speer bullet is not a problem.

 

[Big Boomer]

Care to post that load here MC? I'd like to try that in my 3" over a chrony? For the 180 that is.

 

[weisse52]

With few exceptions, I will always pick the .45 ACP. Owned and shoot both. I like big holes and the platform used to deliver.

 

[MCgunner]

Care to post that load here MC? I'd like to try that in my 3" over a chrony? For the 180 that is.

13.8 grains AA#9 and the 180 Hornady XTP seated to the crimp groove with a healthy roll crimp. I hesitate to shoot this load in a medium frame gun, but the SP101 is a stronger gun and, well, the Blackhawk is a Blackhawk. I can detect no signs of undue pressure in the load, though.

 

[denfoote]

Bigger holes make hollow souls.

 

[Big Boomer]

13.8 grains AA#9 and the 180 Hornady XTP seated to the crimp groove with a healthy roll crimp

Seems you are at .8 grains above max, that's pretty stout. How is ejection on those? I guess that would be a 357 Mag +P hehe maybe even a +p+

 

[Defensory]

.45 ACP, hands down.

Less recoil and less barrel rise means better control and faster follow-up shots.

Less muzzle flash and less muzzle blast means you (and family members if applicable) won't be temporarily blinded and deafened when fired inside the home.

I've owned and shot both since the 1970's, but I frown on the .357 for home defensive use. It's a good backup weapon in the wilderness though.

 

[ugaarguy]

Consider this is to be used for the 2 legged vermin

Then don't get hung up on the equipment. Either gun is a tool that will get the job done equally well. Choose the tool you can use best.

I didn't vote either. I really couldn't. Tonight I have the generic 5" .45 ACP 1911 sitting on the desk beside the computer. On other nights it's a generic 3" or 4" .38 or .357 hand ejector wheel gun. I could list the pros and cons of each, but I couldn't say either caliber is superior to the other for defense from two legged predators. Both calibers have been around for almost 100 years now, and both have long track records of working very well at stopping attackers.

Just go shoot the things and use whichever is handy.

 

[Defensory]

ugaarguy:

I sure wouldn't want to be shot with either.

I always have a good chuckle when somebody makes the dubious statement that "all handgun calibers are underpowered", "weak", "anemic" etc.

Nobody who's every taken a solid hit from either one would make such a statement. They'd either be dead or in an operating room fighting for their life.

 

[philbo]

Given the setup, I chose the 357 simply because I prefer the platform stipulated for it better than I do the 1911. Other than that, I'd feel comfortable with either if circumstances dictated it.

 

[MCgunner]

Seems you are at .8 grains above max, that's pretty stout. How is ejection on those? I guess that would be a 357 Mag +P hehe maybe even a +p+

I notice no problems with ejection. I got the load out of a "Guns and Ammo" article when the AA powders were new. Actually, they worked up to 14.5 grains with it. I found 13.8 gave me what they were giving for velocities and didn't go any hotter. They were shooting in colder conditions was my rational. It is a very hot load and, like I say, I reserve it for the Blackhawk, but the SP101 seemed to handle it without a lot of hassle, extraction normal, but the gun does kick a might.

For guns of lesser strength, I like the old standby 14.5 grains 2400 behind a 158 SWC I cast, which is a gas checked bullet. I've killed 2 deer with the Blackhawk and one with the carbine using this load and it works fine. It produces 760 ft lbs in the Blackhawk which isn't a lot less than the 180 grain load, but is milder in pressure, a little slower burn powder which a longer barrel can take advantage of. It works for 600 ft lbs out of my 4" Taurus M66 and is mild enough for that gun and the load I load up with for outdoor uses, hiking and such with that gun. For any medium frame side plate design framed gun like the Taurus or a K frame Smith, I wouldn't shoot that 180 load. I think it'd show signs of wear if you fed it much of that stuff. Actually, my K frames get mostly .38 special at the range. That Blackhawk gets a steady diet of hot magnums, either 158 or 180, though, and is YET to show any negative wear signs. The thing is build on a very strong frame that is overly strong even for .44 magnum stuff.

BTW, 180 load almost exactly mimics the Buffalo Bore 180 published stats on their site. They claim their loads are safe even in Smith J frames. That may be true, but if you fed a J frame that load very often, I bet you'd start seeing end shake in short order. In an L frame, it makes a lot more sense. Gotta use your head with this stuff if you don't wanna tear up some expensive guns rather quickly.

 

[bikerdoc]

I usually dont respond to vs polls, but this one is well thought out and pertinent to me. No one was a bigger 45, and 357 guy than me until age, arthritis and and a couple of neck and hip operations forced me to make my daily carry a 9mm.
my vote was for the 3 inch simple because that was the easiest to conceal but the 45 was in the truck.

 

[10-Ring]

In a gun fight, more is more, bigger is better -- I prefer the 45

 

[crebralfix]

The differences are negligible. Both bullets are fired from a handgun. Simplifying greatly: handguns are WIMPY. Do not rely upon a single shot to stop a bad guy. Shoot and don't stop until the goblin is down or flees.

Arguing about caliber differences is like arguing over a four cent difference in price: there is a difference, but it's so small it doesn't really matter.

BTW, use both. Carry the 1911 and keep the Ruger as a BUG.

 

[Big Boomer]

BTW, use both. Carry the 1911 and keep the Ruger as a BUG.

I usually do

Did I mention I'm mentally unstable J/K!

Walmart greeter: "those carts are just for the disabled or elderly", me: "I maybe young but I can barely stand up!"

 

[woad_yurt]

I prefer 7.62X25 to either of the above choices.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I wouldn't feel undergunned with either. I generally have a prefernce for autos WRT CCW simply because they lay flatter and have greater capacity. While both pale in comparison to rifles and shotguns, the .357 mag, .45 ACP +P and 10mm auto are at the top end of defensive handgun cartridges that still allow you decent recovery time for reasonably accurate rapid fire.

I have two CCW guns for cooler (jacket) weather. One is a Witness Compact 10mm stoked with 180 grain golden Sabres that clock 1340 FPS for 720 Ft.lbs from the 3.5" tube (1406/790 from 5" barrel). The other is a S&W 4516 that eeks 1030 FPS/565 ft.lbs. from it's short barrel with my 240 gr. JHC handloads. All of my 357's are 4" K or L frame guns, and are a bit large for carry, but my 3 top loads for .357 mag are right between the 10mm and .45 +P: 110 gr/1690 FPS/698 ft.lbs., 125 gr/1500 FPS/624 ft.lbs, and 158 gr/1380 FPS/668 ft.lbs.

Sure, my .44 mag, .454 Casull and .50 AE make a good bit more power, but try putting 4 or 5 rounds on target in a couple seconds with those big boomers. And any of those make a .357 snubby's muzzle flash look like a 40 watt light bulb compared to a xenon headlamp.

 

[hhb]

Under rated

.32acp all the way! Too under rated. Keep in mind the .32acp started World War I, and the .32acp ended World War II in Europe!

 

[Mac45]

While I very much like the .357, and own more than one, I voted for the 1911. I shoot it better, and for me at least it conceals better. YMMV

 

[husbandofaromanian]

Uh, can I vote for .223 SS109. That's what my pistol shoots.

 

[koja48]

don't need to worry about a .357 stovepipe

.45 . . . and none of mine do . . . practice & religiously exercising a handgun pays dividends, plus I don't wear sunglasses in the dark & a .357 round out of a revolver at detonation is, shall we say, "quite illuminating?" . . . I'd like to retain some sense of visual acuity if a follow-up shot were necessary. A proven 1911, IMHO is more robust and more enduring of abuse, mud, dirt, and impact damage than is a wheelgun. Bottom Line: Use that with which you are most proficient & in which you are most confident . . . mistrust & doubt can tip the scales the other way in times of duress.

 

[CHAINGUNMASSACRE]

Both would do the job. But my vote goes to the .357 It's just flat-out more gun. The 45 is a proven manstopper, but it's S L O W. That makes it less effective against cover, barriers, and heavy clothing. I hate how on a hot, humid day with standard loads you can SEE a .45 acp in flight at the range. I know it is capable, but psycologically I feel hadicapped with something that sedate. I like my hadguns to ROAR and belch fire and all that stuff. Makes me feel like I stand a chance.

 

[slow944]

Best SD gun on the market IMHO. I keep a Ruger GP100 on the nightstand. But I keep a Kimber Pro Carry Ten II in my sock drawer for backup.

 

[novaDAK]

Now the 45 Super is interesting...My 1911's are actually set up for those. But they are not the standard ammunition that gets carried. (I simply don't have enough of it)

It sure is "interesting"...It can be shot out of a Ruger P90 as is, but most people do add a heavier recoil spring to save the frame from extra wear. I've never shot it out of mine so I can't say.

But who can argue with a 185gr .45 bullet going 1300fps? That's on par with 10mm which most would agree is as good or better than .357mag