Homeland Defense Rifle on a tax return budget

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goon

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With any luck I'll be getting enough of a tax return this year to afford $1000 - $1200 on a Homeland Defense Rifle. I
'd like to spend it on something that's semi-auto and cheaper to shoot than .308. I'm thinking on a mid-length AR with a flat-top upper and a standard A2 sight base, then accessorizing as I can afford it (should I feel the need to), but am open to other options as well.

FWIW - I'm quite familiar with AR's, AK's, FAL's, and SKS's. I have a working knowledge of other semi-autos that might fit this criteria as well, I'm well equipped with rimfires, and I've owned well over a dozen rifles, maybe two dozen. Just so you all know you're not dealing with the guy who's totally new at this (although I think I'd like to attend a few appleseed shoots eventually).

Right now I'm thinking I might try a Bravo Company mid-length, but I'd be open to others as well if they meet the mil-spec criteria - have chrome lined bores, MPI testing, etc.
Any insight would be appreciated.
 
Sounds to me like you've got a well thought out plan for this rifle.

I'm going to mention a flashlight just because it hasn't been mentioned yet, but to be honest.... yeah, this is an AR-15 we're talking about, so that part's child's play.

There's so many good choices in ARs on the market now that it'll take forever to go through them all, and it'd also just be down to what different THR members prefer at this point. You brought up Bravo Company yourself, and there's no real reason I can think of to go any other way than that.
 
Yeah, if you don't want a .308, I'd say a good AR in 5.56 is the next best choice for that role. I prefer the 20" barreled versions myself... that is what the AR platform was designed for originally, and there is a good reason for it. The 5.56 loses a lot of ballistic effectiveness and max effective range with the carbine length barrel. If it's purely a CQB rifle like a lot of guys use them for, I guess a carbine is fine. But if you want more of an all around rifle that can take care of business at the longer ranges too, I'd go with no shorter than an 18 incher.

Either way, you can't do much better than a BCM. Buy one of their complete uppers and put together your own lower, and you will have a top-notch rifle for a really decent price.

And whatever rifle you get, definitely take it to that Appleseed! That is the best money you will ever spend gun-wise, guaranteed!
 
Right now I'm thinking I might try a Bravo Company mid-length, but I'd be open to others as well if they meet the mil-spec criteria - have chrome lined bores, MPI testing, etc.
Click to expand...
Can't argue with that, it's what I went with and am very happy with it. Put it on a decent lower and you should have enough left over for a nice optic.
There are others that are pretty mil-spec like colt, LMT, Noveske, DD, etc. but as far as I'm concerned the BCM is the best bang for the buck (although I wouldn't be unhappy with a daniel defense, just haven't used one myself).
 
So if I could, what exaclty do you mean by Homeland defence? Because that can mean a lot of different things, which can mean a lot of different options. Are you just worried about how to defend your house of someone breaks in? Or how do defend yourself in the case of total failure and SHTF? I've spent a lot of time on different options and have come to several different personal solutions.
 
Happy BCM middy owner here. My middy is 100% after about 1200 rounds. I have a 1.5-5x32 scope on my middy and it makes 25-300 yard shots much easier.
 
That means, he knows not to use the "liberal" term, 'assault rifle'.

:D
Click to expand...

I catch your drift, but the term 'assault rifle' is not a "liberal" term.

It was coined by Adolf Hitler, a fascist who was anti-liberal. It couldn't be anything further from a "liberal" term.

I like Sport Utility Rifle, myself.
 
I like this one:

IMG_4668.jpg

It isn't for everyone (particularly lefties...and leftists :p), but I couldn't imagine a better general defense rifle.

:)
 
I'd look into the DPMS Sportical as well, no offense to everyone else, but I'll never own another Bushmaster due to some QC and feeding issues. Stag is the $I-Iit that killed Elvis as far as lowers go to me right up there with RRA. From what I've been readin DSA is maken a pretty good AR rifle now, in M4, Middy, and A2/A4 configurations.
 
Nice one Maverick... almost looks like the KelTec, very nice and very "other choices" :)

of course I am an AR slave and to me an ar carbine is an outstanding "jump-off"

keep in mind you want dedicated HD mags (extra cost) and you may gravitate to handloads (for tons of training)... I better stop right now! :D

PS- dam sweet rifle, Mav.
 
Howabout an oddbal.

The Waffen Werks AK-54r. It is an AK 47 action that fires the 7.62x54R round. Reportedly the recoil is only slightly higher than an x39 and it is perfect for your price range. The round is cheap but powerful. The only con is that you are limited currently to 10 round PSL magazines.
It comes with a scope rail that you can buy mounts/mount-scope combos for.
 
Do have $1,000 to spend on a rifle or $1,000 to spend? Let me explain. Having a functioning "Homeland Defense" weapon means more than just owning a rifle. It means having on hand a minimum of:

- a complete weapon (in this case a rifle)
- weapon cleaning kit
- a decent quantity of ammunition
- several magazines or or clips (depending on weapon)
- a means of easily carrying all of the above

This is the list of things that I use to calculate the cost of a new weapon, at least one for combative application. You may also wish to add a flashlight, optic and batteries for both (as needed). A set of the most commonly replaced parts for that weapon isn't a bad idea either.

If it were me doing the buying, (and it's not, so take this all this with a grain of salt) I would figure out how much I could expect to pay for some of the other stuff and then see how much I really have to spend on the rifle itself.
 
One that is seldom discussed is the Rock River UTE series. This rifle gives you all the advantages of factory fixed sights plus the ability to low mount optics to co-witness or with a 1/2" riser get the optics above the sights. You can add options before ordering if there are some you want right now so you can order it with the furniture of choice and not setlle for what it comes with. It is a mid length system.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=221
 
if your gonna get an a3 upper,sarco sells the a2 sight handle the cheapest.might wanna also consider a fold down front sight in case you get a scope with a bullet drop compensater on it,no sight post to get in the way.armalite make some nice ones
 
DBryant brings up a good point. If you want an AR, or similar, that's cool. Nothing wrong with that. I won't debate the politically correct terms, or the fact that the majority of weapons used for home/self defense are not AR/AK style weapons. They are pistols, shotguns, and even a person's trusty hunting rifle. But the point DBryant made about the weapon being just the tip of the iceberg is dead on.

If you're new to the caliber, then be prepared to spend a lot of money on ammunition. The cheapest ammo available is about $200-$250 for 1000 rounds of steel case ammo. $350-$400 for some decent brass ammo. Sounds like a lot of rounds, but you can go through this amount in just a couple times to the range shooting. And for a gun that is brand new and supposedly used for home defense, you owe it to yourself to become familiar with the gun and to know what kind of ammo it likes. 1000 rounds is pretty much the standard amount of rounds before I would trust it and know it enough to use as a defensive weapon. (I put 400-500 rounds through pistols for the same purpose when I first buy one of those).

Then there's possibly the added cost of optics/sights; magazines; sling; etc... Buying the rifle is just the beginning. If all you have is $1000-$1200 for EVERY FACET of this weapon you want; then you're going to need to be a bit more selective. Unless you are experienced with what is good or not, average magazines are going to cost about $14-$18 each. You'll probably need at least 4-5 of those.

You need to determine exactly what you can and WANT to afford. Then readdress your options.

On a SIDE NOTE: I hope you're not actually getting a $1000-$1200 "Tax Refund". If you are; then you really need to get someone to help you with your finances and basic economics. Anyone getting more than $200-$300 in a refund; on a regular basis; is ripping themselves off. You're cheating yourself. I, on average, write a check to the IRS for between $3500-$5000 each year. That's on top of all the taxes they've already taken out. That's only a $35-$50 penalty; but I wouldn't have it any other way. I made a lot more than that penalty by using and having my money available to me throughout the year. Like buying silver and gold, which the government has absolutely no idea you bought; "Unless you buy/sell more than $10,000 at a time". Not saying you need to OWE $3500-$5000 a year. But you definitely shouldn't be getting back $1000+ a year either. Anyway; good luck on your gun purchase.
 
"Liberal" is in quotes for a good reason, and I think most here would agree it is all very illiberal, no need bringing up Hitler.
 
The issue is specifications, not Brand. Choosing a 16" midlength flattop for "Homeland Defense" shows some thought about the process.

The brandbois will argue you need the wrong weapon all day because they can't think past the rollmark. They get by on their choice, but it's often not optimal for what somebody else might need. Perspective of the need gets confused to - there are shooters out there who cannot conceive anyone needs more than a 50 yard gun. And they say they don't like the AK, either. Sounds more like a perfect match.

You can stick to milspec standards as a baseline for parts selection, but don't let them hinder choosing something better. Nobody really shoots a 100% milspec gun outside the DOD/LE unless they paid for a transfer stamp.

For example, if you also wanted to hunt with the same rifle (which is applied tactics in the field,) your state may very well restrict your choice to something other than 5.56. And Colt would immediately be off the list. Further, most barrels offered would not be milspec - you need the correct rifling for the caliber, not an arbitrary standard chosen for something else.

That may sound like common sense, and it is, but brandfans refuse to consider things beyond rollmarks because they simply don't know enough about the AR to make a decision.

Determine the specific job, then choose barrel and caliber, upper, optic, furniture, and trigger needed, in that order. The brands sort themselves out quickly because few offer the best choices all the time. Every maker is a bit selective, as said, move to a legal hunting caliber, and a lot of makers don't make the cut.

When you define the job to be done, don't forget the frequency - which determines ammo consumption - which determines supply - at which point you see whether you pick up a box as needed, buy in bulk online, or reload. When you state what you are going to do, take it another step - what does it need to make that happen.

Lots of guys spec a need for a 500m rifle and the nearest range is a day's drive away. Don't paint yourself into a corner.
 
I set myself up for a tax refund (been two to four times that amount for the past three years or so, depending)... sometimes it doesn't work out in my favor, and sometimes it does. It was my best performing investment in 2008, I'll tell you that. :rolleyes: Plus it provides an automatic "buffer" in the event that the market does well, like last year....

Anyhow. I think the BCM middy is a fine choice; maybe the best "general purpose" design out there. Mine in its current config is a keeper.
 
Some people have said it, but I'll say it again. I flashlight is a must for an HD weapon. Last thing you would want to do is start turning on the lights when the bad guy comes in. You know your way around your own house. He doesn't.
 
bbuddtec said:
PS- dam sweet rifle, Mav.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words; it's a modified Bushmaster M17S.

FWIW, I don't use it for home defense (that's what a scattergun is for), but should the need ever arise for a homeland defense rifle...that'd be the one i'd pick up.

:)
 
DBryant said:
Do have $1,000 to spend on a rifle or $1,000 to spend? Let me explain. Having a functioning "Homeland Defense" weapon means more than just owning a rifle. It means having on hand a minimum of:

- a complete weapon (in this case a rifle)
- weapon cleaning kit
- a decent quantity of ammunition
- several magazines or or clips (depending on weapon)
- a means of easily carrying all of the above

This is the list of things that I use to calculate the cost of a new weapon, at least one for combative application. You may also wish to add a flashlight, optic and batteries for both (as needed). A set of the most commonly replaced parts for that weapon isn't a bad idea either.

If it were me doing the buying, (and it's not, so take this all this with a grain of salt) I would figure out how much I could expect to pay for some of the other stuff and then see how much I really have to spend on the rifle itself.
Click to expand...

Point taken, and you're correct.
At this point, I already have a good rifle that I can count on and all the necessary accessories to make it work. I'm not looking to replace it, just to add something new to my collection with another military style rifle since I will be able to afford it (hopefully) and since I don't think a guy can ever have too many.
What roles will this rifle fill?
Overwhelmingly just recreational shooting, home defense (any gun I own had better be dead reliable), and to have around "just in case."

My budget is rifle only and perhaps two extra magazines and enough ammo to fill them - and it can flex to make that happen. Ammunition in bulk, more magazines, etc will be added peice by peice as I can afford them. Cleaning accessories are not a problem... I've been shooting for over 25 years. Like I said, this ain't my first rodeo. ;)

FWIW to the other guy who asked, what I mean by "Homeland Defense Rifle" is a semi-auto version of a military rifle (maybe an assault rifle, maybe a battle rifle, depending on caliber).
 
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