Officer attempts to intimidate Open Carry owner and fails

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Seems like a dumbass to me. Why not just produce your ID? If the guy looks young (which we cannot tell by this video), the age question is a legitimate question for open carry of a revolver.
 
Why not just produce your ID? If the guy looks young (which we cannot tell by this video), the age question is a legitimate question for open carry of a revolver.

I disagree. If the LE has reason to believe the guy is under age it's one thing, but just going off of looks doesn't seem to meet the requirements for probable cause to me.

That would be called "profiling" :)


Carrier being an a-hole? Eh, who knows, but he is 100% correct and the cop knows it.
 
I also wonder why not provide an ID if you have one. Maybe the photographer felt that if he had let the officer get started, this LEO would not know where to quit since he didn't really seem sure about the open carry part of the law until he called someone.
 
I read all the comments and as yet I read not one negative remark. As the cameraman stated in one reply to a remark, he is not required to show an ID without probable cause.
 
When I was 16 I hung out with a kid who was stealing from Wal-Mart we left at the same time and we were both detained in store. When the local PD showed up they asked who I was, I refused to provide ID because I had nothing to do with the incident. The LEO then stated he could hold me for 24 hours for not providing ID, I don't know if that was true or not and I didn't care as it seemd I was being charged with a crime I did not commit. Well in case you were wondering in court the other kid took full responsibilty and my charges were dropped, it stiil is a PITA everytime my security clearance is up for review. So it may or may not be required by law to provide ID upon a LEO's request. Kinda reminds me of those old WWII movies when the Nazi's ask to see the European's "papers" to make sure all is in order.
 
I agree with Tim. The guy who shot the video was not just exercising his rights but looking for a confrontation. Even after the cop turned around and was walking away he kept asking "am I being detained" and "am I under arrest". If you want to get in a shouting match with teh police you can easily wind up giving them a reason to lock you up.

Passive resistance while open carrying can work. If you're open carrying to make a point I think you should be cooperative, not confrontational. If this is done enough the police will wind up leaving you alone. That is unless you live in one of these places some people talk about where the police are all corrupt. Then you need to contact the state ag or FBI and have all those crooked cops locked up.
 
So it may or may not be required by law to provide ID upon a LEO's request.

The Supreme Court ruled in Hibel v 6th Judicial District Court that a Nevada state law requiring people to show ID to LE upon request was Constitutional.

So, it depends on the underlying state law. But even in the case of the Nevada law it requires the LE to believe a crime is being or has been committed.

It would be interesting to see how it would play out in this case, where the LE might "think" a crime was being committed but there wasn't actually any law against what was going on.

According to Wiki at least 23 other states have a similar law.
 
In the US Supreme Court 2004 ruling in the case of Hiibel vs. the Sixth Judicial Distict Court, the judges stated that a person must provide his or her name if asked regardless of probable cause. The decision was 5-4. This federal ruling upheld state statutes in 21 states and set precedent for the other 29.

Not that I agree with any of this, mind you...just reporting the facts.
 
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I certainly see the point made by the remark "papers please". Frightening for sure. But in the Walmart case, where they are trying to sort out the possible players in a crime ... it seems counter productive to deliberately make the LEO's work more difficult.

The "papers please" argument seems to be somewhat more applicable in the case of the photographer at the rally where there was no crime in evidence. but from that point on, a lot depends on the apparent age of the fellow doing the open carry. Or so it seems to me.
 
In the US Supreme Court 2004 ruling in the case of Hiibel vs. the Sixth Judicial Distict Court, the judges stated that a person must provide his or her name or ID if asked regardless of probable cause.

My understanding of Hiibel is that you are not required to produce an ID but that you are required to give your name. There's a diference there
 
9mm+,

Please notice the below from
Hiibel vs. the Sixth Judicial District Court

http://epic.org/privacy/hiibel/resp_brief.pdf

Applying traditional standards of reasonableness to
the facts in this case, it is clear that the government’s
interest outweighs Hiibel’s right to personal security.
Requiring a lawfully detained person to identify himself is
a minimal intrusion. This act does not require an officer to
physically touch the suspect, move him to a different
location or extract bodily fluids. NRS 171.123(3) merely
requires a person, lawfully detained on reasonable suspicion,
to identify himself. This requirement can be met
either by stating a name or producing an identification
card.
How the person chooses to identify himself is left to
his or her discretion.
Placing this discretion with the
detained person reduces the intrusive nature of the request
and removes any discretion by the officer to determine
if the identification satisfies the statute. Of course, if
the person provides a false name the officer may continue
to detain the person until the conflict is resolved.

Police have very little authority to require an individual to produce an identification document. In Washington state, for instance, other than when a person is actually engaged in a behavior which requires a license, such as driving or concealed carrying, the individual is only required to produce an identification document for the purpose of the actual issuance of a citation, NOT as part of the investigation leading up to the issuance of a citation.

RCW 7.80.060
Person receiving notice — Identification and detention.

A person who is to receive a notice of civil infraction under RCW 7.80.050 is required to identify himself or herself to the enforcement officer by giving his or her name, address, and date of birth. Upon the request of the officer, the person shall produce reasonable identification, including a driver's license or identicard.

A person who is unable or unwilling to reasonably identify himself or herself to an enforcement officer may be detained for a period of time not longer than is reasonably necessary to identify the person for purposes of issuing a civil infraction.

Each agency authorized to issue civil infractions shall adopt rules on identification and detention of persons committing civil infractions.
 
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There is some irony in following a police officer around and saying "Am I being detained"
 
My understanding of Hiibel is that you are not required to produce an ID but that you are required to give your name. There's a diference there

Yes, true. I will amend my post to reflect that. Thanks.
 
It just looked and especially sounded to me that the cameraman was trying to create/escalate a situation when it was not warranted. He should have expected to be questioned and should have been better prepared with his response/action. Seems very stupid to me.
 
Which specific law requires me to release my ID?

That is all that had to be asked, and it didn't have to be asked rudely. I think the tone of the video is over the top. I suspect that both sides knew they were a bit out of line socially.

Geno
 
Rudeness, tone, rubbish

I don't understand some reactions to this video in which the man open carrying is criticized for his "rudeness" or for "escalating" the situation. The police work for citizens and being the professionals, must work with all types of people. If this man's simple questioning is too much for the thin-skinned officer, Lord help him when he arrives on the scene of emotion-wracked crime or accident victims. More than the particular tone of the citizen's voice, I would be more concerned that at least twice the officer reaches for his own weapon! That is not rudeness, it is downright threatening.
 
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