Thought experiment: The clash of the marginal deer rounds

Jason_W · Jul 22, 2017

There have been and always will be endless discussions on the best ever deer round, but what if deer season rolled around and you were forced to make do with only a few limited and less than ideal choices?

The scenario is this: Deer season is approaching, and for whatever reason, your budget will not allow the purchase of a new rifle. In your safe are a scoped .357 mag levergun, a scoped, bolt action .223 and a pump action 20 ga. shotgun with a standard bird barrel as well as a rifled slug barrel (open sights only).

Additional details:

The deer in your area are small, averaging 80 to 120 lbs dressed weight.

The terrain is such that most shots will be 100 yards or less, with most occurring inside 50 yards, and a very limited few out to 200 yards.

You're set up to handload for the metallic rounds and have scraped together $50 for reloading supplies or ammo.

With 3 less than ideal deer rounds to choose from, what would you pick? Yeah, you could just stay home, but what fun would that be?

MEHavey · Jul 22, 2017

NoBrainer: (for which I am thankful)
223 Rem handloaded with any one of the various 60-65gr hunting bullets.
Kills dead through the entire range -- close-to-far

Choctaw · Jul 22, 2017

The deer you described are remarkably like the ones we hunt in my part of Texas. To stay within the confines of your scenario I would go with the .223. This cartridge has worked very well for me on smaller deer and my arch nemesis, the feral hog.

Armored farmer · Jul 22, 2017

I would choose the .223.
I have always wondered what it would be like to shoot a deer with a fast, flat shooting, centerfire rifle. After 40 yrs with smoothbore slug guns, rifled slug guns, muzzleloaders, handguns, and bows.....
I think a .223 would be a mulligan.

Jason_W · Jul 22, 2017

Interesting. I might be inclined to lean toward the .357 or shotgun if a bulk of the shots are under 50 yards. A .357 can be loaded to surpass the .223 in terms of energy over the short haul, and it's a bigger, heavier bullet. It does bleed velocity off fast.

Shotguns slugs are kinda made to bring on the hurt at close range. Though, sabot slugs are like a trillion dollars a piece which limits practice.

horsey300 · Jul 22, 2017

Jason_W said:
There have been and always will be endless discussions on the best ever deer round, but what if deer season rolled around and you were forced to make do with only a few limited and less than ideal choices?

The scenario is this: Deer season is approaching, and for whatever reason, your budget will not allow the purchase of a new rifle. In your safe are a scoped .357 mag levergun, a scoped, bolt action .223 and a pump action 20 ga. shotgun with a standard bird barrel as well as a rifled slug barrel (open sights only).

Additional details:

The deer in your area are small, averaging 80 to 120 lbs dressed weight.

The terrain is such that most shots will be 100 yards or less, with most occurring inside 50 yards, and a very limited few out to 200 yards.

You're set up to handload for the metallic rounds and have scraped together $50 for reloading supplies or ammo.

With 3 less than ideal deer rounds to choose from, what would you pick? Yeah, you could just stay home, but what fun would that be?

$50 won't load my .223 unless I already have dies in this scenario, $27(ish) for powder and $23(ish) for Sierra gameking 65 gr pills/53 gr tsx. Hopefully I have brass too? If I was able to load all that under the budget, then the .223 would be OK IF I could make an accurate load with just the one powder and had a fast enough twist....if not, I'd grab a couple boxes of hydrashock or vortx and practice getting to know that .357 out to as far as I was comfortable with and limit my shots, just cuz I'm hunting doesn't mean I HAVE to shoot.

Hanshi · Jul 22, 2017

Since I've easily killed deer with a .357 revolver, I know the round in a rifle will be that much better than "marginal".

Captcurt · Jul 22, 2017

I have taken several deer with a 180 XTP in a GP100, but in this case I would go with the 223. A good handload or a Federal Fusion in the right place will suffice. Just pick your shot.

FL-NC · Jul 22, 2017

Absolutely the 223. The last 3 deer I killed were with the marginal 223. 2 were killed with my marginal MVP thunder ranch, 1 with my marginal 1 MOA home built AR carbine. 2 were DRT, 1 ran 50 yards and fell over- pretty awesome results with my marginal guns using marginal 75 grain Hornady. With the classic broad side shots using my superior calibers (243, 308, 30-30) I get DRT animal about 50% of the time, but those calibers are still better because someone said so.

Blkhrt13 · Jul 22, 2017

The 357 would be my pick. I prefer a 30 cal or bigger for deer.

MCgunner · Jul 22, 2017

I've killed a Texas doe at 80 yards with my Rossi 92 .357 magnum. It pushes a 165 grain SWC out at about 1900 fps. It does a great job, but as others have said, range is limited to under 100 yards. I've killed one deer with a 20 gauge shotgun, a coach gun firing 3 buck. 3 pellets to the head was decisive from 35 yards.

BUT, I'd currently have to go with the scoped rifle. I can't see open sights at the moment due to cataracts. I won't get 'em fixed until November when I go on Medicare. I need optics at the moment.

LoonWulf · Jul 22, 2017

Scoped .223 would be my first choice, with winchester power points or any of the other moderately priced medium game bullets/ammo.
Ive killed more than a few 80/120lb deer with the 52grn american eagle hollow points. This back in highschool when a box of those was 5 bucks here, and was to broke to buy a box of ammo for my 06.

I own a .357 lever and would have no issues using that for deer that size loaded with 125-158grn bullets, EXCEPT it cant take a scope, and i really prefer scopes even at short range.

FL-NC · Jul 22, 2017

Armored farmer said:
I would choose the .223.
I have always wondered what it would be like to shoot a deer with a fast, flat shooting, centerfire rifle. After 40 yrs with smoothbore slug guns, rifled slug guns, muzzleloaders, handguns, and bows.....
I think a .223 would be a mulligan.

They either fall over dead or run a short distance, then fall over dead, in my experience. Pretty much like everything else if you put a good shot in it, which you also have to do with everything else.

Mn Fats · Jul 22, 2017

I really wanted to say .357 lever gun. Scoped .223 wins for me depending on the scope. Tasco? Pass. A quality scope can give a hunter such an awesome advantage in low light hours.
Edit: just re read the .357 lever is also scoped. That's my choice hands down. Of course at 100 yards or less and "most occurring inside 50 yards" it depends on what your most comfortable with. 20 Ga wouldn't be an option for me personally.

Jason_W · Jul 23, 2017

MCgunner said:
I've killed a Texas doe at 80 yards with my Rossi 92 .357 magnum. It pushes a 165 grain SWC out at about 1900 fps. It does a great job, but as others have said, range is limited to under 100 yards. I've killed one deer with a 20 gauge shotgun, a coach gun firing 3 buck. 3 pellets to the head was decisive from 35 yards.

BUT, I'd currently have to go with the scoped rifle. I can't see open sights at the moment due to cataracts. I won't get 'em fixed until November when I go on Medicare. I need optics at the moment.

There is one commercially available brand of #1 buck for the 20 gauge. The reviews I've read on it indicates that it patterns well. I'm betting one could assemble 3" #1 buck loads, buffered with nickel plated shot inside and get a very capable deer load out to 40-45 yards. Yeah, it would be a lot of work, but I like a project.

EIB0879 · Jul 23, 2017

I would need a scope so the .223 would get the nod.

Sunray · Jul 23, 2017

"...less than ideal deer rounds..." Those three aren't exactly less than ideal. Best firearm will be the one you can shoot best. No buckshot for the 20, 12 gauge buck shot isn't reliable past 40 yards never mind out of a 20, but a slug will do nicely for those wee deer(Dressed weight doesn't matter though. Live weight does.) So will any suitable .223 bullet. Lots of 'em these days. So will a .357 lever action.
Think I'd go with the .223 too. Hornady loads a 60 grain SP specifically for deer. Excellent remaining energy out to 300 yards. Drops like a brick past there.

FL-NC · Jul 23, 2017

Full disclosure- all the deer I killed with the 223 as described above were killed with Hornady 75 grain BTHP match. Yes, the round experts claim is only suitable for coyotes or paper. But the fact is that I have seen the results of this round on humans, and it is in a completely different class than mainstream military rounds like 55 grain M193, 62 grain M855, or that new bi-metal round they started issuing. Oh, and both the rifles I fire it from are 16" with a 1/9 twist, which the experts also say won't stabilize a round that heavy. Fortunately, no one told my rifles that because I get consistent MOA performance with both of them with this round- suppressed- as well as the 77 grain black hills OTM (MK 262).Sometimes I think most people just repeat what they have heard instead of reporting what they observed, since they never actually observed it.

MCgunner · Jul 23, 2017

I've yet to try it, but then, I just got an M4 for a birthday present last November. But, I've loaded a 62 grain Barnes TSX over IMR 4198 for 2900+ FPS. I think it'll do. I intend to hunt hogs with it, though. I have more capable (read proven) rifles for deer. But, given the choices of the OP, that's the load I'd use.

Patocazador · Jul 23, 2017

I'm a rifle man BUT in this case it's the 20 ga. with the slug barrel. Slugs are nasty critters that don't fool around. Neither the .223 nor .357 excite me enough to choose them over a proven deer killer.

jmr40 · Jul 23, 2017

Under ideal conditions all kill deer. The 223 works better in conditions where the other 2 would come up short. A 20 ga shotgun will severely limit your range as would a 357. Not just because of energy levels at extended ranges, but the accuracy potential is much better with 223. The 223 will have about 1/2 the recoil of 357, closer to 1/4-1/5 that of a 20 ga with slugs.

Use bullets designed for big game, not targets or varmints, and it will work just fine.

entropy · Jul 23, 2017

.223 hands down. I've seen deer killed with all three rounds, .223 and .357 by my son, 20 ga. by several friends. It all boils down to the shooter; my son has taken deer with .223 at ranges from 10 to 225 yards, none of them went more than 50 ft. I had to track a deer a friend shot with a 20 ga. slug or half a mile- he'd gut shot it. I also saw a 12 year old kid shoot a doe with a 20 ga. and it dropped right there. Heart shot. I hunt with a .223 Savage Axis with 55 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmints.

RPRNY · Jul 24, 2017

You have described the perfect conditions for a 357 lever gun. Get rid of the ugly and unhandy scope - not needed. Load good semi-wadcutter type bullets that will feed well and you will feed well. Leave the 223 ready in the event that a vicious zombie poodle is on the loose in the neighborhood.

A 20 ga rifled barrel will also work well, but will require more than $50 experimentation to get the right slug and zero.

Klint Beastwood · Jul 24, 2017

just get some tannerite, marbles, electric match, some lamp cord, superglue and a 12 volt and make a improvised claymore. that will teach them deer....while on a budget.

Klint Beastwood · Jul 24, 2017

Also side note, now that i thought about what i just wrote, if any reader is stupid enough to try that...and not just leave it as a joke, and then attempts to craft an improvised explosive for real and consequently blows them self up....just know that life is made up of choices...and you chose to challenge natural selection and lost.

Thought experiment: The clash of the marginal deer rounds

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