.308 Norma
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Oh good grief! I hope he bought himself a lightweight .338 Win Mag. Nothing like having even more "snot" kicked out of him to demonstrate a few of the basic laws of physics.
Sometimes we just don't have good reasons
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cdb1
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If you are referring to this statement, “Stated this before but I do not like the recoil of a 25-06. I’ve shot a number of them over the years and the recoil on all had a sting to it for lack of a better term. A sting I don’t feel shooting the same model rifle in .270 or 30-06“, you can laugh all you want to. I didn’t say the 25-06 has more recoil than a .270 or 30-06. It can’t because if it did it would defy physics. I did say 25-06 recoil feels different to me and is more unpleasant to me than the other two. This was in a M70, Model 700 and Mark V. My BIL does like the 25-06 and has three.
cdb1
Member
I talked him into a Vanguard 30-06.
JeeperCreeper
Member
I too have noticed that, in a family of cartridges, the faster rounds will be more "snappy", generally speaking and rifle/load depending. All things equal, .338winmag shoves more than getting slapped by the 300winmag. It's a different kind of impulse.
That's measuring with my scientifical shoulder-force-o-meter.
.308 Norma
Member
Truthfully, I've never shot a 25-06. But I can understand and believe what you're saying.
I have an old, custom (pre-64 Model 70 action) 338 Win Mag with a laminated wood stock. It has plenty of recoil as far as I'm concerned, but it doesn't hurt me nearly as much as that danged Model 70, 300 Win Mag I bought (and resold a few year later) back in the '90s. The 300 Win Mag's recoil was sharper, faster, or whatever you want to call it. As you said, it "stung" more.
Handgun calibers, but I see this a lot:
Stopping power 'doesn't exist' with these cartridges, which makes the .40 S&W 'stupid' and 'dead' for having more recoil, less capacity, and a higher price than 9mm.
But at the same time, the .45 ACP is still respected, despite also having more recoil, less capacity, and a higher price than 9mm.
Stopping power 'doesn't exist' with these cartridges, which makes the .40 S&W 'stupid' and 'dead' for having more recoil, less capacity, and a higher price than 9mm.
But at the same time, the .45 ACP is still respected, despite also having more recoil, less capacity, and a higher price than 9mm.
Newtosavage
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This.
It's surprising how many people really don't understand their own weapons.
Newtosavage
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Okay, I happen to have some real-life "actual" experience with the stopping power of the 9mm vs. the 40. I used to kill feral pigs by the hundreds when I was in my 20's. I had a lot (I mean a LOT) of test medium in those days. And I was issued both a 9mm and a 40 cal in those days so I went out to test the stopping power for myself. I was able to shoot about 8-10 pigs from 80-150 lbs with each caliber. The real world results I saw with my own eyes left no doubt in my mind that the 40 was a superior caliber for stopping stuff. I really liked the 9mm until I had that opportunity. The 9 is much easier to shoot accurately for most folks and I'm no different. But the fact of the matter was the 40 put those pigs down much faster. Not nearly as fast as the .357 or .44, but significantly faster than the 9.
Llama Bob
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Oh, I'm sure it's perfectly fine as are many euro cartridges. But I'd rather have a .280 AI or 7mm Rem. Nice solid American cartridges with a little extra pop in the same size action
ontarget
Member
I hate calibers that someone else tells me I have to love.
FL-NC
Member
If you're talking about Florida deer, a .223 is overkill
Also adequate for deer in the other 49 states, within its capabilities and in capable hands. We mock what we don't understand.
adcoch1
Member
I hate the 270, not because its bad, weak, or even inferior to 30-06, but because I love the 30-06. And all but one 270 I've shot seem to have weird feeling recoil. I know logically that a butt pad would cure it on every test sample, but I can't shake my own personal stigma. I also dislike 357 mag in a handgun because of my love affair with all things 44. 357is an amazingly versatile cartridge, but I just don't care for it in any situation where I get to pick a 44 as an option. Its not logical, but its still the way it is for me...
Llama Bob
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It's interesting, because while I quite prefer US cartridges, of all the US cartridges the .30-06 is one of my least favorites. Not however for irrational reasons. In fact I would say if anything nearly all the love for it is irrational nostalgia stemming from it being a US service cartridge.
Just viewed from an engineering perspective it kinda stinks - bigger bore than really necessary (and hence worse ballistics and less penetration), an inefficient taper and shoulder design, and historically filled with powder so poorly suited to the application that all classic .30-06 loads can easily be duplicated in .308 despite the .308 spotting 12 grains H20 of powder capacity. For the same recoil the 7mm mag just stomps it.
Just viewed from an engineering perspective it kinda stinks - bigger bore than really necessary (and hence worse ballistics and less penetration), an inefficient taper and shoulder design, and historically filled with powder so poorly suited to the application that all classic .30-06 loads can easily be duplicated in .308 despite the .308 spotting 12 grains H20 of powder capacity. For the same recoil the 7mm mag just stomps it.
cdb1
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And after all that it’s still more versatile than a .308.
Llama Bob
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As long as the .308 is 1:10 twist, not really.
cdb1
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Right, a .308 handles 200-220 grain bullets as well as a 30-06. It flat out does not.
*GASP* YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!!!
I agree, but i still love my 06. I also love the 7mm, for the reasons stated.....again as ive said before, i can use anything from 223 to.....whatever, for what i do. So ive given into the urge to have both. Ill probably add a .264wm eventually, just cause i want one.
Llama Bob
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Actually it does just fine. The difference in velocity at max OAL and max SAAMI pressure with the fastest temp-insensitive powder is usually 100ft/s or a bit more depending on the exact bullet. And what most people think of as full power 200 and 220 gr loads in the .30-06 (2500 ft/s or so) can be completely duplicated in .308 within SAAMI spec. The -06 does not make much hay of that extra 12grH20 of capacity.
Part of the reason is the .308's more efficient shoulder (steeper and wider), part is the .308's higher max pressure, and part of it is that there's more good powders in the heavy .308 burn rates than there are for .30-06.
cdb1
Member
It does fine but not as well as a 30-06, if both are loaded to their full capacity.
someguy2800
Member
The 444 marlin is the stupidest cartridge that I dearly love. Great fun to shoot and after taking game with it no amount of convincing will persuade me otherwise. Same goes for the 30-06, you can talk all you like about how inefficient it is or it's too long or a 243 is fine for everything up to buffalo or whatever, I don't care, it's a great cartridge, and yes nostalgia is a big part of that.
Llama Bob
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Remember though that .30-06 has a long history of under-performing, and most of it's reputation as a "great" cartridge is built on slower loadings that can be duplicated exactly.
Just out of curiosity, I looked at all the offerings Midway had of .30-06 with 190gr or heavier bullets. There was exactly one load (a DoubleTap 200gr load) that couldn't be duplicated in .308 within SAAMI spec using a temp-insensitive powder. The rest were just over-elongated .308 loads
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