Why do I need a .17?

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Armored farmer said:
I was curious as to what you .17 guys were using them for.
It sounds like light varmint/pest/target gun.
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I got a 17 Remington bolt rifle in part as a curiosity but I had planned to take it for prairie dogs. When I finally organized a trip to South Dakota, I felt the 17 Remington was too limited for the ranges we might shoot so I took a 204 Ruger and 223 Remington. The AR-15 is part of a pair of identical AR-15's with sequential serial numbers. The other is a 204 Ruger.

The AR-15 has a 24" heavy barrel and is close to 12 pounds empty. It is best for fixed position shooting.

The bolt rifle has a 22" slender barrel and would be good for walk-about varminter. It is accurate but with the slender barrel, the point of aim drifts after a few shots as the barrel heats up. The rifle does better after I free floated the barrel but 3 to 4 shots are about it before the barrel must be allowed to cool.
 
crestoncowboy said:
I've found that wind drift is exaggerated by most people in the heavy (for caliber) v-max. At 200 yards or less I can't recall ever missing anything with my hmr. Granted there is far more drift than any other round ive used, i don't find it to be an issue inside the range it was designed for. Even the 2-5 (ive seen 2 inches at 100 ) inches listed above, which I feel is pretty accurate, is a hit on a groundhog. Where I live wind is broken up by the mountains so it's either calm or whipping enough to knock my 200 lbs around and not suitable for small bullets (or being outside), not much in between.
As far as uses, anything up to coyote (ours run small if internet hunters are to be believed at 17-25lb average, the biggest ive personally weighed was 36 lbs) I've not had problems killing and the noise level in 17 HMR (or 22 mag) is low enough that a quick shot at a pest without plugs doesn't bother me although I'll use plugs or muffs if time allows. The damage for the little v-max is massive. Ive got pictures from coyote and bobcat that people argue aren't shot with a rimfire. The nastiest being a between the eyes shot on a bobcat in a chicken coupe that was an instant and convincing kill. My guns didn't shoot the hollow points good so I never hunted with them. Conversely my 22 magnums back when I used them (from Teen to mid 20s killing a hundred or more groundhog yearly plus predators and crow) didn't shoot the Remington polymer tips worth a crap so I'm comparing different bullets, but from thousands of dead varmints, the 17 hmr is easily my choice.

All that said, if I know I'm hunting coyote or bobcat I take a different caliber. But when I'm carrying the 17 on my atv or jeep hunting groundhogs and see coyote, it is adequate.
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I like light, fast bullets for my varmint/truck/ tractor gun. Highly populated rural areas are common here. There are houses scattered around in every direction. I dont want my bullets getting back off the ground and traveling on.
That's why I like my 32gr .204., but I even consider it light for coyotes. They may be a little bigger than yours but not much.
 
I have two, a Tracker with 2-7 scope and a 93 Savage. Both are quite accurate, the Savage commonly under 1" and the Tracker not far behind. Biggest problems are that for edible game (squirrel) you have to do head shots or ruin the half you hit, they, for me, are underpowered for coyote as I have had three, hit well in the ribs, excape, and finally, they are very wind sensitive. My Tracker, on what I thought was a dead calm day, put in a seven shot (full cylinder) from the bags group in 3/4" tall and 2 1/2" wide group. My standing quote is "A mosquito farting in the next county will move that bullet an inch."
I have no need for either but have never found a 22 mag that would group in twice the area. My 77 22M was close. Never lost a yote with it either.
 
Armored farmer said:
I was curious as to what you .17 guys were using them for.
It sounds like light varmint/pest/target gun.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head. It extends your range to take them a great deal over the 22LR and is more accurate than the 22WMR. According to the ballistic guys the 17 HMR actually has less wind drift than the 22LR and my experience bears that out. Personally I wouldn't shoot a coyote with one at over 100 yards. If you like shooting tiny little groups in paper it's great for that. The 17 gr. v-max bullet is very destructive. I can't say anything about the 20 gr. bullet loads available except I found early on that my Marlin 917VS doesn't shoot them as well as the 17 grainers by quite a bit but I should qualify that by saying they are still better at 100 yards than my 22's are.
 
I have almost zero experience with a 204 but Ive burned out barrels in 220 swift and 223 though, fired many rounds, and would take one of those if I know I'm calling coyotes. One field I set in where 500 yards is about the average shot, I used to set with 7mm rum or 257 wby. I haven't called in that area in years though.
The reason wind doesn't bother me in 17 HMR is that with the lack of energy I'm not shooting at enough distance to be concerned about it. With 220 or the larger calibers with exponentially more power I tend to be shooting farther. Ive killed animals past 300 with it (the hmr) but would never put money on those shots lol) but I consider it a perfect 0-200 yard round. If you know your shooting past that you need more gun.
Before anyone yells about ethics, if you ever ring an axle off a tractor on a steep hill, or break a leg, or lose a cow due to a groundhog hole, you may change your mind. And I can confidently say that with 4 or 5 if us shooting 50-100 a year we havent hurt the groundhog population.
 
Hornet will definitely do it better, and at longer range no doubt than a hmr. Idk about the Remington but I'd think the two were close or maybe even pick the 17. One of the guys I hunt with uses one exclusively. But costs more than 17 or even 223 (reloaded or not, one has to buy brass,) and although we only have one 22 hornet, it's a gold inlaid browning, and that one doesn't impress with its grouping. I never reloaded for it and I'm sure it could be competitive . Its also pretty noisy. Until I die it will likely never be fired again. Nothing wrong with it though.
I can spend 250 bucks for a package and 50 rounds and go out shooting my NEW rifle in 22 mag or 17 hmr. Not so much with the hornet. My 338 lapua or 30-378 still do everything that the 17 will do and do it better and farther and are reloadable as well. Regardless the op asked about a 17. And I don't think ever stated Remington or rimfire. If Remington my entire argument doesn't apply. I assumed rimfire since he mentioned 22lr and magnum
 
crestoncowboy said:
Hornet will definitely do it better, and at longer range no doubt than a hmr. Idk about the Remington but I'd think the two were close or maybe even pick the 17. One of the guys I hunt with uses one exclusively. But costs more than 17 or even 223 (reloaded or not, one has to buy brass,) and although we only have one 22 hornet, it's a gold inlaid browning, and that one doesn't impress with its grouping. I never reloaded for it and I'm sure it could be competitive . Its also pretty noisy. Until I die it will likely never be fired again. Nothing wrong with it though.
I can spend 250 bucks for a package and 50 rounds and go out shooting my NEW rifle in 22 mag or 17 hmr. Not so much with the hornet. My 338 lapua or 30-378 still do everything that the 17 will do and do it better and farther and are reloadable as well. Regardless the op asked about a 17. And I don't think ever stated Remington or rimfire. If Remington my entire argument doesn't apply. I assumed rimfire since he mentioned 22lr and magnum
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Yes
I was thinking rimfire.
 
I had a 17HM2 barrel for one of my 10/22’s for a while, and a low mass bolt. It was absolutely beautiful for killing squirrels and bunnies on a lazy afternoon.

I have a couple 17HMR’s, a Marlin 917, Savage 93R17 Thumbhole, and a Taurus Tracker 6” revolver. Same same, beautifully fun for small game. I’ve taken a few coyotes with them over they years, but I can’t say I recommend them for it. The Taurus revolver is the one which gets the most playtime.

I bought a heavy barrel stainless Bmag a handful of years ago, dropped it into a Boyd’s thumbhole stock and added a Glades Armory bolt handle (highly recommend against doing business with them). Very accurate rifle. Very satisfying results on small game.

I have had a few rifles and specialty pistols in 17cal centerfires, 17 Rem, 17 Mach IV, and 17 Hornet. I just haven’t found quite the right niche for the larger cased 17’s. If I’m reaching out far enough to need that much horsepower, I’d rather be shooting a 77SMK out of a 223/5.56. My 204 Ruger and 20 Practical are in the same boat, I just end up wanting a more aerodynamic bullet and going with a larger caliber. Fantastic rifles, all of them, and the Mach IV is my favorite in the fleet, albeit less practical than the 17 Rem.
 
Armored farmer said:
I have a few .22lr rifles, and two nice .22magnum rifles.

What would a .17 do for me that my .22s wont?
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I asked myself the same question after I bought a 17 HMR when it was the "new thing". Ended up selling it (don't miss it) and keeping the 22 mag, (which I still have).
 
Armored farmer said:
I was curious as to what you .17 guys were using them for.
It sounds like light varmint/pest/target gun.
Click to expand...

I have a heavy barrel Marlin 17 Mach2. I bought it on a whim. It's a laser out to 100 yards and the 4-16x scope wrings out that accuracy. On small game, it destroys a lot of meat, but if you need a body shot on a raccoon, fox or coyote, it will deliver. Keep on mind the Mach2 is on the low end of the spectrum.(2000fps) For rabbits and squirrels, you either take clear head shots, or you throw away a lot of meat. Because the Mach2 might be obsolete soon, I hoard ammo for it. The other 17s you won't have that problem.
 
Could be a good thing about the mach2. You never know, after they are obsolete, some left wing state could pass some asinine .18 max rifle size to effectively disarm folks. It's not as crazy as it may sound, considering that a 500 smith or 44 mag is safe but a sig mosquito or an 11 rd .25 acp is just too dangerous in some areas
We bought probably 10 5mm rifles back when no one made ammo. Never gave over 50 bucks and a few were dirt cheap. I always figured if nothing else we could try to rechamber or something. Now centurion makes ammo and we have plenty. Can't say that ive dragged one out and shot one. No desire too either, but I don't regret buying them
 
I have a Taurus 172 stainless pump in 17. Got it really cheap,really didn't need a 17 but for the price add to the stable. Very accurate with open sights. Never hunted with it so I cant attest to how lethal it is.
 
Armored farmer said:
I was curious as to what you .17 guys were using them for.
It sounds like light varmint/pest/target gun.
Click to expand...
My HMR stands by the back door. It's a relatively inexpensive New England Firearms "Sportster" with a heavy barrel, and it wears an 4X Weaver.
It explodes starlings in the current bushes about 30 yards from the rear deck. And it scares away (for a little while) starlings in the apple tree about 80 yards from the rear deck.
I'm not sure if it's the wind (which is almost a constant in this part of Idaho) or if those tiny bullets are deflected by leaves, but I can't remember ever actually killing a starling in our apple tree. My HMR is pretty loud though. So even at 80 yards, it scares them.:D
Edited to say: My 20 caliber Sheridan "Blue Streak" (which also stands by the back door) pellet rifle, with its Williams, rear aperture sight kills starlings in our current bushes just as dead - without making such a mess. Besides it's cheaper, and not nearly as loud.;)
 
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When I was a kid in the 60’s nothing was cooler than a .22 mag among the boys I knew. Desperately wanted one, never got one. Waited until I was 53 to get one, a CZ 512. Now that I have one I don’t need it, but like it so much I occasionally make burnt offerings to it. I don’t need a .17, have no desire for one, don’t understand why anyone would need one but then again I don’t understand why so many people can’t spell the word Creedmoor.

If you want one though I say pull the trigger. I can’t envision ever owning a .17, but if I did it would be a WSM.
 
"Why do I need a .17?" We can answer the question by starting a list of the dozens, or hundreds, of things we already have but have no serious need for. So why not add a .17 or two? Here are a couple that have been fun to take along on PD shoots: top is a Weatherby/Anschutz that is so pretty that I figured I really "needed" it and bottom is an Anschutz 1717D HB that delivers the full potential of .17HMR ammo. I left a Savage .17 HMR with a farmer friend for sniping at coyotes and he says he's made some long kills with it... DSC_0018.JPG
 
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I have two 17HMRs...an Anschutz 1517MPR and a Sako FinnFire II. Both incredibly accurate. I also have (currently) 2 really fine .22s and an Anchutz 1502 17Mach2. All of these rifles perform extremely well and are best suited to different conditions. So to our OP, you definitely "need" a 17, preferably a rimfire. As you shoot it, conditions will arise for which you will decide the 17 is best suited. I've killed 1,000s of prairie dogs and 100s of squirrels. For dogs I have shot .22LR, 17Mach2, 17HMR, 22 Hornet, .204, .223, .243, and 22-250. Of all of these, under the right conditions, I prefer the 17HMR. Awhile back I went on a prairie dog shoot and it was only a few weeks after shoulder surgery. I was recoil sensitive so mostly chose to shoot the 17HMR. In the past I would switch to a centerfire for shots over 100 yards or if the wind kicked up. But, on this trip I took a chance that the 17HMR would be sufficient. It proved to be fantastic and my respect for this little round grew dramatically. I learned that the round is wind sensitive, but not so much that you can't accommodate the conditions, unless it gets really windy. I would try to shoot between gusts or with/into the wind if convenient . Most of the time it worked out. And if it's calm, shots out to 150 yards with devastating terminal performance were commonplace. By the way, I have killed lots of dogs with the .22LR, but they have to be closer and the terminal performance isn't even close to the .17HMR.
My current favorite squirrel round is the 17Mach2. It is flatter shooting and harder hitting than the .22LR with fewer crawl-offs. Plus it extends the reliable range about 2X the range of the .22LR. I use my .22s in the spring and early fall when the leaves are on and longer shots rarely present. I love my .22s and during that part of the season are my definite favorite. And yeah, head shots are always ideal and essential with 17HMR and 17Mach2. I love the difficult task of choosing the "right" rifle for the target of the day. You will love the round. Let us know which one you buy and don't skimp!
 
The .17 HMR is a 150 yard cartridge for most game/varmints. What is has that the .22 mag doesn't is a flatter trajectory and better accuracy at 100 yards. I don't shoot at any critters beyond 150 yards...mostly under 125.

It shoots groups about 1/2 the size of those .22 WMR barrel groups in the same rifle at 100 yards. The .17HMR barrel is heavier and fluted, but that shouldn't make much difference in quality. I ordered the .17 barrel after-market from CZ, and it fits exactly like the .22 WMR factory-installed one.

This is the chart of how I sight-in my .17 HMR in, using 20 grain Hornady ammo, but I haven't verified at distances beyond 100 yards:
25 yards -.29"
50 " +.53"
75 " +.90"
100 " +.75"
125 " 0.00"
150 " -1.47"
175 " -3.77"
200 " -7.03"

I have several boxes of .22 WMR ammo downstairs, but don't feel like swapping barrels to shoot it.
 
I agree with picher although I'll push the range on an invasive animal if needed.

Picher, I feel like the difference in accuracy has to be the ammo, since my experience mirrors yours, in that 2 identical rifles (I have 2 examples of this myself) the 17 will outshoot the mag. Do you think it's the ammo quality or something else?
 
"Need" has never entered into any decision of mine to buy a rifle. (Which is probably why I have over a dozen .22 rifles.)

I bought the second 17HMR available in my city, back when. I use it to snipe rock squirrels on my woodpile from the front porch. My wife and I helped a neighbor who had a horse pasture full of prairie dogs. She used a 22 rifle with scope and Stingers, and I used my 17. We killed 70 of them by 11:00 am, when it got too hot to have fun.
 
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