It was late when I posted this. I’m not sure on a bullet yet. It’s my brothers guns and he will be using my equipment to load, so bullet type will be what he prefers. I’m guessing something cheap just to punch paper.You don't mention what bullets you intend to use, but I've had good luck with both HP38 and BE86 in 40SW using 155gr. projectiles. I'm sure either will work well with 165s or 180s too - both Hodgdon and Alliant have comprehensive load data for these powders in 40. Below is my data from two loads, a target and a full-power defensive load.
The target load uses the Berry's 155gr. FP plated bullet with HP38. I tested 5.3-5.7gr. of HP38 with CCI500 primer and 1.125" OAL., in a XD Mod.2 4". There may be better powders for 40 depending on bullet choice, but in general I find any powder in this burn rate range works well for target loads. HP38 can't quite make full power due to its burn rate being a little fast, but it's great for 80-90%. I use the 5.5gr. load below as a standard 40 target load.
HP38 B155FP 155BFP 5.3gr
Number of Shots 8
Extreme Spread 57
Average 944
Standard Deviation 18
40SW HP38 155BFP 5.4gr
Number of Shots 7
Extreme Spread 32
Average 955
Standard Deviation 10
40SW HP38 155BFP 5.5gr
Number of Shots 7
Extreme Spread 26
Average 970
Standard Deviation 10
40SW HP38 155BFP 5.6gr
Number of Shots 10
Extreme Spread 44
Average 1000
Standard Deviation 14
40SW HP38 155BFP 5.7gr
Number of Shots 6
Extreme Spread 71
Average 998
Standard Deviation 22
BE86 is good for full-power loads, having a slower burn rate that's very useful in this application This is my ladder with the 155gr. Speer Gold Dot HP. 7.3-7.7gr. of BE86 was tested using CCI500 primers and an OAL of 1.125". At 1189fps max it's a little faster than most factory 155gr. 40 loads. I use the 7.7gr. max load as my standard 40 defensive-style load. With it I am well-armed against water jugs large and small.
40SW BE86 155GD 7.3gr
Number of Shots 8
Extreme Spread 39
Average 1153
Standard Deviation 12
40SW BE86 155GD 7.4gr
Number of Shots 10
Extreme Spread 51
Average 1155
Standard Deviation 13
40SW BE86 155GD 7.5gr
Number of Shots 9
Extreme Spread 36
Average 1159
Standard Deviation 11
40SW BE86 155GD 7.6gr
Number of Shots 10
Extreme Spread 59
Average 1167
Standard Deviation 14
40SW BE86 155GD 7.7gr
Number of Shots 9
Extreme Spread 32
Average 1189
Standard Deviation 9
My P239 has a bit longer barrel than the shield, I think it's .5" longer but I load 155 XTPs and 180 whatevers. I found W231 is middle of the road for .40 powders and loading at the top end of the Hodgedon load data produced major PF. If you want target loads, I'd suggest something faster, Titegroup if you dare, WST is also a really nice soft shooting faster powder and what I load for target. If you want full power SD, go slower with WSF, N340 or CFE Pistol.Going to start loading 40 s&w for an M&P shield and compact and need powder recommendations.
Yeah, the Berry's 155FP I used is good for that. I got a bunch cheap at a clearance sale. I'd recommend whatever 155gr. plated FP bullet you can get cheap, with ~5.5gr of HP38. I've not tried it but a plain lead or coated 155 like Acme with a little lighter charge should work great too.It was late when I posted this. I’m not sure on a bullet yet. It’s my brothers guns and he will be using my equipment to load, so bullet type will be what he prefers. I’m guessing something cheap just to punch paper.
Shooting many full power 40S&W loads in compacts/subcompacts may result in sore hands/wrists the next day wishing you didn't have to write.40 s&w for an M&P shield and compact and need powder recommendations.
I’m not sure on a bullet yet. It’s my brothers guns and he will be using my equipment to load, so bullet type will be what he prefers.
RMR sells pulled 40S&W bullets and at $71.25/1000 shipped with 5% THR discount, is a good price to start working up your loads (And you get a mixture of 180/165/155 bullets to do comparison testing) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ponents-on-sale.707473/page-176#post-11134941I’m guessing something cheap just to punch paper.
Agreed.What I found is heavier 180 gr bullets with lighter powder charges of W231/HP-38 produced lower felt recoil loads than 155/165 gr bullets.
Informative post bds, worthy of a print out. I've never experimented with anything under 180's......being of the camp who consider even 180's too light for self defense (230's for that matter), unless shot at rifle velocities. But that's another subject, with plenty of opinions.
Also I've never used W231/HP-38..........I will finally buy a can....sounds interesting......the recoil factor plays a bigger part for me as more years go by.
I load the 180gr. Armscor FMJs that RMR sells to that velocity level, and the 155@970fps load I recommended above kicks less. If you load to the same muzzle energy level the 180 is going to shoot softer but a 155gr load going about the same velocity as a 180gr. one kicks less. Feels like 9mm to me (147@950fps). The 1200fps BE86 155gr. Gold Dot load I also detailed has enough recoil to talk about. I push the 155s to 1300fps with Longshot and they are pretty stout for 40.I used .40 S&W for range fun only, and preferred 180s at 900 to 950 FPS over faster 155s or 165s. Many factory 180 Gr defensive JHPs don't go any faster.
OP is shooting compact/subcompact and will appreciate lighter loads.M&P shield and compact
Thank you and you are very welcome.Informative post bds, worthy of a print out.
W231/HP-38 is good for producing light loads with 180 gr bullet. Guns & Ammo article author wanted lighter loads for medical reasons and went even lighter than lowest charge I tested which was 3.8 gr - https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/ammunition_40lite_091806/138689I've never used W231/HP-38..........I will finally buy a can....sounds interesting......the recoil factor plays a bigger part for me as more years go by.
So did these.and the 155@970fps load I recommended above kicks less
And I mean mouse fart level kick.Light 155s (750ish FPS)
There's no doubt that slowing a load down by 200fps will make for less kick. But I can't understand why everyone is acting like a 155@970 is something you can't shoot out of a Shield. I question just how soft you need to go - this is a soft shooting load. Softer than anything 180gr. that I've loaded.So did these.
And I mean mouse fart level kick.
They aren't even the OP's guns.. 155gr. loads can be loaded to any power level you like, just like 165s and 180s. No one is recommending 'nuclear' loads - I gave one example of what HP38 is good for and one of what BE86 is good for. If the actual owner of these guns can't tolerate a 155@970fps load it's time to re-think the caliber choice.OP is shooting compact/subcompact and will appreciate lighter loads.
Since OP has HP-38, I think lighter load development with 180/165 gr bullet would be a good start before shooting "nuclear" loads.
Good thing OP also has BE-86 as it is flexible to load accurate mid range loads as well as full power loads.
Just looking to duplicate factory loads.No doubt lighter bullets can get you lighter recoil, period, but what I was implying with 180s is that the typical full power 180s are more pleasant to shoot than the full power 155s/165s. IMHO of course.
After the starting loads with the 155s that gave me 700ish FPS (And good accuracy) I bumped them up and by the time they got to 900ish they were light, but no longer mouse fart level, and I would have to go back, load them side by side with light loaded 180s, and shoot them side by side to see what I preferred.
For true mouse fart loads it's 155s.
But I was originally talking about full power/near full power loads when saying I prefer 180s.
We may have gotten off topic with light loads, as I assumed the OP was talking about full power/near full power stuff. Could be wrong.
As Walkalong posted, I also found less felt recoil "snap" from 180 gr loads compared to 155 gr loads loaded to high-to-near max load data.Just looking to duplicate factory loads.I was originally talking about full power/near full power loads when saying I prefer 180s.