1911 Mysticism

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr. Mosin said:
Anyways, my buddies say I need a hi cap 9mm; but I don’t necessarily want one. They say the 1911 is finicky, unreliable, and junk.
Click to expand...

"They say, they say, they say..."

I've found in life that "They" often know nothing of what they speak.

A pistol design does NOT last over a century, and well into the 21st century at that, virtually unchanged for no reason.

Another thing... the beauty of our world is that we can own as many guns as we personally wish. It's not as if we have to give up one for another.

You want a high capacity 9mm? Buy one. Heck, buy 12 if that floats your boat.

OR... and here's the kicker... DON'T.

Buy what you want for whatever reason you want. Just like the looks? Buy. Like the caliber? Buy. Make a great carry piece? Buy. Cheaper to shoot? Buy. Always wanted one? Buy. Need a safe queen? Buy. Want to one-up your buddies? Buy. Think it might be a good investment? Buy.

In fact, about the only dumb reason I can think of to buy another gun is because "They" think you need to because what you already have is, somehow, stupid or needs replacing. Let them blow their money how they wish.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
"They say, they say, they say..."

I've found in life that "They" often know nothing of what they speak.

A pistol design does NOT last over a century, and well into the 21st century at that, virtually unchanged for no reason.

Another thing... the beauty of our world is that we can own as many guns as we personally wish. It's not as if we have to give up one for another.

You want a high capacity 9mm? Buy one. Heck, buy 12 if that floats your boat.

OR... and here's the kicker... DON'T.

Buy what you want for whatever reason you want. Just like the looks? Buy. Like the caliber? Buy. Make a great carry piece? Buy. Cheaper to shoot? Buy. Always wanted one? Buy. Need a safe queen? Buy. Want to one-up your buddies? Buy. Think it might be a good investment? Buy.

In fact, about the only dumb reason I can think of to buy another gun is because "They" think you need to because what you already have is, somehow, stupid or needs replacing. Let them blow their money how they wish.
Click to expand...

One of my buddies is a former USN line coach, (and all sorts of stuff I can’t remember) and combat vet. I respect his opinion, and honor his sacrifice of service. His opinion is that as a first carry gun, a hi cap 9mm in polymer is best to learn on, and best to carry in regards to weight vs firepower. I generally agree.... I just... don’t necessarily want a hi cap 9x19 in polymer.

If I, for some reason; have to hand my handgun to my mother, sister, arthritic grandmama; to defend themselves, I don’t want to have to give a crash course in ‘semi auto’ that they will never remember. A revolver is simple. Open cylinder, put cartridges in, close cylinder. Point and pull. Repeat until empty. With a semi auto, you have FTF/FTE, risk of dropping mag, “Did I chamber a round ?”, etc, etc. That, and a S&W 442; you can shove in your pocket.

Back on topic- I do want a 1911 for my personal handgun.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
One of my buddies is a former USN line coach and combat vet. I respect his opinion, and honor his sacrifice of service. His opinion is that as a first carry gun, a hi cap 9mm in polymer is best to learn on, and best to carry in regards to weight vs firepower. I generally agree.... I just... don’t necessarily want a hi cap 9x19 in polymer.
Click to expand...
I was a medic in the Army and learned to handle various weapons while I worked in my unit's armory (Where I was introduced to 1911 and learned to make them reliable as they weren't out of the box new) but truly learned to shoot properly and effectively from shooting USPSA matches and from top regional match shooters. Same goes for LEO as my wife's cousins are PD Sergeant and SD Deputy and they are lousy shooters. When I shot USPSA, we hosted many servicemen and LEO and they were not proficient shooters but we took care to properly train them to engage multiple targets fast and accurate.

Just because one is a veteran does not make him/her a weapons expert and proficient shooter. You can respect and honor him for his service but don't have to agree with his individual opinion.

What I do tell people is to handle as many pistols as they can (Dry fire while watching the front sight and choose the one that does not move/jerk the front sight - The hallmark of a good accurate match pistol) and shoot as many pistols as they can and CHOOSE the pistol they can shoot fastest and most accurate, regardless of brand or price. For some people, it's the 1911. For many people, it's the Glock.

My wife got to shoot a lot of pistols and narrowed her choice of defensive pistols down to 40S&W Glocks and she is deadly with them. Her statement is, "If I can see anything inside the house, I can hit it."

When my sister got scared after a homeless person tried to break into her house, she wanted a defensive pistol and after shooting various pistols, chose M&P40 as she was comfortable with it and could shoot fast and accurate. She is very proficient with her M&P40 and to their amazement, she outshot other male match shooters shooting 9mm pistols.

I teach/share defensive point shooting as PIF - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-2#post-11175698

Recently met a neighbor whose girlfriend wanted a carry pistol as her work got robbed at gunpoint along with businesses around her work. After trying different pistols and being taught to point shoot by me, she ended up showing proficiency with Glock 23. I am currently teaching elderly couple and their neighbors and they showed proficiency with Glock 22/23 with 40-9 conversion barrels and they chose to go with Glock 19s.

Me? While I am proficient with Glocks, my heart belongs to 1911. My railed Sig 1911 XO with 10,000+ rounds through it "melds" into my hands like a tight glove and for some reason, I get that "special" feeling whenever I grab it. I recently ordered Fusion Firearms complete 9mm slide so I could enjoy my Sig 1911 even more.

I am also growing to like GSG 1911 22LR (Same as Sig 1911 22LR) and at low 22LR prices of $15-$20/500, I enjoy shooting it even more - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...15-20-500-shipped.853059/page-2#post-11173609

Mr. Mosin said:
I do want a 1911 for my personal handgun.
Click to expand...
It's a free country and life is short and we are going to die and stuff.

Do what you want and don't pay attention to others trying to change your mind.

While I like my Glocks, I love my 1911s.
 
Last edited:
Mr. Mosin said:
2. Still no interest in .45 Auto. Excellent round; but now... I must ask ‘why’ ? On average, .45 Auto is twice the price per box of 50, holds less rounds per platform, and generally has the same performance (again, refer to Greg Ellifritz’s study on handgun ballistics. Again... I ask ‘why’ ? If it is for sentimental or historicity; more power to you. But to claim superiority when multiple credible sources state otherwise (G. Ellifritz, FBI, vast majority of LEO agencies) is an endeavor in futility and a breeding ground of ignorance.
Click to expand...

I reload and cast my own boolits. The cost difference between .45 ACP and 9mm is so small it can be ignored. I shoot .45 ACP because I like to.
 
bds said:
I was a medic in the Army and learned to handle various weapons while I worked in my unit's armory (Where I was introduced to 1911 and learned to make them reliable as they weren't out of the box new) but truly learned to shoot properly and effectively from shooting USPSA matches and from top regional match shooters. Same goes for LEO as my wife's cousins are PD Sergeant and SD Deputy and they are lousy shooters. When I shot USPSA, we hosted many servicemen and LEO and they were not proficient shooters but we took care to properly train them to engage multiple targets fast and accurate.

Just because one is a veteran does not make him/her a weapons expert and proficient shooter. You can respect and honor him for his service but don't have to agree with his individual opinion.

What I do tell people is to handle as many pistols as they can (Dry fire while watching the front sight and choose the one that does not move/jerk the front sight - The hallmark of a good accurate match pistol) and shoot as many pistols as they can and CHOOSE the pistol they can shoot fastest and most accurate, regardless of brand or price. For some people, it's the 1911. For many people, it's the Glock.

My wife got to shoot a lot of pistols and narrowed her choice of defensive pistols down to 40S&W Glocks and she is deadly with them. Her statement is, "If I can see anything inside the house, I can hit it."

When my sister got scared after a homeless person tried to break into her house, she wanted a defensive pistol and after shooting various pistols, chose M&P40 as she was comfortable with it and could shoot fast and accurate. She is very proficient with her M&P40 and to their amazement, she outshot other male match shooters shooting 9mm pistols.

I teach/share defensive point shooting as PIF - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...endence-from-work.853305/page-2#post-11175698

Recently met a neighbor whose girlfriend wanted a carry pistol as her work got robbed at gunpoint along with businesses around her work. After trying different pistols and being taught to point shoot by me, she ended up showing proficiency with Glock 23. I am currently teaching elderly couple and their neighbors and they showed proficiency with Glock 22/23 with 40-9 conversion barrels and they chose to go with Glock 19s.

Me? While I am proficient with Glocks, my heart belongs to 1911. My railed Sig 1911 XO with 10,000+ rounds through it "melds" into my hands like a tight glove and for some reason, I get that "special" feeling whenever I grab it. I recently ordered Fusion Firearms complete 9mm slide so I could enjoy my Sig 1911 even more.

I am also growing to like GSG 1911 22LR (Same as Sig 1911 22LR) and at low 22LR prices of $15-$20/500, I enjoy shooting it even more - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...15-20-500-shipped.853059/page-2#post-11173609


It's a free country and life is short and we are going to die and stuff.

Do what you want and don't pay attention to others trying to change your mind.

While I like my Glocks, I love my 1911s.
Click to expand...


I’ve seen this guy shoot. He is very good. But yeah. I get it. Do what I want.
 
460Shooter said:
Sure but without mechanical accuracy the skill of a shooter can become mostly irrelevant.

If a gun is mechanically accurate at 25 yards and the shooter is able to shoot the gun at all, a closer target will always be easier to get accurate hits on than a further target.
Click to expand...

Again...

I'll take a rattle-trap 24 MOA 1911 with an icicle trigger over an 8 MOA anything that had a heavy/crappy trigger.

In SD shooting, people miss by feet... at close range... not parts of an inch.

Good trigger, Low bore line, comfortable grip, natural grip angle, etc... trump mechanical accuracy.




GR
 
I own many samples of Glock, M&P's, and Sigs.
My 1911's are just as reliable of which I own RockRiver (old samples), Colt and Les Baer.

All of my 1911's will feed and fire my 255 grain hard cast SWC reloads intended for .45 Colt. The others will NOT.
 
Garandimal said:
These are "Ransom Rest" tests.

SD shooting - is a long way from that. I'll take a rattle-trap 24 MOA 1911 with an icicle trigger over an 8 MOA anything that had a heavy/crappy trigger.
Click to expand...
Well, first....…...how much experience do you have in self defense shootings?:scrutiny:
I'll bet a Whataburger #5 that in the event of a self defense shooting the last thing you'll notice or even appreciate is the crisp icicle trigger of your 1911. In fact, that's why most departments DON'T allow trigger jobs. Fine motor skills under extreme duress are nothing like shooting at paper outlines of bad guys.

There are dozens of videos of trained, experienced police officers pulling the trigger as fast as they could while seeking cover. I doubt any of them bragged about the crispness of their trigger, but instead thanked their department for issuing a pistol with a magazine capacity of more than seven.
 
Garandimal said:
Good trigger, Low bore line, comfortable grip, natural grip angle, etc... trump mechanical accuracy.
Click to expand...
1. Glocks have a low bore line.
2. I laugh at those who whine about "grip angles" when the Glock has basically the same grip angle of a 1911 w/arched mainspring housing.
If the only "grip angle" you can manage is the 1911 I pity you. There are hundreds of handguns and hundreds of grip angles.
3. Dislike is one thing, calling it unnatural is sheer ignorance.
4. Oddly, "mechanical accuracy" translates into practical accuracy in the hands of someone who actually trains with a particular firearm.
5. Glock or 1911 is silly. Get both.
 
dogtown tom said:
1. Glocks have a low bore line.
2. I laugh at those who whine about "grip angles" when the Glock has basically the same grip angle of a 1911 w/arched mainspring housing.
If the only "grip angle" you can manage is the 1911 I pity you. There are hundreds of handguns and hundreds of grip angles.
3. Dislike is one thing, calling it unnatural is sheer ignorance.
4. Oddly, "mechanical accuracy" translates into practical accuracy in the hands of someone who actually trains with a particular firearm.
5. Glock or 1911 is silly. Get both.
Click to expand...


I personally have no quarrel with Glock. I do think they are overrated, in regards that almost any modern manufactured polymer service pistol will be as reliable (or more reliable (CZ-P01))than a run of the mill Glock. Twenty years ago, sure; they were king of the service pistols. Now ? Gaston Glock has sat stagnant in his accomplishments, and his competition has equaled or succeeded him. I just dislike em because of the ergonomics (no ergonomics) and the grip angle (it just feels weird to me). Not knocking Glock, but the market is saturated with its equals and superiors. If Glock was truly ‘oerfection’, every LEO, and anyone headed into combat would have one their side.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
If Glock was truly ‘oerfection’, every LEO, and anyone headed into combat would have one their side.
Click to expand...

really??? would they also drive Malibu's and Exploders?
Government procurement is more about $ and acceptable.
 
My children and grandchildren like Glock's and I have one. My next one will be a 1911 to go with my other 1911's. I like the 1911 over anything else I have tried.
 
Mr. Mosin said:
I personally have no quarrel with Glock. I do think they are overrated, in regards that almost any modern manufactured polymer service pistol will be as reliable (or more reliable (CZ-P01))than a run of the mill Glock.
Click to expand...
Yet the US military, FBI, CBP, Secret Service and the rest of Homeland Security disagree. Remember, at the end of the M17 trials only Glock and Sig were left, and Sig won based on cost. While you might firmly believe the CZ-P01 is fantastic, virtually no major US law enforcement agency issues them.




Twenty years ago, sure; they were king of the service pistols. Now ?.
Click to expand...
I'll still say Glock is king. Everyone else has been chasing Glock and for the last twenty years the gun highway has been littered with "Glock killers"......pistols that supposedly knock Glock back across the pond but failed. Remember Caracal? Steyr? S&W Sigma? Ruger of the month? FN anything?

Gaston Glock has sat stagnant in his accomplishments, and his competition has equaled or succeeded him
Click to expand...
I don't know if I would say stagnant, but cautious definitely. And other than losing the M17 competition.....where has Glock been beaten by anyone else? Heck, even equaled?
I will say the increased competition caused Glock Inc to adopt newer models and configurtions that likely cause GG to lose sleep every night. And Gaston Glock is in his 90's, I wonder what we'll see once he's passed. Of note is what happened at Ruger after Bill Ruger died.


I just dislike em because of the ergonomics (no ergonomics) and the grip angle (it just feels weird to me).
Click to expand...
<---FN Browning Hi Power fanboy, btw.
I used to feel the same about Glocks. But changed my mind 180 degrees after buying a G19 and dry firing a couple of thousand times. Now when I grab a Glock 17/19/26 it doesn't feel like I'm grabbing a 2x4. But now my HP's feel skinny.

Not knocking Glock, but the market is saturated with its equals and superiors. If Glock was truly ‘oerfection’, every LEO, and anyone headed into combat would have one their side.
Click to expand...
More LE, state, local and Federal DO. And US military units that get to choose their handguns have chosen Glocks (SEALS and other Special Operations forces)
While the market may be saturated, Glocks get bought.
 
My Canik TP9SF beats Glock hands down. Higher capacity, better/metal sights, better trigger than a upgraded Glock, Almost half the cost.
 
dogtown tom said:
...There are dozens of videos of trained, experienced police officers pulling the trigger as fast as they could while seeking cover...
Click to expand...

LEO's - aren't responsible for their misses... they are more concerned with going home at the end of their shift.


dogtown tom said:
1. Glocks have a low bore line.
2. I laugh at those who whine about "grip angles" when the Glock has basically the same grip angle of a 1911 w/arched mainspring housing.
If the only "grip angle" you can manage is the 1911 I pity you. There are hundreds of handguns and hundreds of grip angles.
3. Dislike is one thing, calling it unnatural is sheer ignorance.
4. Oddly, "mechanical accuracy" translates into practical accuracy in the hands of someone who actually trains with a particular firearm.
5. Glock or 1911 is silly. Get both.
Click to expand...

Both my primary EDC, and my "Go-to-War" pistol... are GLOCKs.

Mechanical accuracy - in an SD pistol?

...is a placebo.

How YOU shoot the pistol is all that matters.

Grilled onions, no mayo, lettuce-wrapped.

:D




GR
 
Last edited:
Garandimal said:
Ask the NYPD - why they quite keeping track of rounds fired in officer involved shootings.

:D




GR
Click to expand...
My o_O has nothing to do with how many rounds are fired but your statement: "LEO's - aren't responsible for their misses..."
That most certainly is not true for LE or anyone else. You are responsible for every round that leaves you barrel, whether at a range, in your home or apartment or on the street.
There is a rookie police officer here in Texas that fired at a dog, but struck a woman behind the dog...…...he'll be lucky to get off just losing his job. Most likely he and the City of Arlington will face a civil suit as well: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arling...ntally-killing-maggie-brooks-shooting-at-dog/

You tell her family that LEO's aren't responsible.
 
dogtown tom said:
My o_O has nothing to do with how many rounds are fired but your statement: "LEO's - aren't responsible for their misses..."
That most certainly is not true for LE or anyone else. You are responsible for every round that leaves you barrel, whether at a range, in your home or apartment or on the street.
There is a rookie police officer here in Texas that fired at a dog, but struck a woman behind the dog...…...he'll be lucky to get off just losing his job. Most likely he and the City of Arlington will face a civil suit as well: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arling...ntally-killing-maggie-brooks-shooting-at-dog/

You tell her family that LEO's aren't responsible.
Click to expand...

Then do me a solid and point out for me in this article where the LEO's were charged with anything?

...like I would have been.

Thanks buddy.




GR
 
Last edited:
"If I, for some reason, have to hand my handgun to my mother, sister, or arthritic grandmama to defend themselves, I don’t want to have to give a crash course in ‘semi auto’ that they will never remember. A revolver is simple. Open cylinder, put cartridges in, close cylinder. Point and pull. Repeat until empty."


I agree completely. To me, a revolver is the proper handgun for a "non gun person" who isn't going to practice much.

I practice a lot, and I still prefer my LCR for carry and a larger revolver for HD. I just shoot them better.

But like the other poster said, that sure hasn't stopped me from buying other handguns that interested me for one reason or another. ;)
 
dogtown tom said:
Well, first....…...how much experience do you have in self defense shootings?:scrutiny:
I'll bet a Whataburger #5 that in the event of a self defense shooting the last thing you'll notice or even appreciate is the crisp icicle trigger of your 1911. In fact, that's why most departments DON'T allow trigger jobs. Fine motor skills under extreme duress are nothing like shooting at paper outlines of bad guys.

There are dozens of videos of trained, experienced police officers pulling the trigger as fast as they could while seeking cover. I doubt any of them bragged about the crispness of their trigger, but instead thanked their department for issuing a pistol with a magazine capacity of more than seven.
Click to expand...


I HIGHLY doubt that any Glock could pass the CZ-P01’s service trial.
 
Tallball said:
"If I, for some reason, have to hand my handgun to my mother, sister, or arthritic grandmama to defend themselves, I don’t want to have to give a crash course in ‘semi auto’ that they will never remember. A revolver is simple. Open cylinder, put cartridges in, close cylinder. Point and pull. Repeat until empty."


I agree completely. To me, a revolver is the proper handgun for a "non gun person" who isn't going to practice much.

I practice a lot, and I still prefer my LCR for carry and a larger revolver for HD. I just shoot them better.

But like the other poster said, that sure hasn't stopped me from buying other handguns that interested me for one reason or another. ;)
Click to expand...

Meh. Still indecisive. S&W 442 vs RIA 1911 vs Ruger SP101 (3” barrel, .357 Magnum).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
Rock Island 1911 a2
Replies
6
Views
733
gunlaw
G
ChasMack
  • Locked
Question about Kimber rimfire conversion kit for 1911
Replies
3
Views
647
billbunton
B
Mullo98
  • Locked
First 1911, Gangster style
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
Eddietruett
E
T
  • Locked
Why hasn't the Hi Power gone the way of the 1911?
2 3 4 5
Replies
114
Views
6K
browningguy
B
S
  • Locked
9mm 1911's
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
PO2Hammer
PO2Hammer
Back
Top