Silencer question before I fill in my Form 1

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Hasaf

Hasaf

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I am looking at making a silencer for my CZ Scorpion EVO S1. However, before anything gets ordered I need to have my Stamp and returned Form 1 in my hand. That means that I am not ordering anything right now.

My concern is that I have to fill in the Length of something I don't have yet. I am thinking about 8" long.

How thick is an endcap for the standard home build kits?
How precise should I be on the length, as in if I write 8", am I good for 8"~9", or does it mean a scrubbed surface and measured with a calliper 8.00"?

How are people getting them engraved? Will a trophy shop do it, and if they do, do I need to be there while they engrave it? Or, are people just home Dremelling them?

I am also a bit concerned about the point in time that is between when I take possession of the kit and I engrave it. Am I safe by just not doing the final drilling before it is engraved?

Can anyone point me toward any kits they like (if that isn't allowed, I am fine with that)?
 
If you have your paperwork filed there isn't any reason why you can't have materials (as opposed to "parts") for your suppressor. Engrave the tube after you get approval just in case there is a hiccup, and put the approx length, or what you intend it to be, and if it ends up longer or shorter, you can tell the ATF about the difference.
 
Hasaf said:
I am looking at making a silencer for my CZ Scorpion EVO S1. However, before anything gets ordered I need to have my Stamp and returned Form 1 in my hand. That means that I am not ordering anything right now.
Click to expand...

You can purchase parts you intend to convert into silencer parts any time. You just can't actually convert them until you have your approved F1.

Hasaf said:
How thick is an endcap for the standard home build kits?
Click to expand...

1, they are not "home build kits". That would be illegal. The items you are looking at may be solvent traps, may be fuel filters, or something else that can be altered & repurposed as a firearm silencer. 2, there is no "standard". Some of the caps are pretty thin, others are insanely thick.

Hasaf said:
How precise should I be on the length, as in if I write 8", am I good for 8"~9", or does it mean a scrubbed surface and measured with a calliper 8.00"?
Click to expand...

ATF has unofficially stated in letters that within 1" is an acceptable range. I generally recommend specifying at half inch intervals and trying to stay within 1/2" of the listed length. Whether or not a removable mount is counted toward that length is really up to the maker, as there is no ruling on that, either. If your F1 says 8" and the can is 7" with a 1" long adapter, that makes 8". If your F1 says 8" and the can itself with no mount adapter measures 8", well, that's also accurate.

Hasaf said:
How are people getting them engraved? Will a trophy shop do it, and if they do, do I need to be there while they engrave it? Or, are people just home Dremelling them?
Click to expand...

Laser is very popular. If you opt for a titanium tube, I'd recommend a mechanical means unless you know the laser engraving will be done properly in an inert atmosphere. Laser engraving in open atmosphere will cause hydrogen embrittlement in the heat affected zone, which can lead to tube ruptures.

Hasaf said:
I am also a bit concerned about the point in time that is between when I take possession of the kit and I engrave it. Am I safe by just not doing the final drilling before it is engraved?
Click to expand...

Again, the kits you are referring to are not silencers. So there is no regulation of them, no restrictions on possession.

As for when to engrave, also no official policy on doing that before or after manufacturing. I don't recommend having an unengraved NFA item laying around for any length of time, though, and once you convert it into a silencer, your options for engravers narrows significantly, requiring either that you be physically present the entire time the the engraver has possession of it, or that the engraver be an FFL with SOT

Hasaf said:
Can anyone point me toward any kits they like (if that isn't allowed, I am fine with that)?
Click to expand...

You will be better off sourcing the parts individually in most cases. Decide on your tube diameter, then search for parts. What you want will be largely dependent on your skill level and equipment, though.
 
I have used a Dremel vibra pen on all of my Form 1 titanium silencers. Create a stencil on self adhesive address labels that fit your tube with all appropriate information. Practice on a piece of scrap metal until you obtain acceptable results with your penmanship, then go for it on your silencer tube. If you are a perfectionist and want to show off your silencer, you'd probably better take it to a trophy shop or similar. If instead you realize that you will never be able to re-sell a Form 1 silencer and you are planning to use it, not show it, the Dremel vibra pen is quite acceptable. Just make sure you penetrate the surface deep enough to comply.
 
If you have the parts and they can't be put together and used as a "silencer" with out machining what are they going to do?
I would recommend having the paper work all filled out passport pics attached, form of payment enclosed and all you need is the measurements.
That way you get the kit, whip out your tape measure, scratch down the measurements and drop it in the mail 10 minutes later.
Then wait 10 months and try to forgetabout it while you are waiting.

Because, what if you send it off and the company stops making that kit 6 months from now, a year later you have a tax stamp for a can that you can't easily build, the way you expected...
 
748 said:
If you have the parts and they can't be put together and used as a "silencer" with out machining what are they going to do?
I would recommend having the paper work all filled out passport pics attached, form of payment enclosed and all you need is the measurements.
That way you get the kit, whip out your tape measure, scratch down the measurements and drop it in the mail 10 minutes later.
Then wait 10 months and try to forgetabout it while you are waiting.

Because, what if you send it off and the company stops making that kit 6 months from now, a year later you have a tax stamp for a can that you can't easily build, the way you expected...
Click to expand...

My last form 1 I sent in on January 13 2020 and had the stamp in my hands on March 2 2020.
48 days from the date mailed until delivery.

SC45-70
 
748 said:
If you have the parts and they can't be put together and used as a "silencer" with out machining what are they going to do?
I would recommend having the paper work all filled out passport pics attached, form of payment enclosed and all you need is the measurements.
That way you get the kit, whip out your tape measure, scratch down the measurements and drop it in the mail 10 minutes later.
Then wait 10 months and try to forgetabout it while you are waiting.

Because, what if you send it off and the company stops making that kit 6 months from now, a year later you have a tax stamp for a can that you can't easily build, the way you expected...
Click to expand...

You can also do an eForm 1, & have your stamp back in 20-60 days.

I am here in Texas and I received two eForm 1’s back in 22 days each. During the Civil-19 crisis as well!
 
Well, my form 1 is electronically filed and my fingerprints are in the mail.

The only thing that presented a problem was that the Sheriff's Office wanted the printed copy of the complete application. The PDF that I was sent with the cover letter, that I had printed, was protected to disable printing.

I used the "Ask an Expert" button in the ATF website and explained the problem, they very quickly sent me an unprotected copy of my application to print.

Once I had the application and cover letter, along with the fingerprint cards the ATF had sent me, I went back to the SO and it all went smoothly at that point.
 
Last edited:
SC45-70 said:
My guess would be that there are probably hundreds of form 4's filed for every form 1.

SC45-70
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Absolutely.....

Its the one reason that they havent done eForm 4's yet. If they did it would overwhelm the servers. They are working to add eForm 4 in the future, however when that will be, will be anyones guess.

Unless congress or the President pushes the issue, they will take their time in getting eForm 4's available.
 
The completed application went out on 11 May 2020. It was returned approved today, 4 June 2020. That looks like 17 working days.

That puts it here well before the AliExpress materials ordered on the next day.
 
Hasaf said:
The completed application went out on 11 May 2020. It was returned approved today, 4 June 2020. That looks like 17 working days.

That puts it here well before the AliExpress materials ordered on the next day.
Click to expand...
Lot of people are complaining that customs is confiscating ones ordered from overseas. Even if you have an approved form 1 customs wants you to go to IL, NY, CA or wherever it came into the country at and retrieve it in person. From what I can tell customs appears to be clueless as to what paper work you are supposed to even have.
They make it sound like you are supposed to have a form 1 but they also make it seem like you're expected to have a class 7 ffl too, but they don't even know what that is.
What I am sure of is if you call some one at customs they won't know what they are talking about.
 
748 said:
Lot of people are complaining that customs is confiscating ones ordered from overseas. Even if you have an approved form 1 customs wants you to go to IL, NY, CA or wherever it came into the country at and retrieve it in person. From what I can tell customs appears to be clueless as to what paper work you are supposed to even have.
They make it sound like you are supposed to have a form 1 but they also make it seem like you're expected to have a class 7 ffl too, but they don't even know what that is.
What I am sure of is if you call some one at customs they won't know what they are talking about.
Click to expand...
Imported NFA firearms are not transferable to anyone but LE or military, so even an 07/SOT may not be able to take possession. An Importers 08FFL may be required.
Customs doesn't know ATF regs anymore than ATF knows Customs regs.

A Form 1 is for making an NFA firearm and has nothing to do with importing. As there is no such thing as an "80%" silencer, you run the risk of someone at ATF/Customs/etc determining that your fuel filter/solvent trap is really a silencer.

IMO opinion the risk isn't worth a felony. This article at TTAG is enlightening: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/facebook-allows-dubious-ads-for-fuel-filters/
 
I am just waiting to see if anyone actually gets arrested or any lawsuits start popping up. As of yet, I have found neither. But just because I haven’t found either, doesn’t mean that their aren’t any either, or won’t be in the future.

The simplest solution would be to get the hearing act passed... but with all the anti gunners running around with all the liberal Democrats, that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
 
Texasgrillchef said:
I am just waiting to see if anyone actually gets arrested or any lawsuits start popping up. As of yet, I have found neither. But just because I haven’t found either, doesn’t mean that their aren’t any either, or won’t be in the future.
Click to expand...
ATF doesn't have to charge you to make your life miserable and expensive.


The simplest solution would be to get the hearing act passed... but with all the anti gunners running around with all the liberal Democrats, that’s not going to happen anytime soon.
Click to expand...
The HPA has NEVER had more than a 5% chance of passage even when Republicans held the Presidency, Senate and House.
It is pablum from supposed pro Second Amendment politicians to placate conservatives. When asked if there should be restrictions on silencers, Trump replied, "I don't like them at all."
We need to stop electing phonies.
 
dogtown tom said:
Imported NFA firearms are not transferable to anyone but LE or military, so even an 07/SOT may not be able to take possession. An Importers 08FFL may be required.
Customs doesn't know ATF regs anymore than ATF knows Customs regs.

A Form 1 is for making an NFA firearm and has nothing to do with importing. As there is no such thing as an "80%" silencer, you run the risk of someone at ATF/Customs/etc determining that your fuel filter/solvent trap is really a silencer.

IMO opinion the risk isn't worth a felony. This article at TTAG is enlightening: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/facebook-allows-dubious-ads-for-fuel-filters/
Click to expand...
That's why I say buy US made stuff.
The difference is only 20 or 30 bucks for Chicom dog sht compared to US sourced.
But I suspect alot of the really cheap "US ones" are Chicom but they import the bits individually so customs doesn't catch it.
 
dogtown tom said:
ATF doesn't have to charge you to make your life miserable and expensive.



The HPA has NEVER had more than a 5% chance of passage even when Republicans held the Presidency, Senate and House.
It is pablum from supposed pro Second Amendment politicians to placate conservatives. When asked if there should be restrictions on silencers, Trump replied, "I don't like them at all."
We need to stop electing phonies.
Click to expand...
The public has been conditioned to believe that people who use silencers are elite criminals and assassins. I'm good with that lable, but I am more interested in them being regulated like regular old title 1 firearms.
 
748 said:
That's why I say buy US made stuff.
The difference is only 20 or 30 bucks for Chicom dog sht compared to US sourced.
But I suspect alot of the really cheap "US ones" are Chicom but they import the bits individually so customs doesn't catch it.
Click to expand...

I also follow the form 1 forum and I see that a lot of the "American" materials are suspiciously similar to the materials from Chinese suppliers.

Mostly, I was curious about what a Chinese solvent trap would give me. If it never arrives, I am not out much.

There have only been a few times that AliExpress stuff has not delivered or refunded. However, most of what I order is Lego knock off (remember, the bricks are out of patent). I am a teacher and one of the things I teach is Robotics. In that, we use the Lego robotic controllers and EV3 kit. However, I need to have a lot of Lego-fu. To get a lot of practice I build many different Lego models (they get quite intricate). In order to keep the cost down, I use AliExpress for most of my purchases (of course, right after Christmas, a lot of the Lego brand goes on sale).

I got the Form 1 first, so I am not too worried about an ATF sting. I do expect to eventually compare it to US sourced materials when I get a stamp and do another. So, I am mostly interested in what a $30 trap really provides. I will post if it ever arrives.

The order tracking says:
  • Despatch from Sorting Center
    2020-05-21 21:02:42

  • Processed Through Facility
    2020-05-21 14:54:00 [CHINA,HANGZHOU EMS]

  • Processed Through Facility
    2020-05-21 06:51:00 [CHINA,HANGZHOU]

  • Post office collection.
    2020-05-20 12:48:00

  • Outbound in sorting center
    2020-05-13 06:14:32 [GMT+8]

  • Inbound in sorting center
    2020-05-12 13:11:21 [GMT+8]

  • Accepted by carrier
    2020-05-11 14:25:09 [GMT+8]
Click to expand...

But AliExpress vendors regularly create fake shipping documents. As an example, I had a (Lego Knock off) order that had been in shipping for three months. Finally, the vendor wrote to me and admitted that they could not source the item. I lived in China long enough to understand that this is part of the game.
 
You can pay around $40 for cheap chicom one that's already in the US and it will definitely show up.
I want to form 1 of these trash cans for 22LR I think it will work ok.
 
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