Debunking Myth: Shoving Muzzle into Threat(s) Gut

The gullet and the gut are two different targets, and would have two different terminal results.

Do a search...I used “contact wound revolver”. One of the first hits was:

https://www.bevfitchett.us/gunshot-wounds/contact-wounds-1.html

It takes an academic approach. It may or may not answer your question. Other sources would be Fackler or Ayoob. Both are pretty good.

A revolver also has something akin to a gas port safety due to the cylinder gap at the forcing cone of the barrel.

You can't put enough pressure in your push into the gut to keep the revolver from doing its job. Those gases will cause his flesh to give to vent some, and the rest of them, along with the bullet, are going to penetrate the body.

Pretty sure a bad wound is a bad wound regardless of whether it’s at 5 yards, 5”, or contact distance. It honestly never occurred to me whether the wound would be “different” due to the gas at contact distance or not. Either way I sure wouldn’t want to get shot to find out, and the I have to think that the wound would stop or not stop the malefactor depending more on shot placement than contact effect. Right?

I remember reading some Ayoob piece and he stated it worked best with a revolver since you can't push it out of battery and the expanding gases would add to the effect of the shot. How much would depend on the caliber. I would think the 357 would be impressive. But I also feel if you let someone get close enough to stick a gun in their gut you should work on your tactics and visual scouting.

I read a detective story many years ago in one of the old magazines like Argosy, or one of them. In the story, the good guy was somehow able to keep the tip of his finger pressed into the muzzle of the bad guy's pistol. The bad guy was afraid to pull the trigger because he thought with the good guy's finger in the muzzle, the barrel would explode from the build up of pressure. It was just fiction, not a true story, and I thought it was ridiculous even way back when I read it.

Remember, even a blanks can kill. Yes, the bullet is the important part...but high velocity gas can be fatal.

https://www.ranker.com/list/people-killed-by-prop-weapons/juliet-bennett-rylah

very similar to diving off a diving board into a swimming pool vs falling 12,000 feet into the ocean....

pv=nrt

and

p=f/a

A very famous gut shot.



I got curious so, I looked up the autopsy report.

That .38 Special tore up almost every vital organ in his body!!

It would seem to me that if one were to do this the most likely result would be a very angry but still dangerous enemy(depending on caliber and nature of round). You could either angle the barrell up to take out heart or lung, or keep pulling the trigger until it clicks. Thoughts?

OK, in "Support Your Local Sheriff" hero James
Garner sticks finger into barrel of .45 sixshooter
and warns Walter Brennan he'll lose his hand
if he pulls the trigger. Brennan backs off.

Proof enough for me.

sgt127 said:

A very famous gut shot.

View attachment 953750

I got curious so, I looked up the autopsy report.

That .38 Special tore up almost every vital organ in his body!!

View attachment 953751

Click to expand...

But wait! You mean the inferior .38 Special did all that? Not a magical 9mm or the magical yet masculine .45 ACP? Some would call this blasphemy! Heresy even!

NOTE: If that comment raised your blood pressure a tad please know that it was meant in jest. It was a joke. It was in fun. Please don’t freak out and hijack the thread defending the honor of your favorite inanimate objects or their specified cartridges.

In all seriousness, that autopsy report is quite something. I did not know this. Thanks for posting it. I sure wish I would have had knowledge of this at a CHL class I was taking in Oregon when the instructor actually referred to this shooting stating that the only reason Oswald died was because Ruby got lucky with shot placement. A lady there stated that she had bought a Ruger .38 revolver as her concealed carry gun and when asked why not a compact 9mm somehow the subject of this shooting got brought up into the conversation.
The instructor was a bit of a jackass and his droning on and on and on was quite intolerable. The law said “8 hour class”. He made sure he filled those 8 hours.

Pat Riot said:

But wait! You mean the inferior .38 Special did all that? Not a magical 9mm or the magical yet masculine .45 ACP? Some would call this blasphemy! Heresy even!

NOTE: If that comment raised your blood pressure a tad please know that it was meant in jest. It was a joke. It was in fun. Please don’t freak out and hijack the thread defending the honor of your favorite inanimate objects or their specified cartridges.

In all seriousness, that autopsy report is quite something. I did not know this. Thanks for posting it. I sure wish I would have had knowledge of this at a CHL class I was taking in Oregon when the instructor actually referred to this shooting stating that the only reason Oswald died was because Ruby got lucky with shot placement. A lady there stated that she had bought a Ruger .38 revolver as her concealed carry gun and when asked why not a compact 9mm somehow the subject of this shooting got brought up into the conversation.
The instructor was a bit of a jackass and his droning on and on and on was quite intolerable. The law said “8 hour class”. He made sure he filled those 8 hours.

Click to expand...

There was an article on the LHO shooting in a magazine called Texas Monthly and it also included pictures of the clothing Oswald had been wearing, in particular his formally white Tee-Shirt which was now soaked red with blood. People don't take a RN lead 38 special very serious but its a very deadly bullet and has been the death of God only knows how many people since its invention. My uncle used a 38 Special RN lead in his duty gun to kill one man while on patrol in Ft Worth Tx. He stated that the bullet that ranged down from the shoulder down through the body tore up everything in its path. Just about like what you see in the Oswald autopsy report.

Ayoob actually did a review on the Beretta Nano and praised the guns ability to do just this. He actually performed test for this use. I will try and find the article somewhere in my files.

I’ve been to two confirmed contact shootings by handguns over the years, one a side shot to the abdomen and one a chest shot through the lung on the opposite side of the heart. The entrance wounds were pretty ragged and filled with bits of unburned powder flakes and some clothing fibers. Even if they lived I’ll bet infections would have been nasty.

There was what looked like exhaled blood that spattered outward, I’ll guess the gasses expanded in the body cavity and then some sort of blew back out the entrance wound bringing blood drops with it. These both bled a lot, I wasn’t at the autopsies but I’ll guess the gas tore up tissues in the brief instant it was in there. This tearing causing a lot of small vessel bleeding until the heart stopped.



This is slow mo footage of underwater shots, you can imagine the gas bubble injected into a body with a contact shot.

The bullets did what bullets do; penetrated and caused (ultimately fatal) damage to everything they touched. The chest was a through and through, I don’t recall offhand if the side shot exited.

One of the drills I taught for dignitary protection details in crowds was a contact shot with a suspect using our Glocks. (The idea being an incapacitated suspect while trying to best control the trajectory of a fired bullet that won’t miss but may exit.) After the draw, the gun hand drives the muzzle into the body of the suspect while the off hand presses against the rear of the slide to hold it in place. A shot is fired, the shooter then steps back and aside (off-line) quickly, racks the slide with an overhand hold and readies for a second shot while assessing the reaction to the first and other potential threats.

Despite what some may think, there is almost no recoil force transferred to the palm of the off hand holding the slide in place and absolutely zero pain. (This only works with guns having no external hammer, as the hammer won’t be able to move if your hand is pressing against at it to hold the slide in place. )

Stay safe.

People often confuse contact distance with point blank range. There is a huge difference.

One must remember, contact distance gunfire allows the bullet to be a maximum velocity when it contacts a target. Add to the circumstance that there is a ton of heat and debris coming out of the barrel of the firearm at roughly the same velocity and you have a much more grievous wound every time.

Good reading here.

Sounds like someone needs to make a couple of "meat targets."

chicharrones said:

A revolver also has something akin to a gas port safety due to the cylinder gap at the forcing cone of the barrel.

Click to expand...

The video @Riomouse911 posted pretty well makes your point at 05:56.

"As the story goes, a police SWAT team reportedly contacted Smith & Wesson to discuss the need to arm the lead penetrator who carries the ballistic shield during tactical operations with a revolver instead of a semi-automatic pistol. The rationale behind this request was to provide a handgun to certain SWAT personnel that would not jam or malfunction, especially if the firearm made contact with the ballistic shield or any other obstruction when it was fired. In response, the Smith & Wesson Performance Center developed the Model 327 Tactical Rail Revolver in .357 Magnum with an eight-shot capacity."

https://www.policemag.com/339936/smith-wesson-327-trr8-revolver

sgt127 said:

I got curious so, I looked up the autopsy report.

That .38 Special tore up almost every vital organ in his body!!

Click to expand...

Sheesh. That's as mortal as mortal wounds get.

An awful lot of people were killed by .32 caliber bullets back in the day. Pretty weak powder charges pushing them, too. Seeing in person what happens when someone puts their finger next to the cylinder/barrel gap on a .38 Spl gun was pretty impressive, in a grisly sort of way. That guy had been shooting his whole life and somehow put his finger up next to the gap and it wasn't pretty.