Up and coming Wildcats

Jim Watson said:

Even wilder was the 1980s fad of nice Mauser sporters - preferably 1909 with the commercial style floor plate latch - in .280 Remington. Saving magazine and bolt face work. Part of the legend was "as good as a 7mm Magnum with bullets up to 150 grains." Especially when shot with reformed Winchester brand .270 brass, which was thinner to hold more powder and harder to not show "pressure signs" as early in the overloading scheme.

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Jim, I fell into this fad and it was at the time when the gunsmiths began using the steep shoulders. I bought a 25-06 Mashburn with a 30 degree shoulder and load data was furnished with the rifle. I thought nothing about flattened primers and short case life and wasn't smart enough to reduce the powder charges. A case would only last about three rounds and when I sized cases about every third case would have a split neck or a hole burned in the neck. I was a Jack O'Connor fan and believed in dumping in a stiff charge of military surplus 4831. Safety in reloading was never discussed. Later Remington came out with the standard 25-06 and I had a new barrel put on the rifle with the standard chamber. I liked it a whole lot better. I know all about this "overloading scheme" and it was pushed by the gunsmiths.

Jim Watson said:

Even wilder was the 1980s fad of nice Mauser sporters - preferably 1909 with the commercial style floor plate latch - in .280 Remington. Saving magazine and bolt face work. Part of the legend was "as good as a 7mm Magnum with bullets up to 150 grains." Especially when shot with reformed Winchester brand .270 brass, which was thinner to hold more powder and harder to not show "pressure signs" as early in the overloading scheme.

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You mean like this, but mine is 7x57AI I can run it nice and long.

Maybe 2021 is the year I convert one of my model seven rifles to 7mm BR.

CRM284 said:

You want to sell that rifle to me right Troy? lol

This build I’m doing is going to be a a Savage action. I’m leaning towards the 6mmGT because I can do it in a short action and not hurt it’s potential because of mag length. If I’d go 257 Bob AI I’d have to go long action. But in my mind and having some foresight I’m thinking I should do a long action even if I chamber this build in the GT. Simply because if I burn out the barrel and decide to go a different direction, I’m not limited to that short action. So now that a rambled for a bit lol, if I could afford it, I’d say screw the Savage action and get a Mausenfield. I love Mausers and 03’s and would love to have that 7x57ai ya got there. Gorgeous gun. And no, I would not rechamber or rebarrel. 7x57ai in a Mauser would compliment my 280ai 03 Springfield just fine

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Not for sale lol, it's a pretty special rifle. John van Patten built it for me( my 13th birthday) before he passed away, it was his last rifle. John was a pretty well known gun Smith in Milford PA, he worked with p.o.ackley at the collage and later was his shop Forman until he started his own business.

John was a very good machinist he made many of the first reamers for ackey, this file was cut from the very first 7x57ai reamer made. The gun will hold 1/4 moa with a good rest and load, it's got a #2 Douglas air gauged barrel.

John did nice work reboring barrels as well, I had a very nice 03 Springfield he rebored for me. It was in 358 Norma mag, was for a elk hunt me and my dad had planned but my parents got divorced and we never went. Wish I still had that one.

jmorris said:

Maybe 2021 is the year I convert one of my model seven rifles to 7mm BR.

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My ss 700 I had was a 7-08 my dad set back and cut in to a 7BR, it shot very good and I killed a few deer with it just fine.

CRM284 said:

Milford is up around the Jersey NY PA border isn’t it? I head through that area going to Connecticut. I live in central Pa bear State College.
I was kidding about the Mauser being for sale. But figured hey, it’s worth a shot lol

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Yup right there, I live a few miles on the N.Y. Side.

CRM284 said:

You want to sell that rifle to me right Troy? lol

This build I’m doing is going to be a a Savage action. I’m leaning towards the 6mmGT because I can do it in a short action and not hurt it’s potential because of mag length. If I’d go 257 Bob AI I’d have to go long action. But in my mind and having some foresight I’m thinking I should do a long action even if I chamber this build in the GT. Simply because if I burn out the barrel and decide to go a different direction, I’m not limited to that short action. So now that a rambled for a bit lol, if I could afford it, I’d say screw the Savage action and get a Mausenfield. I love Mausers and 03’s and would love to have that 7x57ai ya got there. Gorgeous gun. And no, I would not rechamber or rebarrel. 7x57ai in a Mauser would compliment my 280ai 03 Springfield just fine

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Have you checked out the big horns?

The 6mmCHeetah hardly qualifies as an "Up and Coming" wildcat, as it appeared about 20 years ago and I've been experimenting with it on-and-off nearly as long. The CHeetah series of cartridges (.22, 6mm & 6.5) represent about the max performance, both velocity and accuracy, that you can get from the .308 Win case. Which makes it worthwhile because of the always available and easy to work with brass. This test rifle was made by simply rechambering a Rem M-700 Varmint .243.

Offfhand said:

The 6mmCHeetah hardly qualifies as an "Up and Coming" wildcat, as it appeared about 20 years ago and I've been experimenting with it on-and-off nearly as long. The CHeetah series of cartridges (.22, 6mm & 6.5) represent about the max performance, both velocity and accuracy, that you can get from the .308 Win case. Which makes it worthwhile because of the always available and easy to work with brass. This test rifle was made by simply rechambering a Rem M-700 Varmint .243.View attachment 967946 View attachment 967947 View attachment 967948 View attachment 967949

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What kind of velocity are you getting with which bullets?

Looks like an interesting cartridge. I like working with plentiful legacy brass.

brasscollector said:

6.5-06 Have one and love it. Got a 27" barrel and it easily spits out 140s @ 3000fps +

I think my next one is going to be a 22-250 AI with a 1:7" or 1:8" twist

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I also love my 6.5-06, it's one of my favorite rifles.

You might want to look at doing a 22 Creedmoor instead of the 22-250 AI. It has just a tad bit more performance, and you don't need to fire form the cases. I'm running a 1-8 twist on mine.

6.5-06


22 Creedmoor

Offfhand said:

The 6mmCHeetah hardly qualifies as an "Up and Coming" wildcat, as it appeared about 20 years ago and I've been experimenting with it on-and-off nearly as long. The CHeetah series of cartridges (.22, 6mm & 6.5) represent about the max performance, both velocity and accuracy, that you can get from the .308 Win case. Which makes it worthwhile because of the always available and easy to work with brass. This test rifle was made by simply rechambering a Rem M-700 Varmint .243.View attachment 967946 View attachment 967947 View attachment 967948 View attachment 967949

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Absolutely beautiful. I wish I was your neighbor, lol.

Another interesting and worthwhile wildcat is the 6.5 CHeetah. Like other members of the CHeetah family it is based on the .308 Win case, and like other CHeetas (.22.6mm & 6.5) the proposition is simply to get maximum performance from the cheap and easily available brass. A similar round is the .260 Rem Ack-Imp but the Cheetah has greater powder capacity by having the shoulder moved forward. Which also means that unlike the .260 AI, factory ammo cannot be safely fired in the 6.5 CH. (CH being Carmichael-Huntington, developers of the CHeetah series.) Loading dies and reamers are available with specialty gunsmiths doing simple conversions by rechambering existing .260 caliber rifles. This test rifle was made by putting a new barrel on Rem. 40-X rifle. The wire in the pics are attached to a strain gauge for recording pressures and velocities simultaneously I've used .308. .243 and .260 brass, all working well with one-step necking and fireforming operations, but .260 Lapua is probably best. Other than adding zip to any 6.5 (.264" dia) bullets, most impressive for long range hunting and target shooting have been 140-142 gr Berger and Sierras which, clocking at 3000 fps, are in the neighborhood of. 6.5/284, and even .264 Win mag numbers..

I've always been intrigued by the 22 CHeetah. I never pursued it though, not the least of reasons being the need to have a barrel manufacture on speed dial.

I never knew about the 6 and 6.5 variants. Is there also a 7mm CHeetah?

6x45 in a .308 length action would be pretty fun. Get a twist suitable for the heavies and use the .308 lengt action to seat them long.

Crosshair said:

6x45 in a .308 length action would be pretty fun. Get a twist suitable for the heavies and use the .308 lengt action to seat them long.

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Definitely. And modified to be a single-shot. Bees knees.

redneck2 said:

Maybe a 6br. It will run to 1k and doesn’t eat barrels so bad. And, it’s obviously accurate

I don’t understand why it doesn’t get more love

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6BR should get love, especially during a panic when components are difficult to obtain. It needs less than 30 grains of powder to get 1000 yard performance, and is so easy to tune for accuracy.

Bump up to the 6GT or 6X47 Lapua if you need a little more performance but still want efficiency.

Nature Boy said:

I've always been intrigued by the 22 CHeetah. I never pursued it though, not the least of reasons being the need to have a barrel manufacture on speed dial.
I never knew about the 6 and 6.5 variants. Is there also a 7mm CHeetah?

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The .22 CHeetah is my favorite wildcat cartridge. Its performance is so spectacular, both velocitywise and accurracywise I'm surprised it has never been offered by a mainstream gunmaker. I learned about it by accident at a big gunshop in Salt Lake. They had several on sale they had made by rechambering Weatherby ,224 Wby Mag rifles, and matching ammo they loaded themselves. I was so intrigued by the concept that I picked out the rifles with prettiest stock and bought all their loaded ammo, which was only about 150 rounds as I remember. I was so impressed by the cartridge that a couple years later I had Ed Shilen build another CHeetah with a heavier barrel on his DGA action and Shilen stock. Which I still have and shoot quite often. The first ammo was made on Remington BR brass with small primer, but I later used brass with standard large primer and I can't see any difference in accuracy, at least not when only shooting varmints. Attached pic is Shilen rifle with .22 CHeetah compared to .22/250 Rem round.

In my youth (A curious condition that has persisted well over a half century.) I was fascinated by magazine articles and other rumors about "up and coming" wildcat cartridges. Everyone one of which was claimed to zip through the atmosphere like greased lightening, deliver the striking power of Zeus's thunderbolts and possess needle-threading accuracy. Those were innocent times, now fondly recalled by the cognoscenti as the Golder Age of Wildcatting. Which abruptly ended with the availability of affordable chronographs. I was particularly enchanted by sub-caliber wildcats, with anything smaller that .22 capturing my attention and pocketbook. I even tried .14 caliber, which was an interesting novelty but quickly gave up on it as not worth the effort. (As anyone will tell you who has tried to find .14 caliber bullets or cleaning rod.) So for a while I then concentrated on .17 caliber wildcats, beginning with a rather cute little rifle with a three groove barrel made by P.O. Ackley, which momentarily dulled my enthusiasm for the .17. After recovering from the Ackley barrel experience, I cycled thru other.17's like Vern O'Brian's .17 Mach IV (Forerunner of today's today's .17 Fireball.) discovering along the way that the.17's notorious bore fouling could be largely eliminated by using better barrels, such as then made by the A&M Rifle Works and a couple others. Which encouraged me to have more.17 Wildcats built, including the three shown here, from top: .17 Javalina with A&M barrel, ..17/223 with Shilen barrel and .17/222 RemMag with Douglas barrel. All are delightfully accurate and fun to mess with but were instant has-beens with appearance of Remington's factory ready .17. So none can be declared "up and coming" except perhaps the .17/223 because it is simple to form, requires no barrel wasting fire-forming and brass can be found everywhere. The lineup are .17 Javalina, .17/223 , .17 222RemMag and .17 Remington on right.

Am vaguely considerin' a 6.5x55 AI conversion.

... like another hole in the head.




GR

Garandimal said:

Am vaguely considerin' a 6.5x55 AI conversion.

... like another hole in the head.




GR

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I think it was Bob Jourdan who did a short series of articles in Precision Shooting (I’ll have to dig out my articles) on the 6.5 X 55 Improved. Cool round.

I'm holding out for the .225 Winchester comeback.