"I Feel Comfortable with..."

I did a training class for a day and it was a humbling experience. It wasn’t tactical or law enforcement, but some basic move and shoot like perhaps if you had 1 or 2 home invaders.
The difference was enormous when we walked through the course in quiet and well lit conditions (it was at an indoor range) and then when we walked through it under duress (poor and flashing lights, noise, sirens, instructor yelling and tapping your shoulder). We were using Walther full size PPQs. Under duress all of our accuracy (3 to 5 yards) went completely in the toilet. All of us. I’ve been in the military (no combat but in a combat MOS) so I thought it wouldn’t be a problem. Wrong.

As Oscar Wilde said, "Quotation is a serviceable substitute for wit"

“A weapon is a tool," she repeated, a little breathlessly. "A tool for killing and destroying. And there will be times when, as an Envoy, you must kill and destroy. Then you will choose and equip yourself with the tools that you need. But remember the weakness of weapons. They are an extension--you are the killer and destroyer. You are whole, with or without them.” -Virginia Vadodara in Altered Carbon by Richard K Morgan.

"When your mind is a weapon, you are never unarmed" - Malcolm X

"Luck favors the prepared" -Louis Pasteur

The above sort of sums up my mind-set for self defense and pretty much the rest of my life too. I try to have the tools at hand that I might need but on more than one occasion I have had to improvise and ones ability to have the knowledge and ability to think, react, and use that knowledge in a difficult situations is IMHO a far more valuable thing than having the perfect tools for the situation. I will take a capable mind over a capable weapon if I have to choose one or the other. I have striven to have a capable mind and when possible the right tools for the job, but the mind is the more important one.

WrongHanded said:

It seems like you're doing the same.

I tell you what, if I were going to spend hundreds of dollars getting training to improve my ability to effectively respond to a life threatening situation, it would be with a Wilderness EMT course before a defensive pistol course.

Your questions are all very leading. They're leading in the direction of how if I don't do what you do, I'm not well enough prepared. But I'll answer them anyway.[...]

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While it's not this way every single year I live in one of the few places in the lower 48 where there are more fatal Grizzly attacks than homicides! If you carry gun here that doesn't begin and end with 4 it better be because you carry something bigger! And while I think pistol courses can be fun and useful, a Wilderness EMT course would be a lot more useful. Walter-Mitty fantasies aside I will have and already have had more need of first aid than pistol skills. But of course while the reality is that more lives would be saved each year by halving one's red meat consumption than taking more pistol classes I realize this is a gun forum, so here all the problems considered are the ones that are solved by using/not-using a firearm. Better take another gun class!

WrongHanded said:

Sure. Anything less than what you feel is adequate isn't good enough. But any scenario you haven't planned for is, predictably, ridiculous. It just isn't possible that you'd get shot in a violent encounter, because you don't wear body armor. It just isn't possible that you'd need N+1 rounds of ammo in your gun, because you carry N.

What is the purpose of this thread? You bring a different flavor of this same topic up every month or so. I thought maybe this time was different, and you were actually trying to understand the mindset and situation of others that carry "less" than you do. But it looks like that's not the case.

Are you trying to help people understand their short comings, or lord your superiority over them?

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You've neatly summarized the moderation style of THR! One could think it's the pandemic getting to folks but it's been this way for at least the 8 years I've been here and probably longer.

Phaedrus/69 said:

You've neatly summarized the moderation style of THR! One could think it's the pandemic getting to folks but it's been this way for at least the 8 years I've been here and probably longer.

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Umm much like violent crime it happened before the internet and social media.

Kleanbore said:

Does that help?

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I think you should create a sticky.

When I say "feel comfortable" means I understand the tools at my disposal and the situations I've encountered. Everyone has a daily routine and work environment. Some can open carry all day long with a belt full of extra mags. Other people can't even carry at work. Still others work in a mixed environment. While slinging a Barrett over your shoulder with a backpack full of ammo before heading to work and shopping might be the best option, everything is a compromise. Some people might mean comfortable in that they might be afraid of something larger or don't want to spend the money. I've always advocated for people to be comfortable with what they carry and how they expect to deploy it. Situational awareness trumps all else, even if the most you can carry is a pencil.

Kleanbore said:

Why do you continue here?

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It might surprise you to learn this but most folks frequent forums because they value the interaction with the other members, not for the brilliance of the mods. NFL team owners seem to forget this, too, sometimes thinking they're why people watch sports rather than than the players. True, someone has to own and manage the team but rest assured that no one outside their families tune in to hear about them. In a way THR is a charming fossil hearkening back to the earliest days of the net. The most amusing aspect is the archaic practice of responding with quotes broken down by sentences or even sentence fragments to allow one to refute every. single. word. Pure 2001 gold! I've served as Admin and Moderator at forums going back to the earliest days of the public internet, mostly regarding consumer audio electronics and acoustics, so I find the evolution of social media interesting. This site is like a Coelacanth, blissfully swimming around unchanged for sixty million years as the life forms around it change and adapt. That's oddly comforting in a way. Like McDonald's it's no one's favorite approach but it works well enough for everyone to just shrug and pull up to the drive-through.

So it's more of an observation than a criticism. The moderation here has always been heavy-handed and authoritarian [and pedantic in a way I actually kind of admire] but quite consistent over the years. Forums are kind of a "fossil internet" nowadays and it seems to be just a particular kind of netizen that still favors this format vs Facebook, Tik Tok, etc. We're used to this format and prefer it for whatever reason. The moderation here is inflexible and rigid but again, those of us who've stuck around are used to it. Again, having moderated forums for a couple of decades I understand the challenges better than most. You can't make everyone happy so I understand the decision not to even try. Since the staff seems to prefer this approach and has never seemed very interested in growth or user feedback I've never mentioned it before, but since you asked specifically I'm answering your query.

Jeff White said:

Training and experience is what makes me feel comfortable. Tools available don't really figure into it because I know that every fight except the one I initiate is a come as you are event. I'm retired now and the chances of me initiating a contact are pretty close to zero.

Situational awareness, years of experience observing people in stressful situations has given me a good ability to judge when a situation is about to go south. I've got nothing to prove to myself or anyone else at my age, I'm not afraid what others might think of me if I disengage or change my route to avoid a potentially bad situation.

Your mind is the weapon...........................

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Absolutely spot one and one of the best posts I’ve ever read here on THR (and I was a long time lurker before joining). Thank you Jeff.

Kleanbore said:

I strongly recommend training--real defensive training, and not shooting slowly at a square range.

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Just make sure you know what kind of "training" you're buying. The tacticool operator types are all over, with courses that range from "questionable even if you have a badge" to "outright BS." That stuff is, in my opinion, much worse than no "training" at all.

I think it means they are good - and aren't interested in anyone else's views or opinion about it.

An interesting topic and one that got me to thinking without really having to think about it, if that makes sense. Even before I began my firearms collecting journey/hobby last year I felt comfortable in the sense that I was at ease with my situational awareness under normal every day circumstances. Life's lessons plus the fact that I've lived in and travelled through many far and away places where normal every day circumstances don't necessarily mean that they are normal on this side of the pond has taught me that. I've been in situations that called for a calm, cool and collected head without having any sort of weapon nearby other than the orb that sits between my shoulders to fall back on and each time I was able to dis-engage from said situations relatively unscathed. Now that I've begun collecting again, taken instructional hands-on training, getting out there at the range and practicing-practicing-practicing I believe that I've only added to my personal comfort level. I'm not a hero nor do I pretend that I ever will be. I carry with me on a daily basis that with which I am comfortable and that gives me an ADDED sense of comfort I reckon.

Preconceived notions and confirmation bias can be two sides of the same coin, or 2 sides of 6 (or more) sides of dice. Pick your favorite metaphor.

The "mindset, skillset, toolset" baseline has been a good part of a solid foundation for a while. Personally, I like to add "awareness" up front, making it "awareness, mindset, skillset, toolset", because if you can't get past the first step in the OODA Loop, the rest might become a moot point. I'm sure many of us can think of at least 1 example of someone who could effortlessly and perfectly run through training, qual and practice scenario drills ... but who was often demonstrably oblivious outside the training environment, as they bumbled about in the real world.

Well, it certainly wouldn't hurt to have at least a minimal, cursory working familiarity with how laws work regarding self defense, too. A little up-front work might save a lot of "if only I'd known" self-flagellation afterward. Forewarned being forearmed, etc.

Back to the comfortable thread topic, though ...

Like many other things in life, there are degrees of being comfortable.

You talk to a lot of experienced cops and firearm trainers, and you might begin to see some amount of overlap in the unsurprising virtual Venn Diagram of opinions and experiences. Once you get past the varying discussions of tactics, training sufficiency and "gear", it's not uncommon to find that a defensive handgun that has 5-9rds of initial on-board ammunition capacity can become a bit of common ground. You can narrow it down even further, dividing up the proponents into groups of those who think 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9rds is marginally adequate for off-duty or non-working scenarios.

Well, unless someone else is making the choice for you (policy and/or restriction), you can think about it and make the best informed decisions possible for yourself. Then, hope your anticipation conforms to whatever exigent circumstances may come looking for you.

In the back of my mind are a couple of niggling little thoughts.

First, I wonder if I'll become aware of a problem in time to act upon it.

Second, if it's a gun problem, and I can get my gun into action ... will I run out of time before I run out of ammunition?

Comfortable? Where does that come into play with real world results?

Confidence? Maybe, but will it actually matter?

This is the 50th year that I've invested into the pursuit and practice of various martial arts. I have some confidence that I have the skills, experience and the experiential knowledge to use my skills in an effective manner ... providing I have the time, opportunity and the ability to fully use those skills to optimal effect, before running out of time.

From the "capacity meets threats" perspective ...

While I used to have the electrified grasshopper speed of youth, I'm also stronger now than when I was younger (approx 40lbs lighter and whippet thin and wiry, like Bruce Lee, for an image), with denser bone structure and heavier muscle ... but ... the normal aging process has caused a slowing, and then there's all those previous injuries, surgeries and recovering from various illnesses. I like to think I can offset the disadvantages of aging with the advantages of increased knowledge, skills, ongoing training/practice and experience. Might be wishful thinking. Might be realistic. It would be fantastic not to be forced to discover the answer outside of training. Training can cause pain and the aggravation of old injuries and conditions well enough on its own.

My point? Well, while I used to be willing and able to demonstrate I could take on a couple of shodans or nidans and show them I was faster and able to handle them at the same time, I suspect that sort of speed might be behind me. I know it would hurt more nowadays.

I'd have the confidence of still being able to draw upon my training and experience, but that isn't the same thing as being comfortable that I believed I could make it work out how I'd wish.

I just edited my post to add some thoughts at the end.

Until recently, the last few months, I have felt confident with my G26 with 12rd mag and a spare 12rd mag.

With the way the communists in this country are expanding and what they are getting away with, I am getting ready to switch over to my G17 with two extra mags.

Good Ol' Boy said:

With the way the communists in this country are expanding and what they are getting away with, I am getting ready to switch over to my G17 with two extra mags.

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Speaking to the issue of situational awareness, training and firearms retention skills:
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=311690&ec=1&ch=twitter
Note the fourth paragraph, where a gentleman was relieved of his firearm by the mob.

Kleanbore said:

I started out by carrying a Model 642 in a pocket holster, and I thought it was fine. It was not until I realized that I could not begin to perform most of the drills in a couple of defensive training courses that I switched to something else fo primary carry.

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If you were unable to complete a different set of drills with your current gun, would you then consider it inadequate as well?

.38 Special said:

If you were unable to complete a different set of drills with your current gun, would you then consider it inadequate as well?

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That’s a darn good question as the goalposts of what is ‘adequate’ just keep changing.

Adequate for what? A class where everything is geared towards speed and high round counts? Or everyday life where you live? Or based on what you shoot best, not what an instructor thinks you should shoot?

The hot ticket today is Kydex holsters, Appendix carry, high capacity guns, speed drills at close range. In five years it will be something different.

Kleanbore said:

Standard drills reflecting typical real encounters? Of course.

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A typical real encounter does not actually involve any shots being fired. And of those encounters which do, the average number of shots fired is less than five. It appears that you have been training for an extremely atypical scenario.

I always saw drills as ways to become proficient with you firearms. They are training you do to make manipulation your weapon second nature. You are not going to execute training drill #XX in a particular self defense situation. You are going to do what it take to survive and escape and not have to think about how to manipulate your weapon if you need to use it.

An analogy, if you're good at touch typing you do not have to look at your keyboard to type. You simply think about words and phrases and your finger put the words on the screen for you without you conscious thinking about the individual letters/keystrokes. Your conscious brain is free to form sentences and paragraphs and your subconscious is turning that into motor action to type the individual letters.

Good shooting drills should allow you to build up a similar set of second nature skills that require little or no conscious effort. This is important so that your higher brain functions are free to be focused on taking in the situation, finding a way to get you out of the situation, and determining if you need to use your weapon as part of that. The actual weapon manipulation should happen almost entirely at the subconscious level once you have made the conscious decision it is needed.

Never been in a real gun fight (thanks goodness) to try this but I have shot enough practical shooting matches to know what it feels like when everything is working right and the training and practice have all come together. When its going really good it almost feels like playing a third-person perspective computer game watching someone else do what you direct. You're thinking about target engagement order, when your going to reload, were you need to be standing for the next target array and the draw, the shooting, reloading etc are all happening on auto-pilot without you thinking about it. And when things are really working well you have enough spare brain power to realize it and observe it.