open carry for blackpowder revolvers ?

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candymancan

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So just curious if you guys actually open carry these for self defense in public. Ive seen quite a few threads here and google on conceal carry but i dont conceal and i wouldnt with bp revolvers this large.

I dont have many firearms.. just a 1911. And two 1851 navy in 44 cal. I live in virginia. Open carry is legal pretty much anywhere in this state minus events or certain places. Store must have signs saying no firearms. If not a policy they may have from coporate means nothing.. etc

Since i have only a 1911 and 1851 navy.. I open carry. My 1911 is too large to conceal to be honest. And im a bigger guy its rather uncomfortable to shove a near 3 lbs gun in my pants.

Anyway.. Ive shot few thousand rounds in my 1911 so far. Ive found it to be ok but not as accurate as my 1851 navy.. at least at 10 yards. Anything beyond and i hsve to aim at the ground to hit the target due to them needing to be aimed lower.

Anyway. Both if 1851 are reliable.. uve shot 500 rounds through both and they only become gummed up after 10 or 12 shots and then they need a quick wiping and relube which takes 15 secinds. And there good.

I have spare cylinder and pouches for em.. timing myself ti take the wedge barrel and swaping a cylinder took 8 seconds. My 1911 took 3. Big difference of course.

Anyway im blabbering.. ive open carried both.. in cross draw many times now. Not for attention but because well i feel pretty safe with these big 44cal revolvers on me. I have had more attention with them.. most people just want to know what they are.. Everyone thinks they are 357 magnuns.

With my 1911.. I dont think anyone even notices me.

What are your opinions ? Normally where i live.. i feel safe to not need anything.. lived here for 30 years.. but the last 2 years.. weve had huge uptake in crime.. murders and robberies. Just the last 2 weeks weve had 4 murders here.. which is unheard of.

So thats why i carry and thats why im a new gun owner. Thanks for your thoughts
 
I think the style and swag would be through the roof. ! Talk about a sharp dressed man. I don't think I would do it, but I wouldn't say don't. In today's Glock world, packing a medium sized revolver might show more style than a plastic fantastic pistol, I think you need a third pistol, a nice S&W .38 or .357 or something.
 
The following is just my personal opinion. I'll preface by saying a .44 is perfectly capable of saving your bacon should the need ever arise (and a great many people have used just such a gun to do it over the years) and if you feel they are reliable, who am I to tell you not to carry them? They're my favorite guns too, so I completely understand the desire to do so.

That said, I'll make a quick point about reliability anyway, even though you say they're reliable. After 500+ rounds, I imagine you've run into most of the things that can go wrong with those '51s. And there are a lot of those things. Many of the pieces are fragile and can break unexpectedly (definitely not something I'd want to have happen to me if I was counting on it for my life). If you're familiar enough with those issues to be comfortable detecting them before they become critical, maybe not the biggest issue. If you haven't run into any of those things, I would highly recommend against carrying them for that reason alone, even besides all the possible issues with the gun gumming up/jamming/reload considerations, etc.

You already mentioned the main reason I would never, ever open carry one of those things anywhere, except maybe if I was hiking or something, right here:

candymancan said:
I have had more attention with them.. most people just want to know what they are..
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I'm not a fan of open carry in the first place, because when it comes to potentially having to defend yourself, I don't think it's wise to signal to hypothetical ne'er-do-wells around that you are going to be a threat to them. The fact that it's drawing so much attention that people are asking you about them would be a red flag to me that, everywhere I go, I'm the first one in the room to be noticed. You might be inadvertently increasing the risk that you'll have to use those six guns by advertising them for everyone to see.

And I get it. I love old guns. I don't care for newfangled contraptions like semi-auto pistols and ARs and the like, most of my fun money goes to these reproductions and I enjoy shooting them a lot more than anything else. But when it comes to my life, there's no chance I would seriously consider carrying one myself.

If you feel more comfortable with a revolver (as I do), there are just better options in this day and age. There are plenty of easily concealable Smiths out there, and if you're set on a single action (completely understandable), Ruger makes some good ones that will give you a better chance and can theoretically be concealed if that's something you're interested in. There are holsters that ride pretty high on your belt, being concealable with a vest or a jacket or something of that sort.

Ultimately it's your choice. I'm a big believer in using what you're most comfortable with, because at the end of the day, nothing else improves your odds more than that. Just make that choice a careful and informed one. :thumbup:
 
If you live in the Old West, it would almost make sense, but we abandoned BP pretty fast when reliable cartridge revolvers came about. I love my 1851 Navy, but I would carry it if EVERYTHING else was gone. But, if you absolutely must, I would advise to dress in period clothes, and carry BOTH, one cross draw, so when one has a cap jam, you have the other to draw.
 
candymancan said:
What are your opinions ? Normally where i live.. i feel safe to not need anything.. lived here for 30 years.. but the last 2 years.. weve had huge uptake in crime.. murders and robberies. Just the last 2 weeks weve had 4 murders here.. which is unheard of.

So thats why i carry and thats why im a new gun owner. Thanks for your thoughts
Click to expand...

Welcome to the THR black powder forum candymancan.
I like your thinking because you've become a genuine black powder advocate.
Many folks here have advised to carry the gun that they're the most comfortable and proficient with.
Folks have also advised to make sure that the loads are not affected by moisture if loaded for a longer period of time.
There's ways to make both ends of the cylinder relatively moisture proof.
As long as your carry condition is safe, then I'm glad that you've found a gun that's more fun for you to carry.
Keep up the good work. :)
 
Maybe look into conversion cylinders as well. I’m a 1911 and .45 ACP fan though. I feel both my Ruger and Pietta NMA are both extremely reliable (never had cap jams and it’s been reliable when I switched to Rem #10’s, but I’d never choose either over a 1911.

What loads are you carrying in your .44’s?
 
I carry .457 balls. With sheutszen (spelling german 3f powder) and i load 30 grains. Shave a really good ring off.. i use black gold wax like stuff to seal it even nore.. but its so well sealed with .457 i dont think i need it. I havent sealed my caps.. but i use the german 1075 capa. Theyre #11 equivalent. But they seem to stay on the nipples fine. I load 5 outa 6. The 6th even with the hammer on the pin. I dont feel safe.

Ive studied the hammer and pin thing. By lifting the hammer slightly just so slightly and the cylinder can spin. Put it in the holster.. lifted hammer just slightly grabbed the holster and twisted a little and cylinder moved.

So yea i dont trust it. Uve even felt the hammer move once when i reholstered them in public after i took em outa my glove bix. ( in va you gatta secure then in a unlocked campartment.. like arm rest. Glove box. Even a duffle bag doesnt matter. If you dont have a ccw. Which i dont have.

So yea 5/6 is just safer in my opinion.

As for breaking oarts.. yes my 1851 steel navy broke a trigger spring after only 50 rounds. Pissed me off. So yes i do hear you on parts reliability.

As for moisture... i actually shoot em once a week or two so im not too concerned with powder going bad specially using the black gold wax and 457 balls. Also one is steel one is brass. The brass one i modified a little by filing the end of the arbor or cylinder pin. And the point with the two pins on the frame. The cylinder gap was so large between the cone of the barrel and cylinder i noticed lots of gas/flames/ smoke shooting out when i fired. And i also noticed the cylinder sble to bang foward and back.. i dont want it to peen down the brass ring in the frame. And i also dont want to lose so much pressure from the powder igniting out th3 cylinder gap thus lowering thr velocity of the round.

Now its got a perfect gap.. doesnt bind when cocking the hammer. And also doesnt allow the cylinder to move back and foward.. took it to the range and it shot 26 times before i had the cylinder gumming up rotating

Here isa pic on how i carry them. One butt foward one standard.

I wont lie the 1911 is way more reliable.. i can fire boxes of rounds very quuckly.. done it.. i have 3 mags.. two ona mag pouch and one in the gun cocked and locked.. could deff get lead out much faster in self defense. And yes it draws less attention.

But i wont lie the 1851s have steered some shady fellows in hoodies in gas stations and other stores out quickly when they saw it.

I dunno i just like the navys better.. i guess i should just carry both .. maybe 1911 some days and the navys other.

Just really addicted to powder. Theyre beautiful.. love the sound. And just way more accurate that my 1911. I dont know why the 1911 shoots like it does.. but it shoots in random patterns.. still in the black center.. but spread out. The navy.. i litterally put holes in my holes.. and i always seem to get in the 0 or 9 on a chart.. meaning bullseye or one line out
 

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Funny you say that. I had a few people at the range who said the same thing when they saw my targets and how tight the patterns were and noticed i had TWO of the revolvers lol.

I guess the 191q is just the smarter choice. More reliable. 9 rounds. Faster reload. Less attention.

I just think i shoot better with the 1851. Im also shooting them one handed.. and still doing better than the 1911.
 
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Number 1, I don't open carry for self defense, but conceal carry. No reason to give the bad guy the first person to shoot - me. I have 8 BP handguns and the reason is it's one of my hobbies. They're fun to shoot. But that's where it stops. To protect myself or loved ones I take every advantage possible. That's a 12 or 13 shot 9MM that's light enough to carry and small enough to conceal if necessary.
My BP guns are no more accurate than my modern guns. Shoot your 1911 as much and see if they're not the same. Besides, we're talking man size targets, not the bullseye matches I use to shoot off hand at 25 and 50yds. There a 1/10 of a inch meant the difference between wining and loosing.
 
I don’t carry my ‘51 navy, it’s is a hobby and a fun gun to shoot. I don’t open carry except when I go to the desert.
 
Armored farmer said:
I really enjoy my '58s, and carry my 5½" sheriff's model when scouting or trailcamming or just plain woods bumming.
If I'm hiking or serious about self defense, it's my normal ccw 9mm.
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"Woods Bumming"! I forgot about that term. I shall add it to my vocabulary. Thanks Farmer! Anyhow, when just plain woods bumming I'll almost always carry a Cap-n-Ball, or my Plains-Pistol as long as I have a good rifle or shotgun (ML or Modern) or a very powerful bow. If taking a .22 rifle for my main backwoods survival tool, then I'll go modern-sidearm with a heavy caliber revolver.

In my early 20's I used to keep a '51 in Army caliber (think it was a "Yank" make-it-yourself kit) under the seat of my truck. I was poor, (but a working man) and only owned a 7.7 rifle, my Granddad's Shotgun, a "Zouave" and said revolver. Yeah, what I didn't know back then could fill a good sized barn. My first real pistol was a Ruger Super Blackhawk, and I don't know when I ever got a "real" CCW type of pistol. I used to think I was good with a big knife (legend in my own mind) and carried that. A K-bar, still have it. Yes, I was literally the guy bringing a knife to a gunfight. I may have invented the term. !!! Lucky for me, I never got into a gun fight with my knife.
 
I do carry an 1851 (in .36, to be historically correct), but I keep it concealed under an overshirt since I like to keep the element of surprise. I prefer not to have the attention of strangers directed to my weapons. I open carried once into a gas station and felt like all eyes were following me around. Not comfortable. For the desert, I open carry because it actually deters crime when bad guys have no plausible reason to approach you. In the city, it seems to invite trouble.

I see no problem with carrying a percussion gun if you can shoot accurately, make it run flawlessly, and you can live with the possibility of being outgunned. I had to dial in my loading method to ensure 95% reliability without cap jams, unexploded caps, or falling loading lever. All with maximal powder charges of Old Eynsford or Swiss. 25 grains of those powders will surpass .380 ACP and approach original loadings of .38 special with round ball, and 21 grains of powder under a 140 grain conical will neatly match .38 special, so ballistics are acceptable. Look into sealing the chambers if you plan to load for longer than a week. I use undersized caps carefully pressed on, and a 1-2 grain layer of corn meal between oversized ball and powder to act as a dessicant.
 
I will open carry my Colt Navy BP when hiking or sometimes around a campsite, but I wouldn’t even consider it in town or the city jungle; it’s like wearing a T-shirt saying “shoot me”.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
"Woods Bumming"! I forgot about that term. I shall add it to my vocabulary. Thanks Farmer! Anyhow, when just plain woods bumming I'll almost always carry a Cap-n-Ball, or my Plains-Pistol as long as I have a good rifle or shotgun (ML or Modern) or a very powerful bow. If taking a .22 rifle for my main backwoods survival tool, then I'll go modern-sidearm with a heavy caliber revolver.

In my early 20's I used to keep a '51 in Army caliber (think it was a "Yank" make-it-yourself kit) under the seat of my truck. I was poor, (but a working man) and only owned a 7.7 rifle, my Granddad's Shotgun, a "Zouave" and said revolver. Yeah, what I didn't know back then could fill a good sized barn. My first real pistol was a Ruger Super Blackhawk, and I don't know when I ever got a "real" CCW type of pistol. I used to think I was good with a big knife (legend in my own mind) and carried that. A K-bar, still have it. Yes, I was literally the guy bringing a knife to a gunfight. I may have invented the term. !!! Lucky for me, I never got into a gun fight with my knife.
Click to expand...
When I was in my 20’s I very seldom lived in places where personal firearms were legal so I did the next best thing, went nearly everywhere with at least two other Marines. We were unarmed but I don’t remember being much afraid of anyone or anything...
 
gtrgy888 said:
I do carry an 1851 (in .36, to be historically correct), but I keep it concealed under an overshirt since I like to keep the element of surprise. I prefer not to have the attention of strangers directed to my weapons. I open carried once into a gas station and felt like all eyes were following me around. Not comfortable. For the desert, I open carry because it actually deters crime when bad guys have no plausible reason to approach you. In the city, it seems to invite trouble.

I see no problem with carrying a percussion gun if you can shoot accurately, make it run flawlessly, and you can live with the possibility of being outgunned. I had to dial in my loading method to ensure 95% reliability without cap jams, unexploded caps, or falling loading lever. All with maximal powder charges of Old Eynsford or Swiss. 25 grains of those powders will surpass .380 ACP and approach original loadings of .38 special with round ball, and 21 grains of powder under a 140 grain conical will neatly match .38 special, so ballistics are acceptable. Look into sealing the chambers if you plan to load for longer than a week. I use undersized caps carefully pressed on, and a 1-2 grain layer of corn meal between oversized ball and powder to act as a dessicant.
Click to expand...

Just in my experience, it's the caps that go bad before the powder will. If I keep a revolver loaded for a long period of time, just changing the caps, and running a pick/wire through the nipple and into the powder will restore reliability. But, I think caps are better than they used to be, and now seem to go off fine even after a long period of time on the nipple. ??
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Just in my experience, it's the caps that go bad before the powder will. If I keep a revolver loaded for a long period of time, just changing the caps, and running a pick/wire through the nipple and into the powder will restore reliability. But, I think caps are better than they used to be, and now seem to go off fine even after a long period of time on the nipple. ??
Click to expand...

I moved from my range being 15 mins down the road to a little over an hour so my NMA that had been loaded sat for 6 or 7 years. Loaded with 3F T7 and capped with nice fitting Rem #10’s.

Something I noticed with Rem #10’s is it seems common to find a couple that the compound fell out. Those are the only issues I’ve had with my guns not going bang each time.
 
The 8-9 rounds with 3 second Mag changes for the 1911 (I am a fan) makes for a very solid self defense gun.

I have several cap and ball revolvers and like them a lot, though I prefer the Remington 1858 and Euroarms Rogers & Spencer. They can be quite accurate. But if I shoot five cylinders without a single failure to fire, it is a surprise. In a self defense situation, a failure to fire would be a most unpleasant surprise and drop one to four shots in a cylinder.

A cartridge conversion cylinder would give you five rounds of 250 grain goodness. Not as good as the nine in a 1911, but more reliable than the five in a cap and ball cylinder. I’m not a fan of open carry and only do so out in the woods, up in the mountains etc., but full size 1911s and 7.5” barrel revolvers are not ideal for concealed carry. A full flap cavalry style holster like those made by Triple K would diminish the visibility of, and perhaps interest in, the revolver.
 
There are more things to go wrong with a cap-n-ball revolver, then the off chance of having a bad primer in a cartridge pistol. However, I do own an Uberti-Remington New Model Army in Navy caliber, and in the 30 or more years I've owned it, it has never cap-jammed or miss-fired. Some may not believe that, and that's okay. But if I had to carry a cap-n-ball, it would be that one.
 
In populated areas I never open carry anything. Too much of an invitation to trouble. In the woods I carry, well, something. Might be a 38 snub. Might be a 357 with 180 grain bear loads. Might be a modern plastic fantastic. Might be a long arm or black powder. I rarely run across random people where I go in the woods, but they always notice I am carrying and if they aren't friendly they go away quickly. After coming snoot to snoot with a big black bear while squirrel hunting, I no longer hit the woods without something bigger than a .22.

OTOH, with 30 grains of 3F in a 44 at close range self defense type shooting, if you miss your assailant you will probably at least set him on fire...
 
brewer12345 said:
In populated areas I never open carry anything. Too much of an invitation to trouble. In the woods I carry, well, something. Might be a 38 snub. Might be a 357 with 180 grain bear loads. Might be a modern plastic fantastic. Might be a long arm or black powder. I rarely run across random people where I go in the woods, but they always notice I am carrying and if they aren't friendly they go away quickly. After coming snoot to snoot with a big black bear while squirrel hunting, I no longer hit the woods without something bigger than a .22.

OTOH, with 30 grains of 3F in a 44 at close range self defense type shooting, if you miss your assailant you will probably at least set him on fire...
Click to expand...
:rofl::rofl: Yea ... if you hit him he'll be set on fire too!!!!:evil::uhoh:
 
Ugly Sauce said:
There are more things to go wrong with a cap-n-ball revolver, then the off chance of having a bad primer in a cartridge pistol. However, I do own an Uberti-Remington New Model Army in Navy caliber, and in the 30 or more years I've owned it, it has never cap-jammed or miss-fired. Some may not believe that, and that's okay. But if I had to carry a cap-n-ball, it would be that one.
Click to expand...

There's an extra point to be made here. If on the off chance something goes wrong with a cartridge pistol, you still have the next round. With a cap and ball, you may well not get the next shot, at least not easily. I was shooting my Navy just today, and had to manually extract 3 out of 18 caps, and needed the help of my second hand to move the cylinder on a good half of the shots.

And I've never had a misfire with that gun, but the '60 Army I recently bought has seen at least six misfires. Just not something I want to be a possibility if I needed to rely on my gun.
 
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