Obsolete/little used cartridges

Chuck R. said:

I've got a .350 Rem Mag, but I refuse to call it obsolete. IMHO it's still too futuristic for most shooters to have caught on.....

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I like the way you think! I absolutely love my 350s!

What are the details on the rifle in the picture!

I load for 44-40, 45-70, 308 Norma Magnum and 257 Roberts. Not really obsolete but usually not seen on Walmart shelves either.

1887 vintage 1873 38WCF here. I love reloading and shooting that old girl!
Also 25, 30, & 32 WCF, 32-40, 38-55, and 45-70.
Note 32-40 can be made from 30-30, hair short but no matter on my end.
And a little more modern, my Rem 721 300 HH, my pride and joy! Yeap, the very same one featured in this months American Rifleman!

iShoot17 said:

I like the way you think! I absolutely love my 350s!

What are the details on the rifle in the picture!

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Rem M7 Mannlicher from their custom shop with a Swarovsli 1.5-4X scope. Bought it as my idea of a "perfect" Elk rifle while stationed in WA state hunting around St. Helen's. Worked well for that purpose, basically a compact .35 Whelen. I've since mounted a 2.5-8X36 Leupold on it (Warne QD mounts so I can swap scopes at will) and developed a 200grn Hornady load for it at just over 2800 FPS to use as a woods rifle this season.

It really is a surprising accurate little carbine.

Neat. I once saw a custom 660 Magnum close to that. The laminated stock and plastic trigger guard discarded and replaced with walnut Mannlicher and shotgun style trigger guard. I couldn't figure out what I would use it for, so it stayed in the store for a while.

Question
As mentioned old rim fires shoot ammo that is unobtainium !
Could one get the priming compound for the 22 rim fire kits and re-prime the cases topped off with a cast bullet ???
If I had one I would certainly make a few so that I could take it off the wall and make some noise with it every once in awhile.

Ought to work as well for a .32 as a .22. Ought.

I shoot a few obscure cartridges:
218 Bee, 256 mag, 32-20,25-20,30 Luger, 30 Mauser, 8mm Lebel, 7.62 Nagant, 7.62 Tokarev, 360 x2 1/4 , 9mm mauser, 11mm mauser, 38-55,8mm Nambu, 405 Winchester, 577-450.

I like shooting and loading for calibers that most others don't have.

6x45
25-45 Sharps
Rimless 30 Herrett for an Ar-15
50 Beowulf
500 S&W
480 Ruger
38-55
405 win
375JDJ
9mm Largo
32-20
300 Rem Ultra Mag
.41 Mag

Nature Boy said:

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Not necessarily obsolete but certainly not mainstream

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Long way from obsolete as Browning still chambers their BLR in it and Ruger did a run of them recently also. I do love my 358.

HowieG said:

Anybody else out there like to piddle around loading and shooting cartridges that are little used and/or actually obsolete?
I am currently considering picking up something in 250-3000 (not a 99 though), a 6mm Remington, or a 257 Bob.

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I would not consider any of the cartridges you are looking to pick up as falling in the "obsolete" category. The 250-3000 and 257 Roberts may be less common, but I've known several folks that have and shoot them. 6mm Remington would not fall in the "little used" category (I have one), although they may not be as common as the 243 Winchester.

I guess I'd have to say my two oddest odd-balls are .455AR/ACP for the shaved Webley Mk.1 and .44-40/.43" for my Uberti Remington pattern Model 1890 revolver. The Webley is modified to be a handloading anomaly but the Uberti was made that way.

In the CIP specifications, .44-40 (WCF) is listed as having a projectile diameter of 10.85mm, which when converted is 0.4272" inches in US/SAE - only, it isn't. There are only two significant digits in 10.85mm. What that means is, in SI terms, there can only be two significant digits in the conversion to inches as well, which makes the projectile specification 0.43" +/- 0.002" (0.05mm ~ 0.002").

This is why (I believe) we see so many ".44WCF" revolvers from Italy with barrel groove diameters as large as .432 but chamber throats as small as .426"; as John Taffin noted, "There seems to be no real standard for barrel groove diameter, with specimens running from .426" all the way up to .432". Sixguns in .44-40 chambering must be measured for groove diameter and treated accordingly." [American Handgunner Jan/Feb 2012; pp.41]. It took a while but I found a good hunting load for the Remberti using 2400 powder, and a good plinking load using Unique, and it's been a good revolver to have and carry. It helped a lot knowing the distributor and dealer. I was able to swap around cylinders until I found one to match my .429" barrel.

My only other real oddballs are 9mm Mak, .38S&W, .32H&R (not "magnum" but the old black powder .32 made by H&R), and .300 Savage. But, they're not really all that odd I guess.

GeoDudeFlorida said:

In the CIP specifications, .44-40 (WCF) is listed as having a projectile diameter of 10.85mm, which when converted is 0.4272" inches in US/SAE - only, it isn't. There are only two significant digits in 10.85mm. What that means is, in SI terms, there can only be two significant digits in the conversion to inches as well, which makes the projectile specification 0.43" +/- 0.002" (0.05mm ~ 0.002").

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No.
Decimal places are not the same as significant figures.
In mathematics, 10.85 has four significant figures, same as .4272.

I think one problem is that CIP and SAAMI consider .44-40 to be a rifle cartridge, hence there is NO cylinder throat specification.

Bore spec is .4225" 10.73mm groove spec is .4285" 10.88mm. Therefore a .432" 10.97mm barrel is oversize in anybody's book.

Jim Watson said:

No.
Decimal places are not the same as significant figures.
In mathematics, 10.85 has four significant figures, same as .4272.

I think one problem is that CIP and SAAMI consider .44-40 to be a rifle cartridge, hence there is NO cylinder throat specification.

Bore spec is .4225" 10.73mm groove spec is .4285" 10.88mm. Therefore a .432" 10.97mm barrel is oversize in anybody's book.

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Then why does Uberti make them as large as .432" as has been observed? Kind of odd they would get away with violating CIP.

Was unable to tell the CIP tolerances. SAAMI tolerances are greater than we might like to think. But 3 1/2 thou sounds like a lot.

Jim Watson said:

Was unable to tell the CIP tolerances. SAAMI tolerances are greater than we might like to think. But 3 1/2 thou sounds like a lot.

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Yeah, beats me, too. I've had three .44-40 Spaghetti sixguns - Pietta, Armi San Marco and Uberti - and only one, the ASM, had .427 bore and chambers. I shouldn't have sold that gun but, the fella who wanted it is a good friend and he had a matching Winchester... so life goes, right? I just know now to slug the bore and, if I can, match up cylinders and barrels before I buy, then custom handload for that revolver. IMO? Worth it! The .44-40 is a great round and the Italian guns are very strong. I load too close to .44magnum pressures for safety, which is why I'm not posting any of my pet loads.

That's good that I saw 2 others using 6mm Rem in this thread. I got a 18" Rem model seven handed down from my grandfather and I have been handloading for it for a long time. I have a lot of components for it, but only the one rifle, which I barely shoot, as it is not that good for bench shooting. I won't ever sell the rifle, but I need to do something with all of the components I have...I am eyeing some type of heavy barrel rifle for target shooting, but not too many options. Would like to try a Ruger M77, but pretty pricey. I've seen some sporterized mousers rebarrelled to 6mm Rem that are pretty low price.

Well, if 32-20 is going to play a prominent role in a "obsolete/little used cartridges" thread then I'm going to throw in .327 Federal Magnum (and .32 H&R Magnum by extension). If you go by ammunition availability the 327 has certainly become little used! If I didn't roll my own I could not shoot it as the only ammo available for more than a year now is at Broke Gunner prices of $2+ dollars a round or more. It'll do anything (and more!) than the .32-20 ever could. I think it's an ideal pistol/carbine round.

One of my rifle calibers is 6.5x53.5Rmm Dutch/Romanian (Mannlicher). There are some live rounds still around, but many of the ones I have (got them with the rifle) are low power training rounds and they are ALL berdan primed. However, brass can be formed from .303 British. I've noted several others who load for the round as well.
I have serveral metric calibers, including 9x57mm. Brass and loaded ammo is made by PPU and perhaps Norma (absent panics). 8x60mm is another rifle in my collection. PPU makes ammo and brass; brass can be formed from .30-06 Springfield by merely shortening the case one millimeter and then fire-forming the brass. Not a real big trick.
The only odd pistol rounds are .32 ACP (7.65mm browning) and .455 Webley (from .45 AR cases and suitable .45 Colt bullets; revolver cylinder was 'shaved' prior to my ownership).
Keeps me out of the pool hall.