Which of these cartridges would you choose?

[gotboostvr]

So as many of you are aware, certain states have limitations on which cartridges can be used for deer hunting. Ohio has one of the odder selections not being based on power factor, or caliber, or case length, just an arbitrary list that we get to pick from. I've edited out the obsolete and under powered from the list to the main contenders.

I already use a 44mag carbine, and will continue to do so for deer drives. I recently acquired a TC Encore with the intent of turning it into my "stand rifle" and will purchase a barrel accordingly.

Which of these cartridges would provide me (with appropriately hand loaded ammunition) the most range? I'm currently leaning towards 357 Maximum but am open to suggestions. I think the 375 Winchester or 41 Remington mag might be nice, flat shooting rounds as well.

.357 Maximum, .375 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .475 Linebaugh and .500 Smith & Wesson.

In any case I will be hand loading whichever cartridge I decide on, most likely I'll never fire a round of factory ammo. This is a bit of an odd question, please relocate if it's in the wrong sub-forum since I wasn't sure where to post it exactly.

Again, I'm concerned with which cartridge (and by extension what bullet and load) will get me the flatest shooting combination out to about a max of 300yrds. All things being equal, I'd rather not be beaten up too bad by super heavy 500gr 45-70 loads either if avoidable.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

From your list I think the 460 Magnum fills all your criteria and will probably deliver the highest velocities out to 300 yards. It has the highest pressure limits of those you listed.

 

[jmr40]

I'd hate to have to pick from those. But I think the 357 maximum will do what you need to do with the least fuss and recoil. Most of the others will beat you up, or offer less range. My 2nd, choice is the 375 Winchester. It would be my 1st choice, if components were more readily available. If you can find a source for brass then it might be my top pick.

 

[Grumulkin]

If you want "the most range" you need to select a round for which pointy bullets are available. I shoot Encore handguns in 444 Marlin, 460 S&W Magnum and 500 S&W Magnum. Of those, the 460 has the most range (2,350 fps from a braked 15 inch barrel). Even at that, after 200 yards, you need to have a good knowledge of range and bullet trajectory to hit what you want.

I found the 460 to be one of the hardest to work up an accurate load for and the 444 Marlin about the easiest. At least in the handgun version, the 460 is also hard on scopes which I was told by a S&W rep was the reason their revolvers have a gain twist barrel; I broke several scopes on mine including a couple of Leupold scopes on my Encore which doesn't have a gain twist barrel (repaired with no fuss by Leupold).

 

[gotboostvr]

It looks like 375 Winchester brass can be easily fireformed from 30-30 brass, which I'd rather not do but I wouldn't consider a deal-breaker.

Plus I've always wanted to try some wild cat cartridges so I could use the experience anyways.

 

[gotboostvr]

Addressing the use of "pointy bullets" has anyone had any luck using sabots in any of these cartridges?

It might not fall in line with the "spirit" of the laws, but isn't verboten.

 

[jmorris]

What a silly law, why are you limited to just those choices? Is it against the law to fire other calibers and every other animal except deer too?

For other reasons I am in the process of building a 357 max rifle barrel for one of my contenders, it does have some fairly impressive numbers.

 

[Fatelvis]

357 Maximum loaded with a cast 358627 or Hornady 180XTP, and a healthy charge of IMR 4227.

 

[Reloadron]

Before gun laws opened to specific rifle cartridges I hunted Ohio for years using a S&W Model 29 44 Remington Magnum with a 6" barrel. With the new laws I would use either my Ruger 44 Carbine in 44 Remington Magnum or my 444 Marlin lever gun. Either way with a standard 240 grain soft point bullet.

Another consideration with the new laws and using rifle is Shotguns and straight-walled cartridge rifles can be loaded with no more than three shells in the chamber and magazine combined. There is a capacity limit for the loaded ammunition.

Ron

 

[gotboostvr]

Reloadtron, I have and use a 5" 629 classic along with a 16" 44mag Rossi 92 that I recently topped with a red dot.

I have had no problems with either, and they're perfect for drives in the southern Ohio hills I mostly hunt. I just want something that is a little better suited to reaching out further.

 

[gotboostvr]

Jmorris, no. Other cartridges are allowed for just about any other game animal or varmit/pest in Ohio.

The ODNR just wants to limit the range of "wild shots" due to Ohio's fairly evenly dispersed population to my understanding.

I'd probably be very happy (and well equipped) with a 30-30 if they allowed it.

 

[Reloadron]

Reloadtron, I have and use a 5" 629 classic along with a 16" 44mag Rossi 92 that I recently topped with a red dot.

I have had no problems with either, and they're perfect for drives in the southern Ohio hills I mostly hunt. I just want something that is a little better suited to reaching out further.

I see the 44 Magnum as a 100 yard gun (my Ruger Carbine open sights). If I want more then the 444 Marlin with a scope. Both were rifles I used extensively in West Virginia. Used handgun in Ohio & W. VA. Never really saw a shot beyond 200 yards and most of the deer I have taken have been 50 yards or less.

For someone looking to get a new suitable rifle there are plenty out there which are now Ohio Legal. I only mentioned what I had and have used to take whitetail local.

Ron

 

[jmorris]

Jmorris, no. Other cartridges are allowed for just about any other game animal or varmit/pest in Ohio.

The ODNR just wants to limit the range of "wild shots" due to Ohio's fairly evenly dispersed population to my understanding

That's kind of what I figured but the only "wild shots" they will limit are ones fired at deer. I imagine there are many thousands more shot fired in Ohio than just the ones fired at deer.

However, I understand logic and firearm laws are not the same thing.

 

[gotboostvr]

I imagine there are many thousands more shot fired in Ohio than just the ones fired at deer

If I have anything to do with it, there sure as heck is!

 

[Reloadron]

For the curious and non-Ohio peoples:

Handgun: With 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger.
Straight-walled cartridge rifles in the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .450 Marlin, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110, and .500 Smith & Wesson.Shotguns and straight-walled cartridge rifles can be loaded with no more than three shells in the chamber and magazine combined.

This is new to Ohio. The problem was Ohio is relatively flat combined with a dense population and that always precluded high power rifle hunting. Hunting deer for example was shotgun with a pumpkin ball or muzzle loaders. Sunday hunting was also prohibited till several years back when Sundays were open to hunting. To each state their own. When I was a kid (late teens) I hunted rabbit and game birds quite a bit in Ohio. Anyway the cartridge choices are above. The 444 Marlin and the 45-70 Government are popular in lever guns around here now as well as the .357 Mag, 44 Mag, and the 45 Colt. It really just depends on how far one wants to reach out.

Ron

 

[hdwhit]

It looks like Ohio is just trying to aid the profitability of the gun industry by keeping alive a market for rifles in archaic and obsolete cartridges.

Given those choices, I think I might opt to drag out the ole' shotgun.

I used to have an old Brazilian-made .410 (that I got cheap because it had a broken extractor and you had to use a cleaning rod to push the fired shell out of the barrel), but it shot slugs just fine and that would seem almost tailor-made for the strictures Ohio puts on deer hunters.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I see the 450 Marlin is listed by Ron but omitted by the OP. That is a good choice too since its usually loaded with a Spitzer bullet and lists higher velocities than the 45-70 without excessive felt recoil. Since I now know the 450 Marlin is legal I'm switching my choice to it over the .460 Magnum.

 

[jmorris]

Being that this is in the reloading forum I would assume that the 450 Marlin was left out because it can't do anything a strong actioned 45-70 can't, with reloads. In fact the 450 has about 9% less capacity than the 45-70, so all else being equal the 45-70 beats the 450.

The 450 isn't a "magnum" they just put the belt on there so it couldn't be chambered in an antique, same reason factory 45-70 factory loads are so weak.

 

[Reloadron]

It looks like Ohio is just trying to aid the profitability of the gun industry by keeping alive a market for rifles in archaic and obsolete cartridges.

Given those choices, I think I might opt to drag out the ole' shotgun.

I used to have an old Brazilian-made .410 (that I got cheap because it had a broken extractor and you had to use a cleaning rod to push the fired shell out of the barrel), but it shot slugs just fine and that would seem almost tailor-made for the strictures Ohio puts on deer hunters.

Ohio has about three times the population density of Texas for example. Highways intersecting and bordering farmlands. Would you want hunters in corn and soy fields discharging rifle calibers like 30-06 Springfield or .308 Winchester? Maybe 7mm Remington Magnum?Till recently rifle was totally prohibited, the reasoning was pretty simple. Should there be an increase in accidents I can see the law changing back real quick. All hunters are not gun savvy and safety conscious types. Like anywhere else we have a few fools who drag a gun out into the fields every year and every year a few manage to shoot each other. That is why I seldom hunted Ohio.

Anyway, what you see is what you have for choices. A few neighboring states have finally enacted similar laws. Additionally figure unlike for example neighboring West Virginia the Ohio Deer Season for Gun is about 1 week. For someone who works that only leaves most a day or two and since they opened Sunday Hunting it has helped.

Given the choices I still like 44 Mag or 45 Colt hand loads as well as 45-70 and 444 Marlin, also hand loaded with the 45-70 in a modern rifle.

Ron

 

[jmorris]

Ohio has about three times the population density of Texas for example. Highways intersecting and bordering farmlands.

I live in Texas and for me it doesn't matter if I am on 5000 acres or in my backyard, I don't let bullets leave the property. Not a .177 pellet, 50 BMG bullet or anything in between.

Texas covered the problem with this.

62.0121. DISCHARGE OF FIREARM ACROSS PROPERTY
LINE. (a) In this section, "firearm" has the meaning assigned by
Section 62.014(a).
(b) A person commits an offense if:
(1) the person, while hunting or engaging in
recreational shooting, knowingly discharges a firearm; and
(2) the projectile from the firearm travels across a
property line.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the person:
(1) owns the property on both sides of each property
line crossed by the projectile; or
(2) has a written agreement with any person who owns
property on either side of each property line crossed by the
projectile that allows the person to discharge a firearm on, over,
or across the property or property line.
(d) The written agreement required under Subsection (c)(2)
must:
(1) contain the name of the person allowed to hunt or
engage in recreational shooting in a manner described by Subsection
(b);
(2) identify the property on either side of the
property line crossed by the projectile; and
(3) be signed by any person who owns the property on
either side of the line crossed by the projectile.
(e) An offense under this section is a Class C Parks and
Wildlife Code misdemeanor.
(f) If conduct constituting an offense under this section
constitutes an offense under a section of the Penal Code, the person
may be prosecuted under either section or both sections.

Makes it my responsibility to be smart vs a feel good mesasure that doesn't greatly change dangers involved when bullets leave ones property.

 

[Reloadron]

A good law. That said half the accidents here are on state land or roads intersecting state land. Even with good laws, they only work as well as people follow them. Jmorris, you can come shoot here anytime. Anyway let's get back on the topic.

Ron

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I think I would go with 45-70 since you're hand loading. Classic round and I have a weakness for it.

Not a fan of the .444 but should be able to use the same bullets as your .44 if you desire.

You have better options than we in most of md (no rifles at all).

 

[gotboostvr]

Jmorris, you are correct with your assumption as to why I left the 450 marlin off the list.

I fully intend to utilize the strength of the Encore action. That's why I didn't snap up a contender.

I've done a fair amount of research, and the general consensus seems to be that this group is mostly on equal footing. Loaded in a Encore.

I admit, I did knowingly start a caliber war. But we seem to be doing a very good job of being even handed.

I came into this already leaning towards a 357 Maximum, I just wanted to hedge my bet and make sure I wasn't missing something starring me in the face.

It seems loaded to its full potential, the 357max is very close to a 35 Remington, which while not a 243win, has more reach than a 44.

 

[Axis II]

I vote 45-70! I shot a doe at around 80yards last year and she turned slight quartering to me when I shot and went through one lung belly and out just in front of the back leg and she hit the dirt. I thought for sure she was gone but she didn't move after that. Hornady leverevolution 325gr of hell! I also use that rifle when 30ft in a climber in WNF Marietta unit and wouldn't hesitate for a 150yatd shot with a 45-70. I would however use the longer barrel and not guide gun as it seems more accurate from what I've read.

In my experience even though it looks As if you can shoot 500yrds down south most are 100. Plus 45-70 you can find at the store if you forget reloads at home. Others not so much.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

We are not talking about the best cartridge, we are trying to meet the OPs requirements. If it were me I would be carrying a 45-70 levergun for anything in the woods larger than deer, and I do. Then it's a 30-30 levergun for deer.

The OP us asking for a specific set of requirements.