Which of these cartridges would you choose?

[TimSr]

What a silly law, why are you limited to just those choices? Is it against the law to fire other calibers and every other animal except deer too?

This is for deer hunting only, when almost every hunter in the state of Ohio is in the field in a seven day period. More people hunt than work that week.

Needs to be looked at in context to understand that it's evolution in progress. Ohio was always a shotgun only state or muzzleloader. In the 1980's they introduced pistol hunting with a specified list of calibers. For a number of years I used my 44 Magnum because my 454 Casull was not on the list. That list eventually evolved to .357 or larger, straight walled cartridge.

Last year they introduced pistol caliber rifles for the FIRST time ever. For the upcoming season they've already added more calibers to the list. I can guarantee the list will expand the following year. I expect it will eventually become simpler and more like the handgun specs. I'd also expect some of the lower powered bottleneck classics such as 30-30 to be added at some point. Eventually, I think it may also go to even less restrictions in some of the mountainous counties in the southeast part of the state. When making big changes to hunting laws, it's always best done incrementally, as each stage proves itself, and the fears are proven unfounded.

Most of Ohio's game laws are established by hunters, who have a huge say in how things are managed here. While on the surface, these limitations may look "stupid", they are actually very smart steps towards a sensible goal. The first few years especially, these restrictions will evolve rapidly, so it would not be wise to make any long term decisions based on today's list, other than to understand that the list of legal calibers will certainly grow, and nothing will likely be removed.

I've used 454 Casull revolver since they were legal in the 90's, and never recovered a bullet from a deer. I'll never get 300 yard accuracy from an open sighted revolver, but I would think that 460, will do everything you want.

 

[Don McDowell]

So as many of you are aware, certain states have limitations on which cartridges can be used for deer hunting. Ohio has one of the odder selections not being based on power factor, or caliber, or case length, just an arbitrary list that we get to pick from. I've edited out the obsolete and under powered from the list to the main contenders.

I already use a 44mag carbine, and will continue to do so for deer drives. I recently acquired a TC Encore with the intent of turning it into my "stand rifle" and will purchase a barrel accordingly.

Which of these cartridges would provide me (with appropriately hand loaded ammunition) the most range? I'm currently leaning towards 357 Maximum but am open to suggestions. I think the 375 Winchester or 41 Remington mag might be nice, flat shooting rounds as well.

.357 Maximum, .375 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .475 Linebaugh and .500 Smith & Wesson.

In any case I will be hand loading whichever cartridge I decide on, most likely I'll never fire a round of factory ammo. This is a bit of an odd question, please relocate if it's in the wrong sub-forum since I wasn't sure where to post it exactly.

Again, I'm concerned with which cartridge (and by extension what bullet and load) will get me the flatest shooting combination out to about a max of 300yrds. All things being equal, I'd rather not be beaten up too bad by super heavy 500gr 45-70 loads either if avoidable.

None of the cartridges you listed will be reliable 300 yd guns. All are to susceptible to wind drift, and all drop like a rock beyond about 150-200 yds.
I would suggest the 375 winchester or a 38-55. As you are using an Encore, the .405 winchester does shoot relatively flat .

 

[buck460XVR]

Again, I'm concerned with which cartridge (and by extension what bullet and load) will get me the flatest shooting combination out to about a max of 300yrds.

None of the cartridges you listed will be reliable 300 yd guns. All are to susceptible to wind drift, and all drop like a rock beyond about 150-200 yds.

.........and that is the whole idea behind the caliber restrictions. To keep folks from trying to reach out to 300 yards and to minimize the threat to others from those folks that still do. Shooting across flat agricultural fields is not just dangerous because of the lack of impediments, but because of ricochets which take the bullet even farther downrange and in unintended directions. For the most part, a good rifled slug gun will do just as well under the distances the state wants to limit hunters as a handgun caliber cartridge. Still some folks want to push this distance to give them an edge over everyone else. I honestly believe that the next trend in caliber development will be wildcats in straight-walled handgun calibers with the sole purpose of "pushing" the distance for hunters in similar caliber restricted hunting areas. I have hunted deer exclusively with revolvers and revolver caliber carbines for the last dozen years. My max range with either the .460 revolver or my 77/44 carbine is 150 yards. Anything past that distance is safe and I have no regrets. As soon as one finds that magic bullet that shoots like a laser for 300 yards from a handgun caliber carbine, they are going to lust for one that will do 400 yards, because OMG, what happens when that buck of a lifetime is standing out there @ 400 yards? I think the OP would do just fine to practice with his .44 carbine and become proficient with it to 150 yards or so and be content knowing that he is being ethical and humane as opposed to pushing something else marginally out to 300 yards. To most experienced hunters, that is the priority anyways, or it should be. To hunt ethically within the limits and parameters set by the state or other governing body as opposed to searching for that gun and bullet made from unobtainium. So what if that buck is @ 250 yards and out of range? It's out of range for everyone else too, no different than not shooting till it's light out enough to make sure of your target.

 

[gotboostvr]

Oh, I'm perfectly comfortable to 150 with my carbine.

But you're right, I am fully aware none of these are exactly long range cartridges exactly. Even if it were legal, I seriously doubt I'd use my 308win as it seems overkill for the ranges involved. Which would usually involve about 200yrds max where I currently hunt from stands.

So far 75% of my hunting and 100% of my kills have been from deer drives at less than 50 yards. I was just looking to maximize my potential for a "stand rifle" that'll likely be scoped. Might as well pick the best suited caliber.

 

[Slamfire]

http://ohiodnr.gov/news/post/ohio-wildlife-council-approves-2014-2015-hunting-regulations

Ohio Wildlife Council Approves 2014-2015 Hunting Regulations

The council also approved straight-walled cartridge rifles for deer hunting. The rifles are the same caliber and use the same straight-walled cartridges that are currently legal for use in handguns. The new regulation is designed to allow additional opportunities for hunters that own these guns or want to hunt with these guns. These rifles have reduced recoil compared to larger shotguns, and the rifles are more accurate than the same caliber handgun.

Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.

Even though I have a 45/70 and a 44 Magnum rifle, these rounds have so much drop that you better be pretty close to the deer. I think the 44 Magnum as good as the 30-30 up to 100 yards, but out to 200 yards, the 30-30 would be a better choice. You don't have that choice in Ohio apparently. I don't think any of these rounds are 300 yard rounds, unless you have a range finder and a drop table, plus time to adjust your sights. I just looked at the ballistics of the 375 Winchester and that, in my opinion, is the best ballistically. At least it pushes a 200 grain bullet to 2400 fps. If not that, then the 444 Marlin.

 

[TimSr]

As soon as one finds that magic bullet that shoots like a laser for 300 yards from a handgun caliber carbine, they are going to lust for one that will do 400 yards, because OMG, what happens when that buck of a lifetime is standing out there @ 400 yards?

Yep, and each new breakthrough becomes the new standard. Started as foster slugs in your rabbit gun in Ohio, and deer were taken at 50 yards or less, normally. Then it was "pistols don't have a longer range than shotguns and "why not muzzleloaders". Then came inline scoped muzzleloaders, and rifled, scoped shotguns with flat shooting saboted slugs, when 150 yard shots became common. Then the pistol calibers were expanded to all the new super big bores. Then it was, "why can't we shoot these same rounds from rifles?" Then it was "hey this is a classic rifle caliber 45-70,444 etc. and its not really any different than a pistol caliber......and now its "why straight walled cartridge when XXXX doesn't shoot any farther or flater than...YYYY?"

2016-17 regs have expanded the list from what Slamfire posted.

This is why I say that its an evolving process which I expect to eventually phase out much the restriction as each step proves itself safe, unless something negative happens that would reverse that decades long trend.

Personally, I'm limited to iron sights, pistol range 100 yards or a little beyond, and in the parts of the state I hunt in, extending that range would be of no value whatsoever.

 

[hdwhit]

Reloadron wrote:

Ohio has about three times the population density of Texas for example. Highways intersecting and bordering farmlands. Would you want hunters in corn and soy fields discharging rifle calibers like 30-06 Springfield or .308 Winchester? Maybe 7mm Remington Magnum?

First, I may currently live in Texas, but I have lived for extended periods of time in 7 different states and do not have so parochial an attitude as to believe that the entire country is like North Texas.

Second, at no time did I advocate military cartridges. You are the one who chose to assume that - even though the discussion of shotguns that followed should have told you your assumption was wrong - but then you went on carry it to a ridiculous extreme by introducing magnum calibers.

Third, what I DID suggest was to eschew the entire idea of using a straight-walled rifle cartridge altogether and use a .410 shotgun with slugs - an affordable combination entirely in keeping with the objectives of ensuring that the weapon would be employed at distances consistent with the conditions in Ohio.

 

[gotboostvr]

Hdwhit, economy was never the intent of this "mental exercise" and frankly a .410 shotgun is pretty aenimic compared to every single cartridge I listed.

I was simply trying to stretch my point blank range as far as the law allows. But like I originally figured, the hivemind seems to agree that all these options are on very similar footing.

 

[Reloadron]

Reloadron wrote:



First, I may currently live in Texas, but I have lived for extended periods of time in 7 different states and do not have so parochial an attitude as to believe that the entire country is like North Texas.

Second, at no time did I advocate military cartridges. You are the one who chose to assume that - even though the discussion of shotguns that followed should have told you your assumption was wrong - but then you went on carry it to a ridiculous extreme by introducing magnum calibers.

Third, what I DID suggest was to eschew the entire idea of using a straight-walled rifle cartridge altogether and use a .410 shotgun with slugs - an affordable combination entirely in keeping with the objectives of ensuring that the weapon would be employed at distances consistent with the conditions in Ohio.

All I did was use Texas as an example of why Ohio has different laws. I never assumed anything especially as to a military cartridge. No clue why you seem agitated? Ohio is not the only state I have resided in but all here nor there. I merely explained why Ohio has the laws it does. Next time I'll use Montana as an example, would that be OK?

Ron

 

[GooseGestapo]

Interesting thread.
I had an aquaintance approach me with a slightly different angle.
He owns and hunts property in Ohio. He'd bought a Browning 78 in .45/70. Beautiful rifle!

He, like most was a little naive regarding the .45/70. He bought what some had told him was a good deer load. 325gr Hornady FTX. INDEED, a good load, but he didn't yet have the rifle. He asked if I'd bring some of my ammo, and if I could reload the Hornady to duplicate factory. Yes, yes, and yes.

He didn't consider what happens when you push a 325gr bullet 2,200+fps!!!

I had taken some 400gr Lee FNHB loaded over some TrailBoss, to plink with my Marlin 1895GG. He really took to them! Finally, he offered me the leftover Hornady's, paid me the cost of the box of 100 FTX bullets I'd loaded over 43.0gr H4198 for the 100 or so Lee cast ( a fair trade, so he thought), brass was my only concern... I cast!

He ended up shooting a nice meat doe at 45yds! His son used the rifle to take a large buck at ~90yds. Through and through penetration (no suprise!).
Load chrono's just over 1,100fps...

Personally, I'd work up a load for the .44mag with the 225gr FTX. It's enough...

 

[Jim Watson]

If you wanted to stretch the range within cartridge limits, a .45-70 is a pretty good long range round IF YOU KNOW THE RANGE so you can sight appropriately.
A modern rangefinder and a Sharps would get you way out in front of the spirit off the game regulations.