Seecamp LWS 32

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unclenunzie said:
P32 - flyer wire: http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/flyerwire.htm

I did it a while back, seems just fine. Not suggesting for the Seecamp.
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Seecamp has a spacer built into the magazine so it only holds HP or flat nose. Take the spacer out and it will run some round nose, not all, depends on OAL. I have some Fiocchi rounds that some fit some don't and there is about 1/2 mm difference in OAL throughout the 4 boxes I bought.
 
aaaaa said:
Seecamp has a spacer built into the magazine so it only holds HP or flat nose. Take the spacer out and it will run some round nose, not all, depends on OAL. I have some Fiocchi rounds that some fit some don't and there is about 1/2 mm difference in OAL throughout the 4 boxes I bought.
Click to expand...

I may be wrong but I recall vaguely that Larry Seecamp recommended HP only, something about pressure with fmj.
 
unclenunzie said:
I may be wrong but I recall vaguely that Larry Seecamp recommended HP only, something about pressure with fmj.
Click to expand...
From the Wikipedia page on 32 ACP

60 gr (4 g) JHP[1] 1,100 ft/s (335 m/s) 161 ft⋅lbf (218 J)
65 gr (4 g) JHP[2] 925 ft/s (282 m/s) 123 ft⋅lbf (167 J)
73 gr (5 g) FMJ[3] 984 ft/s (300 m/s) 158 ft⋅lbf (214 J)
73 gr (5 g) FMJ[4] 1,043 ft/s (318 m/s) 177 ft⋅lbf (240 J)
Test barrel length: 4 in,[1] 4 in,[2] 5.9 in,[3] 3.9 in[4]

If velocity and energy are any indication of pressure, I am not seeing much difference between the two JHPs and the two FMJ.
Table on the right side of this page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_ACP gives more data like the brand of ammo for each of these ratings.

But I also have heard of Seacamps having the slide fly off, sometimes backward into the shooter's face! But I also read that they beefed up the guns at some point and a serial number above something like 033000 (would have to search it) was the beefier version. Mine is a 0500- - - serial number so should be good, or at least better. But I don't know if it was the pressure or just the heavier bullet. Seacamp's recommended ammo list only has 60 and 65 grain bullets. WWB is 71 grain and Fiocchi FMJ is 73. I thought I read heavier bullets caused more stress on the slide. Of course, none of this likely makes a whole lot of difference if one is going to buy a couple boxes WWB and shoot 4 or four mags from each bos to ensure it feeds, then save the rest for self defense and not keep target shooting with it.
 
[QUOTE
But I also have heard of Seacamps having the slide fly off, sometimes backward into the shooter's face! But I also read that they beefed up the guns at some point and a serial number above something like 033000 (would have to search it) was the beefier version. Mine is a 0500- - - serial number so should be good, or at least better. But I don't know if it was the pressure or just the heavier bullet. Seacamp's recommended ammo list only has 60 and 65 grain bullets. WWB is 71 grain and Fiocchi FMJ is 73. I thought I read heavier bullets caused more stress on the slide. Of course, none of this likely makes a whole lot of difference if one is going to buy a couple boxes WWB and shoot 4 or four mags from each bos to ensure it feeds, then save the rest for self defense and not keep target shooting with it.[/QUOTE]

Please provide some reference for this slide in the face statement.

The change made in the Seecamps at 33000 serial numbers was a stronger stainless steel, not a beefier version. This new stronger steel alloy is what made the .380acp model possible.
 
usp9 said:
[QUOTE
But I also have heard of Seacamps having the slide fly off, sometimes backward into the shooter's face! But I also read that they beefed up the guns at some point and a serial number above something like 033000 (would have to search it) was the beefier version. Mine is a 0500- - - serial number so should be good, or at least better. But I don't know if it was the pressure or just the heavier bullet. Seacamp's recommended ammo list only has 60 and 65 grain bullets. WWB is 71 grain and Fiocchi FMJ is 73. I thought I read heavier bullets caused more stress on the slide. Of course, none of this likely makes a whole lot of difference if one is going to buy a couple boxes WWB and shoot 4 or four mags from each bos to ensure it feeds, then save the rest for self defense and not keep target shooting with it.
Click to expand...

Please provide some reference for this slide in the face statement.

The change made in the Seecamps at 33000 serial numbers was a stronger stainless steel, not a beefier version. This new stronger steel alloy is what made the .380acp model possible.
Click to expand...

So did all calibers get the stronger stainless steel or just the 380? I guess beefier applies to stronger stainless steel but would normally suggest thicker steel.

Actually the slide hit him in the side of the head:



Here is one with the slide flying forward about 5 feet:
 
aaaaa said:
So did all calibers get the stronger stainless steel or just the 380? I guess beefier applies to stronger stainless steel but would normally suggest thicker steel.

Actually the slide hit him in the side of the head:



Here is one with the slide flying forward about 5 feet:
Click to expand...


I'd have to see the slide, but from here it looks like the slide retaining "button" and how it engages the slide is the failure point.
 
chicharrones said:
I'd have to see the slide, but from here it looks like the slide retaining "button" and how it engages the slide is the failure point.
Click to expand...
One thing for sure, the gun has no sights and I think I will use the point and shoot method. I don't need to be hit in the head, rather take a chest shot with the slide if it comes down to it. Many SD events do not allow use of sights anyway, so practice point and shoot is a good idea. My Seacamp is a 32 so likely not an issue for this slide malfunction so long as when I clean it I properly reassemble it. And apparently do not oil the slide release catch or it might come off.

They have an ugly used Kel-Tec P32 at my local GS for $250 maybe a good get if they either let it go for $200 or toss in a box of 50 rounds at their price.
 
aaaaa said:
One thing for sure, the gun has no sights and I think I will use the point and shoot method. I don't need to be hit in the head, rather take a chest shot with the slide if it comes down to it. Many SD events do not allow use of sights anyway, so practice point and shoot is a good idea. My Seacamp is a 32 so likely not an issue for this slide malfunction so long as when I clean it I properly reassemble it. And apparently do not oil the slide release catch or it might come off.

They have an ugly used Kel-Tec P32 at my local GS for $250 maybe a good get if they either let it go for $200 or toss in a box of 50 rounds at their price.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. If those videos were of the .380 guns, I probably wouldn't worry about that problem with the .32 guns. I know my Guardian .32 is a different gun, but the slide retention is similar and the slide never came unhooked.

Back to those videos, the second video with the slide launching forward looks like the slide came off the retaining "button". In the first gun, I don't know why the slide would come flying backwards unless the slide itself broke.
 
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aaaaa said:
One thing for sure, the gun has no sights and I think I will use the point and shoot method. I don't need to be hit in the head, rather take a chest shot with the slide if it comes down to it. Many SD events do not allow use of sights anyway, so practice point and shoot is a good idea. My Seacamp is a 32 so likely not an issue for this slide malfunction so long as when I clean it I properly reassemble it. And apparently do not oil the slide release catch or it might come off.

They have an ugly used Kel-Tec P32 at my local GS for $250 maybe a good get if they either let it go for $200 or toss in a box of 50 rounds at their price.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention, and you probably have already found this out, there are two generations of extractors on those KelTecs.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/differenes-in-the-kel-tec-p-32-extractors.729639/
 
aaaaa said:
But I also have heard of Seacamps having the slide fly off, sometimes backward into the shooter's face!
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that was a thing. I had an early model. Although I never had the slide fly completely off, I did experience a situation where the rear portion of the slide came to rest on top of the frame rather than in battery. (The front portion stayed where it was supposed to be.) It must have jumped the flimsy button that rides inside the slide rail. I sent it back to Seecamp and they replaced the slide and recoil spring assembly. I never had any problems after that. I didn't really enjoy shooting the gun, and it sat in the safe for many years until I got rid of it.
 
The slide coming off can be due to excess lubrication on the retaining "nub".

Seecamp always recommended eezox as a cleaner and lube. Apply very lightly and let dry. I have a pre cnc Seecamp .32, as well as an early 380 and a .32 that was made right after the switch over to cnc machining. All three were made in Milford.

All three have been perfectly reliable. They are an enthusiast's pistol. There are some unique tradeoffs with the design that require a unique manual of arms as well as maintenance procedures.

I am looking for another Milford 380 as well as a couple Milford 25s to add to my little collection.
 
My first impression at the range with the Seacamp LWS 32. First thought is I have to get a method down for shooting this thing.

1. It hurts the web of my had between thumb and first finger more than my hard-gripped snubby 357 Magnum revolver shooting mag loads!
2. It bangs the trigger finger.
3. The top eject is not ideal, some came back at me, and not on their way down.
4. Got some ejection jams, one even required I drop the mag to clear it.
5. Not having a slide lock is a liability in clearing jams.

All in all though it is a decent little gun for what it is so I will hang on to it but will not be taking it to the range for fun. I probably will take one more range trip to apply what I learned. Here is how I can deal with some of the items listed above.

1. Oh well, not like I will be shooting this all that much.
2. Instead of trying to use the last joint of the finger to pull the trigger I am just going to let my finger sit all the way in and pull by the second joint. I started doing that towards the end and it helped control the gun (and with this tiny gun, control is about 90% hanging on tight). It also makes the finger banging a bit better.
3. Hopefully am wearing my glasses if I need to shoot it in SD.
4. This is probably a limp wrist effect but not an actual limp wrist. Rather, these tiny guns with little area to grip tend to not be held so firmly (at least not without more practice), and so the limp wrist might just be the poor grip.
5. Oh well.

I tried left hand but not much, a few rounds, it was enought for now to use the right hand. Using both hands is tough as there is nowhere to grip with the support hand and I did feel the slide with the support hand, thankfully at the back of it's throw, so no blood.

I ran about 54 rounds of WWB half each from two boxes and split between the two magazines. I also ran a mag and chamber full (7 rounds) of hardball with the slide spacer removed and those shot just fine. I almost think the gun would be better running hardball, but the OAL of 32 ACP is too long for the magazine even with the spacer removed. I just had some ammo that was under the OAL by about half a mm and it worked.

So, the mouse gun is a compromise. Maybe that Kel Tec P32 is the one to get if I really want to go with a mouse gun for backup. BUt I guess the seacamp works for backup once I get my method down so it does not jam.

Do I want to try a Seacamp 380 ACP? No way if you paid me. The 32 beats you up enough.

Also shot the S&W 31-1 Revolver in 32 S&W Long a about 38 rounds and it was a pleasure to shoot!:)
 
aaaaa said:
My first impression at the range with the Seacamp LWS 32. First thought is I have to get a method down for shooting this thing.

1. It hurts the web of my had between thumb and first finger more than my hard-gripped snubby 357 Magnum revolver shooting mag loads!
2. It bangs the trigger finger.
3. The top eject is not ideal, some came back at me, and not on their way down.
4. Got some ejection jams, one even required I drop the mag to clear it.
5. Not having a slide lock is a liability in clearing jams.

All in all though it is a decent little gun for what it is so I will hang on to it but will not be taking it to the range for fun. I probably will take one more range trip to apply what I learned. Here is how I can deal with some of the items listed above.

1. Oh well, not like I will be shooting this all that much.
2. Instead of trying to use the last joint of the finger to pull the trigger I am just going to let my finger sit all the way in and pull by the second joint. I started doing that towards the end and it helped control the gun (and with this tiny gun, control is about 90% hanging on tight). It also makes the finger banging a bit better.
3. Hopefully am wearing my glasses if I need to shoot it in SD.
4. This is probably a limp wrist effect but not an actual limp wrist. Rather, these tiny guns with little area to grip tend to not be held so firmly (at least not without more practice), and so the limp wrist might just be the poor grip.
5. Oh well.

I tried left hand but not much, a few rounds, it was enought for now to use the right hand. Using both hands is tough as there is nowhere to grip with the support hand and I did feel the slide with the support hand, thankfully at the back of it's throw, so no blood.

I ran about 54 rounds of WWB half each from two boxes and split between the two magazines. I also ran a mag and chamber full (7 rounds) of hardball with the slide spacer removed and those shot just fine. I almost think the gun would be better running hardball, but the OAL of 32 ACP is too long for the magazine even with the spacer removed. I just had some ammo that was under the OAL by about half a mm and it worked.

So, the mouse gun is a compromise. Maybe that Kel Tec P32 is the one to get if I really want to go with a mouse gun for backup. BUt I guess the seacamp works for backup once I get my method down so it does not jam.

Do I want to try a Seacamp 380 ACP? No way if you paid me. The 32 beats you up enough.

Also shot the S&W 31-1 Revolver in 32 S&W Long a about 38 rounds and it was a pleasure to shoot!:)
Click to expand...

Pretty much like shooting my .32 ACP Guardian. It only ran well if I gripped it and fired with "anger" or "aggression". That little thing would slip in my hand just enough to act like I was limp wristing otherwise. Always one handed shooting, two hands . . . lololol. Not enough to grab onto, and one might blast a finger off if it got in front of the barrel.

Regarding no last shot hold open and no ejector (which is different than an extractor) . . .

Each cartridge still in the magazine acts as the ejector to the preceding round fired. And the last empty cartridge acts as a slide hold open when it stovepipes. I found it best to let the stovepiped shell stay in position when you load a mag, then rack the slide and it's ready to go again.
 
It may be a mouse gun but it is a pretty feisty one at that. Of course I was shooting 71 grain WWB, not the 60 and 65 grain that Seacamp recommends. The hardballs were 73 grain Fiocchi. Maybe I should try some of the recommended ammo too.

While you cannot open the slide more than about 1/4 inch without the magazine in the gun, if you prop the slide open with a spent case, you can drop the magazine (as I did at the range to clear a jam). Now I recall that jam was not a spent case but a mis-feed. I did have a few jams with empty cases. But I did not think about were they at the end of the magazine or not. I will keep that in mind next time I go.

Upon inspection of some empty cases I find a bulge in the case just forward of about half way, which is explained here:
Operation of the action on these Seecamp pistols is through chamber-ring delayed blowback. When a cartridge is fired, the case expands into a recessed ring that seals the sides of the chamber. This seal prevents high-pressure gas from escaping into the action of the gun and delays opening the breech until the bullet has left the barrel. A raised portion at the rear of the chamber, which is smaller in diameter than the front of the chamber, slows the rearward moving slide by constricting the expanded portion of the case as it is extracted.
Click to expand...
https://www.guns.com/news/review/3051716-2
 
aaaaa said:
My first impression at the range with the Seacamp LWS 32.

1. It hurts the web of my had between thumb and first finger more than my hard-gripped snubby 357 Magnum revolver shooting mag loads!
2. It bangs the trigger finger.
3. The top eject is not ideal, some came back at me, and not on their way down.
4. Got some ejection jams, one even required I drop the mag to clear it.
5. Not having a slide lock is a liability in clearing jams.

All in all though it is a decent little gun for what it is so I will hang on to it but will not be taking it to the range for fun. I probably will take one more range trip to apply what I learned. Here is how I can deal with some of the items listed above.

1. Oh well, not like I will be shooting this all that much.
3. Hopefully am wearing my glasses if I need to shoot it in SD.
4. This is probably a limp wrist effect but not an actual limp wrist. Rather, these tiny guns with little area to grip tend to not be held so firmly (at least not without more practice), and so the limp wrist might just be the poor grip.
5. Oh well.


So, the mouse gun is a compromise. Maybe that Kel Tec P32 is the one to get if I really want to go with a mouse gun for backup. BUt I guess the seacamp works for backup once I get my method down so it does not jam.
Click to expand...

The bolded parts contradict the red part.

If one is in need of utilizing a back-up (I carry one) I'm thinking it advantageous that it work even if grip or method is not perfect.
If that was my 1st experience with a gun, my follow up would be what I traded it for.
 
CDW4ME said:
The bolded parts contradict the red part.

If one is in need of utilizing a back-up (I carry one) I'm thinking it advantageous that it work even if grip or method is not perfect.
If that was my 1st experience with a gun, my follow up would be what I traded it for.
Click to expand...

I don't see it as a contradiction. I qualified "nice little gun" with "for what is is." At this point I do not believe it is a bad gun, just a gun that one needs to become accustomed to. If I take it to the range a couple more times and just cannot get it to work right, I may need to reevaluate. Maybe I need to get the exact approved ammo and not WWB. The extra bullet weight or other factors with that cartridge may be the problem, though some have posted elsewhere that WWB works fine for them. I have relatively big hands which may present an additional challenge to running the gun. We'll see.

Even if it turns out the gun were unreliable for SD backup, I probably would keep it as a collectible. So in my mind it is a win-win.
 
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Just ordered 150 rounds of the recommended PMC Bronze 60gr. JHP
http://www.seecamp.com/ammunition.htm
Finicky gun, best stay with the recommendations. HP do not expand in this caliber so I saw some were suggesting a dab of glue in the hollow of each one used for SD to help improve penetration. Not sure that is needed though.
 
It's been said before - the Seecamp is a purpose built gun with very specific ammo recommendations. You're not getting expansion from hollow points in that little gun, period. What you do get is described on their website, and remember - this was designed and built in the early 1980s as a tiny, lightweight hideout backup gun. Only the steel was upgraded and use of CNC machining are new in all that time.

http://seecamp.com/faq.htm See section: "why hollow points"

I actually really like mine, but they have been eclipsed by more modern designs, mostly credit to George Kellgren (Kel-Tec) for bringing locked-breech hybrid double-action designs to market that fit that role a lot better (P32, etc).

As far as the NAA copy - I have one also, and have shot it (and repaired it) a LOT. It's a crude knock-off that mostly works and has features some like and some don't. Personally I have a love/hate relationship with it LOL. It's slightly larger and heavier, yet it positively hurts to shoot while my Seecamp does not.

If I absolutely had to have the tiniest reasonably effective defensive firearm on my person, The Seecamp 32 would be it. But that tininess is only one aspect and I'd rather have my P32 in that role or an LCP variant.

index.php

index.php

index.php
 
Just got a response from Seacamp and they said my serial number places my gun as being manufactured on 16 March 2009. According to Wikipedia, that means my gun is hand made:

The elder Seecamp died in 1989. His son, Larry, kept the company going in a small shop. He only had about seven employees at his height. Until the acquisition by Whalley in 2014, all guns were handmade one at a time in the old-world fashion.
Click to expand...
 
unclenunzie said:
It's been said before - the Seecamp is a purpose built gun with very specific ammo recommendations. You're not getting expansion from hollow points in that little gun, period. What you do get is described on their website, and remember - this was designed and built in the early 1980s as a tiny, lightweight hideout backup gun. Only the steel was upgraded and use of CNC machining are new in all that time.

http://seecamp.com/faq.htm See section: "why hollow points"

I actually really like mine, but they have been eclipsed by more modern designs, mostly credit to George Kellgren (Kel-Tec) for bringing locked-breech hybrid double-action designs to market that fit that role a lot better (P32, etc).

As far as the NAA copy - I have one also, and have shot it (and repaired it) a LOT. It's a crude knock-off that mostly works and has features some like and some don't. Personally I have a love/hate relationship with it LOL. It's slightly larger and heavier, yet it positively hurts to shoot while my Seecamp does not.

If I absolutely had to have the tiniest reasonably effective defensive firearm on my person, The Seecamp 32 would be it. But that tininess is only one aspect and I'd rather have my P32 in that role or an LCP variant.
Click to expand...

Whelp, i should not keep passing up that KelTec P32 that sits at my local gun shop for $250 on consignment, though i am not fond of plastic guns. Not sure if it has a spare mag with it either.

Good info on the hollow points too. Larry apparently knew what he was doing and we ignore his wisdom at our own peril.
 
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aaaaa writes:

Whelp, i should not keep passing up that KelTec P32 that sits at my local gun shop for $250 on consignment, though i am not fond of plastic guns. Not sure if it has a spare mag with it either.
Click to expand...

That's a fair price in today's climate for a good-condition P32, particularly for a second-generation model (flat-topped slide, externally-fastened extractor.) I'd probably pick it up myself as a spare. I already have both a P32 and a Seecamp (along with two pocket-.380s, a TCP and a LCP-MAX, but I do like that little Kel-Tec.

You can find ten-round magazines for the P32, too. Shooting it with one in place makes it feel like a different gun altogether. Carry the gun with the seven-rounder in place and the bigger one as your reload. ;)
 
MedWheeler said:
aaaaa writes:



That's a fair price in today's climate for a good-condition P32, particularly for a second-generation model (flat-topped slide, externally-fastened extractor.) I'd probably pick it up myself as a spare. I already have both a P32 and a Seecamp (along with two pocket-.380s, a TCP and a LCP-MAX, but I do like that little Kel-Tec.

You can find ten-round magazines for the P32, too. Shooting it with one in place makes it feel like a different gun altogether. Carry the gun with the seven-rounder in place and the bigger one as your reload. ;)
Click to expand...

You are talking me into it and I am planning to stop over there today too! By flat-topped slide, externally fastened extractor, you mean this one?
index.php


Is there any reason to get a first generation vs second generation or are they all about the same quality and performance.

I like the idea of the 10 round second magazine!

Of course, I could instead get the Ruger LCP they have used. Can't remember the price, but 380 ACP is a good bit more protection than a 32 ACP.
 
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aaaaa said:
Of course, I could instead get the Ruger LCP they have used. Can't remember the price, but 380 ACP is a good bit more protection than a 32 ACP.
Click to expand...

Yes. I'd prefer a 380 as a back-up over a 32 (if those were the only options).
 
CDW4ME said:
Yes. I'd prefer a 380 as a back-up over a 32 (if those were the only options).
Click to expand...
Excellent advice. I know a man who teaches a combat pistol class who carries a 380 LCP, the new one with the larger magazine capacity (I think 10 rounds) as his main carry.

Me, I don't carry except where legal, which as I don't have a licence to carry, is on my own property. I have been carrying my S&W 642. I don't see a problem with the 32 ACP for backup, and in fact, it can be used as a main carry, depending on what one wants to be prepared for. If I go into bear country I better carry my S&W 686 loaded with 357 Magnum or get a 44.

As it is, I have had my eye on the Kel Tec P32 for a long time and finally grabbed it. It is a Gen 1. I'll post some photos later on the applicable thread.

As for the Seacamp, I will report back here once I see how it performs with more practice and the recommended ammo which is on order.
 
aaaaa said:
Me, I don't carry except where legal, which as I don't have a licence to carry, is on my own property. I have been carrying my S&W 642.
I don't see a problem with the 32 ACP for backup, and in fact, it can be used as a main carry, depending on what one wants to be prepared for.
If I go into bear country I better carry my .
Click to expand...

You don't have a carry license, only carry on your property. How did I miss this information before. Is getting a carry permit an option?

32 as a main carry "depending on what one wants to be prepared for". o_O You're trying to give me an aneurism.
I carry to try and hopefully stop somebody(s) from inflicting serious or lethal harm to me. IMO, that goal is most likely achieved with bullets that penetrate at least 12'' and consistently expand to at least .60 or more. That goal is completely independent of where I am at, same goal wherever, so same ammo requirement everywhere. 32 acp does not meet that criteria nor does 380.

If you went into bear country and assuming its not your property wouldn't you need a carry permit and get a Glock 20 (10mm) with 10 more chances than a revolver.
 
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