10mm resurgence

cfullgraf said:
I have S&W Model 610 revolver. Great gun but I'm not sure all the 10mm hype is valid.The 610 shoots like any of my S&W N frame revolvers and the power/recoil is very manageable.

I do love the moon clip loading for my Model 610. Beats the H*** out of speed loaders.

But, bottom line, I'd rather shoot a 45 Colt or 44 Special from the large frame revolvers I have.

I do not have a 10mm semi-auto--yet. Maybe someday but it will be a 1911 variant.
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Well, the 10mm can fit in .357 sized revolvers, Ruger makes a GP100 in 10mm, but they've yet to try and cram it into the SP101, I guess the SP is too small. Point is that I'm fine with 10mm Auto in a GP100 or 686 size revolver, but go up to N frames and the Redhawk and I'm out, not unless it's in 10mm Magnum.

When it comes to revolver caliber, frame size matters, but don't mistake that to mean 10mm is a solution in search of a problem.
 
Mark_Mark said:
When are they coming out with a 10mm Magnum?
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I don't see anyone willing to put that kind of investment into the R&D for a semi auto 10mm Mag, but a revolver I can and the only company I see willing to do it would be Ruger.

I have a long running dream of a rimmed 10mm Magnum cartridge and a revolver cut for moon clips to shoot 10mm Auto and .40 S&W. It'll never happen, but a kid can dream, can't he?
 
TarDevil said:
I'm sure this is nothing new to you guys, but I've stood 10 feet to the side and slightly aft of shooters pounding targets with 10mm (Glock 20). I could feel the percussion. I can't imagine turning that round loose in a home.

I started a thread recently wherein a salesman tried selling me a S&W MP 10mm, saying the percussion was no worse than .45 acp. Long story short, it's overkill in home SD. In an urban war, maybe it has a place.
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Then don't buy one for home defense or use .40 in the Glock 10mm's instead or the lower power 10mm ammo that is basically 50 fps faster than .40.

After I understood what a terrible hard barrier penetrator .45 is, I concluded it was fine for home defense. The lower sound pressure is nice, but it's not the sole reason I like the caliber.

To me 10mm and .40 are for carrying outside the home, but still fine for the home, just not the best.
 
Gunfu_Blaster.45 said:
It takes 7" of barrel to match what 45super does in 4.5". Anything less then 6" barrels doesn't do anything .40sw can't do.
I would like a Glock 40 with a threaded KKM barrel. But I have a perfect running G30S with a 4.5" KKM threaded barrel .45 Super that does the same or better with similar weight projectiles. But for woods, I prefer 200gr and up and .45 has 255gr.
If I want a concealed carry, the G27 is a much better candidate for the same projectiles. A 10mm carbine makes more sense to me at 10" or more, but at that point the 9mm would fair better.
For me, only if I get a spectacular deal on one.
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How's your wallet feel after buying that .45 Super ammo?

10mm is always going to have the benefit of higher capacity and cheaper, more available ammo.
 
TTv2 said:
Then don't buy one for home defense or use .40 in the Glock 10mm's instead or the lower power 10mm ammo that is basically 50 fps faster than .40.

After I understood what a terrible hard barrier penetrator .45 is, I concluded it was fine for home defense. The lower sound pressure is nice, but it's not the sole reason I like the caliber.

To me 10mm and .40 are for carrying outside the home, but still fine for the home, just not the best.
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best home defense is a AR!
 
Gunfu_Blaster.45 said:
You can find Chrono data on .40 and 10mm and see yourself.
For CCW the .40 is much easier to conceal, sacrifice a small amount of velocity, but in an easier to grip frame. Although, a single stack 10mm( like a 1911 5") would have some benefits over all other cartridges, as someone else pointed out.
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I don't disagree with your assessment here, a short barrel 10mm has a small advantage over a .40 with the same barrel length, but not enough difference to make a difference.

The benefit of 9mm over 10mm in a carbine is that overall weight will be less in high capacity carbines. Let's say for example a 30 round carbine with 6 spare mags will be considerably heavier than a 9mm.
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Considerably more powerful too. This is the age old firepower vs mobility argument. If I'm going to carry a PCC that's already got limitations compared to a true rifle like .223 or 7.62x39, I may as well get the most thump out of the projectile and 10mm from a 16 inch barrel has much more thump than 9mm does from any barrel length.

40s&w carbine I think would be better than a 10mm one. The projectiles lose their potential after what 40sw is capable of out of longer barrels. I don't want fragmenting ammo for the intended purpose. I want heavier and bigger bullets for more momentum. They penetrate better and carry their velocities more over long ranges.
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Don't use hollow points then.
 
@jmr40 said earlier that 10mm is the new .357 Mag for those who want a semi auto and not a revolver and he's very much on point with that. When you consider that 10mm has its own .38 Special in the form of .40 S&W, that dynamic is unparalleled in the semi auto world and while .45 has an ACP and a Super, the .45 Super is about as easy to find as .45 GAP ammo is and costs twice as much as 10mm ammo does.

And I don't want to turn this into a .40 vs .45 ACP discussion, but factory .40 is cheaper than factory .45 ACP and more powerful and available in smaller frame pistols.

The dynamic of being able to run .40 in a 10mm (which most 10mm's seem to do just fine) means that even when there is no 10mm ammo to be had, .40 can be used, much like .38 in a .357 revolver. This allow the use of 10mm in a full size pistol for open woods carry and a subcompact .40 for concealed carry on the mean streets. More comparisons between the .38/.357 and .40/10 are the projectile weight ranges are similar, yet at the higher end the 10mm can shoot a heavier bullet than .357 and personally, I do not like 180gr or more in a .357 handgun.

I am certainly a fan of 10mm, it has lots of advantages over other calibers, but as others have said in a long enough barrel. Shorten the barrel down to 3 inches and the advantages lessen enough to the point I find other calibers better.

The resistance to 10mm on these forums is largely from an older demographic who saw it come and go in the 80s and certainly the 10yr long AWB didn't help it by making .45 at 10 rounds more sensible, but the AWB has been dead for nearly 20 years, the state magazine capacity laws are on their deathbed thanks to Bruen, and the semi auto market is driven by capacity. 10mm holds more than .45, it costs less than .45, it's more powerful than .45, and has other advantages over .45.

10mm is never going to replace 9mm and I don't think even tag teaming up with .40 to form the Mega Powers can do that, but I see no reason that 10mm won't continue to gain in popularity over the next 20 years.

Contrary to popular opinion, there is enough room in the world for there to be more than just 9mm.
 
Buckeye63 said:
It doesn’t take long to get off the subject ..
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I agree.... I hope we can get back on track and talk about 10mm guns and if there is a market for subcompact and micro compact pistols in 10mm.
I have a Taurus 605 357mag (j frame size) many members think that the recoil is not manageable. I like having the power in a small package.
 
TTv2 said:
I don't disagree with your assessment here, a short barrel 10mm has a small advantage over a .40 with the same barrel length, but not enough difference to make a difference.

Considerably more powerful too. This is the age old firepower vs mobility argument. If I'm going to carry a PCC that's already got limitations compared to a true rifle like .223 or 7.62x39, I may as well get the most thump out of the projectile and 10mm from a 16 inch barrel has much more thump than 9mm does from any barrel length.

Don't use hollow points then.
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I was referring to hardcasts. 10mm are at the edge of deformation and fragmenting at their rated velocities, ,45 hardcast can be pushed to the same velocities or slightly higher but with the heavier weight, a lot more power.
 
When comparing 40 to 10mm there is about 250 fps difference in velocity when using the same bullet weight and design. Now of course when you shorten the barrel length in both cartridges you are going to lose velocity. The question is will you reduce the velocity more in the 10mm than you do in the 40. And if it deletes the velocity advantage all together. @Buckeye63 was suggesting adding a subcompact and/or micro compact 10mm to the available options. I like small guns also.
 
WisBorn said:
When comparing 40 to 10mm there is about 250 fps difference in velocity when using the same bullet weight and design. Now of course when you shorten the barrel length in both cartridges you are going to lose velocity. The question is will you reduce the velocity more in the 10mm than you do in the 40. And if it deletes the velocity advantage all together. @Buckeye63 was suggesting adding a subcompact and/or micro compact 10mm to the available options. I like small guns also.
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I own a LCR357…..My brother will not own a 357 with a barrel less than 6 inches
But the 2 inch & 3 inch barreled 357’s outsell the 6 inch 2 to 1 …
 
The day I can routinely pick up 10mm casings at the range, is the day I will seriously look at getting a semi-auto handgun. I would 1st prefer a revolver in 10mm. And mainly as a range gun. I try to keep my HD guns as the ones my wife can shoot also. Otherwise it may only be half good for HD.
 
TTv2 said:
Well, the 10mm can fit in .357 sized revolvers, Ruger makes a GP100 in 10mm, but they've yet to try and cram it into the SP101, I guess the SP is too small. Point is that I'm fine with 10mm Auto in a GP100 or 686 size revolver, but go up to N frames and the Redhawk and I'm out, not unless it's in 10mm Magnum.

When it comes to revolver caliber, frame size matters, but don't mistake that to mean 10mm is a solution in search of a problem.
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Ruger has had a Blackhawk convertible in 10/40 that was offered through Lipseys a little while ago. I think it weighs in around 45-48 ounces. With adjustable sight, I think it could be a good range gun.

Hopefully they would offer it again.
 
I often see, and have engaged in, talk about the velocity losses associated with shorter barrels, and how they may negate the benefits of such and such cartridge over a shorter relative cartridge. Three points.

1. This is a fair argument if someone is talking about adding a new cartridge to their lineup. If someone was going to buy a short barreled 10mm as their first 10mm, but had no intentions of going further and buying more 10mm guns, I think it would possibly be a waste of time and money if the difference in added velocity to the longer and more powerful, not to mention much more expensive, cartridge is negated by a short barrel. If someone is already invested in 10mm, it makes perfect sense as it did for me. I don't care about 40 S&W, but can load my 10mm to those velocities if desired. So I prefer to avoid adding another cartridge even if what I am shooting is a bit more expenssive.

2. 10mm is really the type of cartridge I'd only recommend to a hand/reloader. The factory ammo you mostly get is pretty poor regarding velocity. But you really need to test multiple hand loaded and factory loaded ammo in a shorter gun to see what self-defense ammo is optimal. I like AA#9 loads because they pack a wallop. But last time I shot them from my XDM Elite with a short barrel I could see a fair amount of unburned powder residue on the gun. I suppose this is true of any cartridge, but the cost/quality ratio on 10mm makes it a bit more of a concern unless you are rolling in money.

I never considered 10mm seriously until I started loading my own stuff.

3. You can't make a target deader. When considering a SD cartridge, gun, and barrel length, it's far more important to consider the intended use. "Will this effectively stop a drugged up 250 lb man, or the largest animal threat I am going to encounter in my area?" If yes, don't overthink it too much if it makes more sense to stick to one cartridge and consolidate in that regard. 50 fps is unlikely to make a real difference in the outcome of a bad situation.

Personally I chose a small 10mm for my “more potent” SD gun because it holds more ammo than the same sized 45, the ballistics of the 10mm can do what I require of a SD cartridge, I avoided buying a 40 S&W which I’m not against but don’t actually need, and any loss of efficiency in terms of velocity is negated by the fact that I’m confident the gun and chosen ammo will get the job done if I hit my target where intended.

If I’m going to a place where a threat may be harder to take down, I choose a longer barrel, and/or a more powerful cartridge. I think we overthink this stuff and worry about small number differences that ultimately mean nothing to the end result.

But I get it, it’s the fun of the discussion. ;)
 
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Excellent post @460Shooter !!!
The truth of the matter is I don't need a 10mm for any other reason than capacity and I would like to try one. I have had the conversation with @WrongHanded that the G20 size guns are a better choice than G29 to get an advantage from the 10mm over other platforms as I don't reload.
Stay safe.
 
460Shooter said:
I often see, and have engaged in, talk about the velocity losses associated with shorter barrels, and how they may negate the benefits of such and such cartridge over a shorter relative cartridge. Three points.

1. This is a fair argument if someone is talking about adding a new cartridge to their lineup. If someone was going to buy a short barreled 10mm as their first 10mm, but had no intentions of going further and buying more 10mm guns, I think it would possibly be a waste of time and money if the difference in added velocity to the longer and more powerful, not to mention much more expensive, cartridge is negated by a short barrel. If someone is already invested in 10mm, it makes perfect sense as it did for me. I don't care about 40 S&W, but can load my 10mm to those velocities if desired.
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I've heard this several times on THR for 10mm, but not for 357. It seems like 357 in anything less than 4" barrel would have a very similar problem with unburned powder or unrealized potential.

It seems like the better solution is to increase projectile size (200 gr. lead JHP or a fancy copper solid the same size) so you are still using the advantages of the longer case instead of downloading to "special" velocities.
 
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