Charlie98
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TBH... you and I agree on pretty much everything... except the marketing part.
Somebody give me the skinny on 6.5 Creedmoor
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TBH... you and I agree on pretty much everything... except the marketing part.
Nature Boy
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I did the same thing a few weeks ago, with similar effect…..with a .223
If you ask any ammo mfr. what the most common hunting calibers are used today, they will tell you 30.06, .270 and .308.
Now suppose your are up'd north hunting and you drop your rifle and have to get extra ammo to site in again. How hard is it to find any but the 3 cals. mentioned above? Extremely hard. Been there, done that. Thank God he was shooting an 30.06
Now suppose your are up'd north hunting and you drop your rifle and have to get extra ammo to site in again. How hard is it to find any but the 3 cals. mentioned above? Extremely hard. Been there, done that. Thank God he was shooting an 30.06
See! See! THATS what its for!
Best use ever!
My experience with factory creedmoor rifles is that they've been uncommonly consistent in their accuracy.
I've had at least five and none of them shot larger the minute of angle, couple of shot closer to half, with hand loads that are closer to factory ammunition than anything custom.
Couple the good accuracy with a 9 to 11 lb rifle and a brake and it's really easy for shooters to make hits.
A "Fun" thing the 6.5s have over the smaller rounds.... in my mind anyway...... is when you do make a good hit on a reactive target, you're rewarded with more noise and target movement than you are with a smaller bullets.
Thats probably very true in really out of the way places, availability of the "classics" was one of the things to consider when suggesting cartridges to folks locally, but its not universally true, not anymore anyway.
None of those were commonly available here during the last shortage....infact getting any of the common hunting rounds was exorbitant or impossible.
I was buying, bullying, and scrounging 30-30 components to make rounds for our group of friends and relatives, and most of the time they only got 5 or 10 each.
I loaded .243, 30-06, and .270 even tho i didnt own any rifles so chambered at the time.
Another of our group did .308 and .223. Also unavailable.
There were always FRESH boxes of CM on the shelf for about 1/2 what plain box of .270 or 06 would cost.
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In all honesty I don't have any experience with 6.5 Creedmore but I suggested a man I work with check it out a couple of weeks ago. He asked me what I thought about a Remington 700 .30-06 he was thinking about buying. I asked him what he wanted it for. He said for him & his daughter (she is about 14 I think) to take out & shoot. He said they might get into hunting later but for right now he wanted a bolt action for the 2 of them to shoot. I told him he might be better off with a .308 due to ammunition availability but while I didn't have any experience with it he should check out 6.5 Creedmore. It is easier to find than anything but .308 & .223/5.56 & I believed it would be easier on her shoulder than .308 or .30-06.
One of these days I'd like to get a rifle chambered for it to mess with but seems like there is always another gun that I want.
One of these days I'd like to get a rifle chambered for it to mess with but seems like there is always another gun that I want.
A good point. You can add 9.3x62 and .375H&H to that list here in Europe (and in Africa), they're common and available pretty much everywhere. Recently I've been hosed with .35Whelen because once the US imports dried out, the only factory ammo has been 250gr Norma Oryx and that's it - and only a handful of gun stores stock even that. You can roll your own, of course, which doesn't help when you've traveled to a hunting location, lost or shot out your ammo and need more NOW.
The 6.5CM craze is here too (some call Finland the 51st US state, trends arrive here fast) and at the moment it's pretty easy to find a decent selection of ammo even in rural areas. Which is absolutely great; quite a few small gun stores are run by proverbial fudds and if they've realized it sells, there's definitely some kind of a transition going on. .308 is still the king and .30-06 very common but a few boxes of 6.5CM is a common sight even in store shelves the sticks.
horsemen61
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I love my 6.5 Creedmoor and for me it’s perfect for what it does for me!
Fit properly in 06 length actions and shoot slightly heavier VLD type bullets from the standard chamber!....Kinda like a long Creedmoor
Sorry, just reread that and the similarity to the CM vs x55 comparison popped into my head.
You gotta go big to really beat a hot loaded .264 with a long throat and a fast twist. Mine had a regular throat and would still hit 3300 with RL33 and 140ELDs
This would be the case in northern Wisconsin and probably most of the UP. Old folks live up there. Don't go up there and try and change how things have always been done...... (I have hundreds of relatives up there)
InTheSwamp
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Gtscotty
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Doubt it, which ammo manufacturers did you ask?
Here's the ranked list of online rifle ammo sales for 2022, from Backfire tv.
- 22LR
- 223 Remington
- 6.5 Creedmoor
- 300 Blackout (tied for fourth)
- 30-06 Springfield (tied for fourth)
- 300 Win Mag
- 6.5 PRC
- 308 Winchester
- 7mm Rem Mag
- 22-250
- 7mm-08
Very easy for me to believe that .270 doesn't even make the list, although I'd expect a comprehensive list to have .308 and 6.5 right near the top.
I believe Thomasss was specifically talking about hunting calibers. The volumes in recreational (and competitive) target shooting are huge compared to hunting, which the sales and manufacturing figures reflect. I can easily blast away hundred rounds of .223 during a range session whereas my annual hunting ammo round count consists of about a dozen or two shots "fired in anger" + maybe a couple of hundred more for sighting in and practise. Sadly, many hunters don't practise much at all, and a single box of 20 rounds can last 2-3 years.
That's a massive difference.
I believe Thomass was referring to walking in and buying a box off the shelf in his area not online sales...
InTheSwamp
Member
Not that the whole conversation was meaningful or relevant anymore, but where in that page? I failed to see any data on hunting specific ammo sales figures. Are you sure you didn't misinterpret something now? The list you copied here is, according to the page:
"Most Common Bolt-Action Rifle Cartridges (By rifle chambering options)
This method of determining what’s most popular is to look at about 60 different models of rifles, and see what percentage of the rifles have each chambering as an option."
Actual sales figures for each caliber from major manufacturers would contain relevant information, this is just a list of available chambering options of a number of different bolt rifles. Not even of rifle sales figures, much less ammunition. Much like the "Hottest rifle cartridges" -list has been combined from number of google searches (SIC!) for each caliber name.
So please. You've made your point clear, you'd like 6.5CM to be here to stay and while it probably will, using this kind of "data" to "prove" it is more of a disservice to lots of people who might consider a rifle chambered in it but think twice because of the flood of ridiculous claims seen supporting it on discussion forums. And as I've already stated a couple of times, simply not to be mistaken for the people making them.
Much like I'm reluctant to mention that I have a Glock and collect AR:s (well, M16:s) anymore. Fanboys have stigmatized the whole topic with their fanaticism, as is currently happening with 6.5CM. If that hasn't happened already. All that manurebombing has done more damage to its reputation than years of experience can build. I've suggested 6.5CM to a number of people during last few years and I get "Yeah, but that'd make me look like a total [expletive]" a lot.
I wonder why.
InTheSwamp
Member
Yes, it is, the availability of some bolt rifles in said caliber as stated in sales brochures. Not the sales figures of hunting ammo in each caliber, which would be quite a bit more informative and state at least something concrete for the discussion at hand. Let's not be fooled by an equivocation fallacy or come up with one ourselves, shall we.
Thank you.
In 2020 and 21 30.06 and .270 Win was not a problem anywhere I was hunting. .308 was a little harder to find.
Cabela's had plenty of those 3 cal., but then there's are not a Cabela's around every corner.
horsemen61
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Well I enjoyed this thread but after several pages of mud slinging and whatnot I believe it will be locked so in closing OP I Believe a 6.5 Creedmoor will do everything you need it to do on the size game you are after remember a Well placed shot with a smaller Cartridge is superior to a bad placed shot with a larger cartridge
Also as a Fan of several 6.5’s starting with the 6.5 Creedmoor I have seen some people treat it like it does have mystical powers and use it in situations it shouldn’t be used is it great for ringing steel at 800 yards yes do I think you should turn around and try to kill a Bull Elk the next day at 6,7,800 yards with it No I don’t remember use the right tool for the job and you shouldn’t have any problems Finally to The Op we Live in a day and era Where Great Bullets abound and Ammo is better than it ever has been so if I were targeting game I would use a premium bullet such as a Barnes,Nosler Accubond,Federal Terminal ascent, Hornady CX or ELDX TO NAME A FEW
Also as a Fan of several 6.5’s starting with the 6.5 Creedmoor I have seen some people treat it like it does have mystical powers and use it in situations it shouldn’t be used is it great for ringing steel at 800 yards yes do I think you should turn around and try to kill a Bull Elk the next day at 6,7,800 yards with it No I don’t remember use the right tool for the job and you shouldn’t have any problems Finally to The Op we Live in a day and era Where Great Bullets abound and Ammo is better than it ever has been so if I were targeting game I would use a premium bullet such as a Barnes,Nosler Accubond,Federal Terminal ascent, Hornady CX or ELDX TO NAME A FEW
Varminterror
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He kind of has a point, bear with me… Along comes the 6.5 in PRS, then they discover that necked down to 6mm gets the good with less recoil, then figure out barrel life isn’t as good any more, then figure out that longer cases based on the 6BR (Dasher, BRA, etc), got them mostly there with better barrel life…….
In fairness, remember why the little 6’s were NOT popular for PRS until ~5-7yrs ago (half of the life of PRS, which is still young in the sport of tactical/practical/sniper matches) - until Magnetospeed brought out their target flashers, there were a LOT of points being left on the table to shoot any 6mm cartridge, let alone 22, even shooting 6 creeds. I still remember challenging “no calls” on targets I know I punched with my 6 creed, and cussing when I was spotting and could see target splash for others misses - which would have indicated my misses too, IF I had missed… but these tiny battery tubes and 3m velcro eliminated those issues, and 6mm’s (and 22’s) almost immediately came to the forefront.
Guys knew about the little engines that could like the BR, Dasher, etc, but there was too much penalty losing points which couldn’t be confirmed until target flashers became standard equipment for all targets beyond 700.
Varminterror
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I’ll answer this directly - because so many hateful people choose to sit back and call anyone shooting a cartridge they don’t like a “total [expletive]” a lot.
As much time as I spend with rifleshooters and hunters around the country, I’ve yet to encounter this swarm of 6.5 Creed fanboys wearing skinny jeans and manbuns…
BUT…
Everywhere I go, whether it’s gunshops, online forums, social media groups, or public ranges, hell, even the cattle sale barn, there’s commonly some crotchety old hag who has the same dusty boxes of ammo sitting on the shelf from 30+ years ago - but who fancies himself a real shooter - who wants any excuse he can find to bitch about 6.5 creed fanboys…
So I can tell you - with no wondering - which group of fanboys, or rather anti-fan haters, actually exists.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Perception is a funny thing and myths are easily born but damned near impossible to kill. Maybe the reason I never see or hear it is because it doesn't exist.
It all reminds me of the guys riding import bikes whining about the Harley guys giving them a hard time. All I ever heard was the whining, never what they were whining about. I heard good-natured ribbing that always exists between friends but never saw or heard the kind of malicious harassment they were whining about. I've heard WAY more import riders deriding Harley's than the other way around. I always liked a variety of bikes but rode a Harley and just smiled and nodded, no whining involved.
I didn't get much (none) traction asking about 6.5 CM for hunting, so will try it again with a different tack.
OP asked about it's use for hunting. 90% of what followed was about long distance targets, which to me are two different things. Have been doing some research on terminal ballistics as relates to hunting, and one thing comes to the fore. Speed kills. According to some, the ideal impact for most soft point hunting bullets is going to be in range of 3000 fps down to 2600 fps. After that, it takes special soft bullets to expand enough to do enough damage to get a quick kill.
One of common complaints I've seen about the 6.5 CM is the number of animals that take a perfect hit right in the boiler room, but not killed DRT. They die, eventually. Knowing that most 140 grain bullets leave muzzle at 2600 fps, they don't have enough punch when they get there to do enough damage to put the animal down where it stands.
If one did use it for hunting, seems to me it ought to be using lighter bullets......like the 120 to 130 range that can be cranked up to at least 3000 fps. Do that and you have the equal of a 243 spitting out 125 grain bullets. That would do it. But only to a distance of 300 yards or less.
Another thing is guys seem to cross thread the idea of being able to hit targets at 500 yards plus with being able to kill game at 500 yards plus. It can and has happened, but for the most part, the terminal ballistics to ethically put down game at that range is lacking. If truth were known, I suspect more game is wounded and lost at that range than harvested. And that isn't good.
OP asked about it's use for hunting. 90% of what followed was about long distance targets, which to me are two different things. Have been doing some research on terminal ballistics as relates to hunting, and one thing comes to the fore. Speed kills. According to some, the ideal impact for most soft point hunting bullets is going to be in range of 3000 fps down to 2600 fps. After that, it takes special soft bullets to expand enough to do enough damage to get a quick kill.
One of common complaints I've seen about the 6.5 CM is the number of animals that take a perfect hit right in the boiler room, but not killed DRT. They die, eventually. Knowing that most 140 grain bullets leave muzzle at 2600 fps, they don't have enough punch when they get there to do enough damage to put the animal down where it stands.
If one did use it for hunting, seems to me it ought to be using lighter bullets......like the 120 to 130 range that can be cranked up to at least 3000 fps. Do that and you have the equal of a 243 spitting out 125 grain bullets. That would do it. But only to a distance of 300 yards or less.
Another thing is guys seem to cross thread the idea of being able to hit targets at 500 yards plus with being able to kill game at 500 yards plus. It can and has happened, but for the most part, the terminal ballistics to ethically put down game at that range is lacking. If truth were known, I suspect more game is wounded and lost at that range than harvested. And that isn't good.
JFrank
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I don’t know anyone that actually hates creedmoor more than those crusty old shop keepers,
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