Somebody give me the skinny on 6.5 Creedmoor

[benEzra]

Not if the 243 has a fast twist.

Serious question: do any affordable rifles come from the factory with fast-twist .243 barrels, and can you get factory .243 ammo optimized for a fast twist, with long, very-high-BC bullets? It does seem that .243 Winchester has a lot of potential for PRS but is held back by 90-100 grain factory loads.

What’s available to a skilled reloader with a custom-barreled rifle might not be available to someone who wants to buy an accurate rifle and ammo at the gun shop and go shoot, which is probably the niche that some of the newer 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges fill. (You can do amazing things with a fast-twist .270 Winchester, too, but those are custom-only.)

 

[JFrank]

Serious question: do any affordable rifles come from the factory with fast-twist .243 barrels, and can you get factory .243 ammo optimized for a fast twist, with long, very-high-BC bullets? It does seem that .243 Winchester has a lot of potential for PRS but is held back by 90-100 grain factory loads.

What’s available to a skilled reloader with a custom-barreled rifle might not be available to someone who wants to buy an accurate rifle and ammo at the gun shop and go shoot, which is probably the niche that some of the newer cartridges fill. (You can do amazing things with a fast-twist .270 Winchester, too, but those are custom-only.)

The 6 mm Norma (6 br) jumps off the shelf and checks all the boxes, and probably a 6 mm creedmoor if I fella needs mag fed and a bit more speed.

 

[InTheSwamp]

From an engineering POV, it's a very well designed and effective cartridge. From a shooter's POV, it's an effective cartridge that can do what older and more "powerful" cartridges do, with less pain in your shoulders.

Yes, it's overhyped. But the hype tends to be forgiven once is tried for the first time.

 

[Nature Boy]

You jumped on that bandwagon? I never could see the point downgrading the 30-06.

By all means, let’s not leave the venerable ought-six out of the comparison

 

[Varminterror]

By all means, let’s not leave the venerable ought-six out of the comparison

View attachment 1129921

I knew there was a reason I like 300wm so much!

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

By all means, let’s not leave the venerable ought-six out of the comparison

View attachment 1129921

Or the 8x57 from which it was copied.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Yep and when the next new wildcat comes along and is marketed well it will start all over again.

It already has. Already got people asking me about 7prc. I'm sure it is a capable cartridge as well , doubt that I'll buy one anytime soon. But I'll admit, I do want to play with a 6.5x300 Weatherby.

 

[Varminterror]

Serious question: do any affordable rifles come from the factory with fast-twist .243 barrels, and can you get factory .243 ammo optimized for a fast twist, with long, very-high-BC bullets?

No, fast twist 243win rifles and heavy, high BC 243win ammo really are not available from any manufacturer.

It does seem that .243 Winchester has a lot of potential for PRS but is held back by 90-100 grain factory loads.

Factory ammo really isn’t a major deciding factor for PRS competition, nor by availability of factory rifles. Even at local levels, most rifles on the line will be custom barreled rifles burning reloaded ammo.

There have been guys which do well with 243win in custom, fast-twist barrels. Todd Williams is one which comes to mind which has done well and been at the Finale many years with a straight 243win.

But…

The case is largely too big. 243win can push our bullets faster than we can use in PRS, well up over the 3200fps speed limit, and it uses about 10% too much powder to do it… AND it burns barrels in about 750-900 rounds. Even the 6 Creed is considered “too hot” by most guys these days, with heavy favor for smaller cases like 6 Dasher, BRA, and GT, pushing barrel life up over 2000-2500 rounds, and still getting 105-115grn bullets up to 2850-2950fps. So 243win just doesn’t really have a home in PRS.

 

[Walkalong]

I shot benchrest with 6mm PPC in mid-late 80's and it wasn't exactly new even back then. How can we thank a several decades more recent cartridge for that? Would you be so kind and elaborate, please? We've heard the 6.5CM being this, that and everything, but a time machine too?

He kind of has a point, bear with me… Along comes the 6.5 in PRS, then they discover that necked down to 6mm gets the good with less recoil, then figure out barrel life isn’t as good any more, then figure out that longer cases based on the 6BR (Dasher, BRA, etc), got them mostly there with better barrel life…….

 

[Anchorite]

From an engineering POV, it's a very well designed and effective cartridge. From a shooter's POV, it's an effective cartridge that can do what older and more "powerful" cartridges do, with less pain in your shoulders.

Yes, it's overhyped. But the hype tends to be forgiven once is tried for the first time.

This. And why not market something that makes one *think* they need it?

 

[3Crows]

I got my (first) 6.5CM by accident. It was the rifle that I bought when I first discovered Walmart was giving away rifles a couple of years ago. A stainless steel, hunting profile barrel Axis II. For $150 and there was a rebate from Savage! The rifle that was priced for $150 was a 6.5CM and not just all of them or any of them but that one specifically. That was the crazy part of the Walmart give aways. It was not a sale but specific to one particular item and discovering the Easter eggs became a game.

But in the course of getting the rifle I discovered that I rather like 6.5CM. Subsequently, so as to fit the stereotype, I have not cut my hair since purchasing and can do a proper man bun. Still have not figured out how to wear my cowboy hats with a bun . So anyways since I could fit the stereotype 6.5CM shooter I went and got a Kimber Hunter in 6.5 and it is the bomb! Light, accurate, no recoil. And .243W is a varmint cartridge .

As to vinyl collections, is there another way to listen to music, I am confused! But Pet Shop Boys, huh, what? It is AC DC all the way !

 

[hq]

As to vinyl collections, is there another way to listen to music, I am confused! But Pet Shop Boys, huh, what? It is AC DC all the way !

Like with firearm calibers, I don't discriminate any music as long as it makes my foot tap. Even Wagner and Bruckner do. And as far as doing things the hard way is concerned, I still use my trusty Michell GyroDec turntable just like I use a bunch of bolt action rifles and even have manually cranked windows in some of my vintage cars. The Swiss army originally classified nostalgia as a mental disorder, you know...

 

[Charlie98]

No, I didn't and you misunderstood my initial point. I said I never hear or see the kind of hype and marketing that people are bitching about. Only the bitching. Every bit of complaining and "hating" I see, including in this very thread and every other I've ever seen, is from people who clearly don't understand the cartridge's intended purpose.

There's CFE223 and CFEBLK too, so what???

I don't think I did... but whatever. Marketing is more than printed and radio ads, marketing also includes putting out products intended for a certain audience. CFE223 and BLK are another example of this. I don't think anyone is complaining about the marketing, we're simply having a discussion.

OK, I'll bite... what is the 'intended purpose' of the 6.5CM? I think I know, but you straighten me out...

 

[InTheSwamp]

It's not marketing, it's Mechanics.

 

[JFrank]

I'll bite... what is the 'intended purpose' of the 6.5CM? I think I know, but you straighten me out..
Long range target shooting of course..

 

[Charlie98]

Long range target shooting of course..

Well... and that's what I thought... but I've been wrong before.

 

[3Crows]

Like with firearm calibers, I don't discriminate any music as long as it makes my foot tap. Even Wagner and Bruckner do. And as far as doing things the hard way is concerned, I still use my trusty Michell GyroDec turntable just like I use a bunch of bolt action rifles and even have manually cranked windows in some of my vintage cars. The Swiss army originally classified nostalgia as a mental disorder, you know...

There are cars without a window crank handle ? In America, we do not drive cars anyways, well, I have heard some Easterners even drive those electric things but out here there is no charge infrastructure nor extension cords long enough nor electric grid to run a station much west of the big river. On a somewhat serious note, the Swiss Army might have been on to something there. I do think excessive nostalgia is detrimental to mental health and leads to the "conspiracy" syndrome, like a gateway drug to deeper mental aberrations. As in apparently 6.5CM is a conspiracy to obsolete other mid caliber cartridges.

In nearly every retail store I go to, nearly 25% of the total on shelf stock of ammo is 6.5CM, an entire counter of 6.5CM and everything else is sharing a counter. Maybe it is a conspiracy, damn Hornady !

 

[hq]

As in apparently 6.5CM is a conspiracy to obsolete other mid caliber cartridges.

Nah. Providing that this isn't yet another short-lived craze that aren't by far unheard of in firearms industry, it'll end up among a plethora of other established cartridges on gun store shelves everywhere. We'll just have to wait and see, and hope for the best. With some luck, even the fanboys eventually grow up and no longer feel the need to post selfies of themselves in 6.5CM-print underwear in every thread they come across.

 

[JFrank]

Ask any barrel manufacturer what the most popular bore is..I’ll bet 6.5 ( guessing)
Interestingly though I recently ordered a 6 mm barrel from Krieger and was told the lead time was 14 months, so I asked how often do they run 6 mm barrel ? He replied he has two guys that do 6mm full time, every day.
I didn’t bother asking about the 6.5

 

[tark]

We are both partially correct. The 30 Tc is a shortened .308

Does that make the .308 the Grandparent case?? Lol !

 

[mavracer]

Serious question: do any affordable rifles come from the factory with fast-twist .243 barrels, and can you get factory .243 ammo optimized for a fast twist, with long, very-high-BC bullets? It does seem that .243 Winchester has a lot of potential for PRS but is held back by 90-100 grain factory loads.

What’s available to a skilled reloader with a custom-barreled rifle might not be available to someone who wants to buy an accurate rifle and ammo at the gun shop and go shoot, which is probably the niche that some of the newer 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges fill. (You can do amazing things with a fast-twist .270 Winchester, too, but those are custom-only.)

The first gen Ruger Precision Rifle was available in 243 with a 1:7.7" twist and a couple specialty ammo manufacturers load 105 and 107s. But IMHO the introduction of the 6mm Creed put a halt to any further marketing for the 243 in that roll.
The 243 works ok the 6mm Creed just works gooder.

 

[citizenconn]

Winchester releases a powder called 'StaBALL 6.5'? That's not marketing?

My shooting partner picked some of that Staball 6.5 up last week and we chrono-ed some handloads with it against a couple of the other popular powders and it had definite velocity advantages and lower SDs.

Is it still marketing hype if it actually delivers on the hype? I recommend trying it if you handload.

 

[Charlie98]

My shooting partner picked some of that Staball 6.5 up last week and we chrono-ed some handloads with it against a couple of the other popular powders and it had definite velocity advantages and lower SDs.

Is it still marketing hype if it actually delivers on the hype? I recommend trying it if you handload.

I've got half a can of IMR4451, and a full can of H4350 to use up, first...

FWIW, when I first started loading the 6.5CM, I had to pass on any of the 4350's, and went straight to IMR4451... one of the new Enduron powders... because I couldn't find any. I found it was not all it was cracked up to be. Further, I've tried several of the newer handgun powders... and found they require a lot more fine tuning to get a good load out of, vs something 'old' like Unique, and even W231, et al.... so I've kind of gotten away from trying all the 'new and improved' powders, and especially so since, for example, IMR discontinued both their 'color' pistol powders, and the Enduron powders. I don't want to get locked into a powder... and have it become Unobtanium.

Is it marketing hype, even if it still works? Yes. But... I don't blame them, it's good marketing! ...and even better if it delivers.

 

[CraigC]

I don't think I did... but whatever. Marketing is more than printed and radio ads, marketing also includes putting out products intended for a certain audience. CFE223 and BLK are another example of this. I don't think anyone is complaining about the marketing, we're simply having a discussion.

You absolutely did. We're going in circles. I'm going back to my original post. That in every thread about the 6.5CM, we hear/see constant bellyaching about the marketing and hype. Yes, in every single thread I have ever seen, there is bitching about "marketing and hype". Again, I never actually see the marketing or hype that people are bitching about. Only their bitching. I didn't say or imply that there was no marketing. Of course there's marketing, there's always marketing. All I'm implying is that the bitching seems to far outweigh the "marketing and hype". IMHO, if people are tired of "hype", it's probably the nonsensical ranting of ignorant fanboys. In which case, who cares anyway???

OK, I'll bite... what is the 'intended purpose' of the 6.5CM? I think I know, but you straighten me out...

I already covered that in the post you're arguing with.

 

[citizenconn]

I don't know about the intended purpose of the 6.5 CR, but the end result for me has often been generating a lot of smiles from people I take shooting, mostly new(ish) and young shooters (many of them female) who cannot cannot contain their happiness at being able to ring steel at 500+ yards their first time shooting rifles.