.223 for deer

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With respect to the accuracy comment in Post #7: Group size for five shots is not important. Three shots might be, but the most important part of the deal is whether or not the first shot from a cold barrel goes where expected.
 
I have hunted in the south years ago....was somewhat surprised how small the deer were. Nearly all of my hunting is upper midwest, we frequently see 300-400lb corn fed deer.
 
.223 for deer
Alright I know there's a lot of controversy over whether or not a .223 round is adquet for whit-tail deer or not. Well this season I'm planning on using my Mini-14 as I might be taking shots over 50 yards which is what I'm used to when using my Winchester .44mag. The ammo I plan on using is Federal JHP. So basically I'd like some comments on whether or not this round is capable of taking deer? I know shot placement is key with most hunting but if I get a lung instead of heart shot I'd like to know the deer is still gonna go down quickly.
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Probably not.

I wonder where you get the 50 yard limit for your 44 mag? From a rifle a 44 mag is good out to a solid 100 yards. Past that it is difficult to hit because the 44 bullets are about as aerodynamic as tuna cans and trajectory gets very curved. Shooting heavier bullets from Buffalo Bore will make this problem worse, not better and you certainly do not need a bullet heavier than 240 grains for deer.

What you should use in your 44 for max range is these.

Within 100 yards you are far better off with your 44 than any 223, and while the 223 will hit them farther away it won't be especially effective.

So if you're going to hunt within 100 yards use your 44 rifle. If you want to hunt beyond 100 yards it's time to buy a real deer rifle like a 7mm-08 or similar.
 
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No, it's not adequate for any deer.
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Tell that to the two dozen Michigan deer I killed. Tell them they were killed with an inferior cartridge. The smallest deer was 188 pounds dressed.
 
Undoubtedly those that refer to Southern deer as being small MUST be hunting where the deer are overpopulated and underfed. Please,somebody, tell me what you consider to be a big deer that isn't found in the Southern states.
 
Freakshow10mm,just so you know. Mature Alabama whitetail weighing more than 150 lbs. are common. Those 130lb deer you are talking about are taken from overhunted public land where ANY buck with antlers visible above the hair line is fair game. 200lb+ deer routinely come from private land and leases. One particular Alabama buck(taken in Blount county) by a personal friend of mine,weighed(in the round) 360lbs on a certified scale. It's nose measured 4'' across. He told me he didn't know how big it was when he shot it because it was in a bachelor group of 5 that all looked the same. The 8pt rack wasn't spectacular so he didn't report it to the state. It is now mandatory to report bucks taken and their weight to the state conservation department.
 
200lb deer up here is a small deer for the area. This is both on private land and public land. Wild, free ranging deer not grown domesticated pets with feeders and food plots.
 
I wonder where you get the 50 yard limit for your 44 mag? From a rifle a 44 mag is good out to a solid 100 yards. Past that it is difficult to hit because the 44 bullets are about as aerodynamic as tuna cans and trajectory gets very curved. Shooting heavier bullets from Buffalo Bore will make this problem worse, not better and you certainly do not need a bullet heavier than 240 grains for deer.
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I'm an optics guy and I don't have a scope on my .44. I don't doubt that it is capable up to 125 with the right load but if all I can see is a "speck" through my irons I think that's taking more of a chance at shot placement than using the .223. I could use my Remington 710 .30-06 but I've yet to find a load it likes so shots are for the most part unpredictable.
 
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One particular Alabama buck(taken in Blount county) by a personal friend of mine,weighed(in the round) 360lbs on a certified scale. It's nose measured 4'' across.
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That's honestly a tough one to believe (not saying it isn't true).
 
Yes I know. I didn't believe it either when my friend's brother first told me about it. I changed my mind after talking directly to the hunter (and seeing the mounted head) that bagged it and learning where it was weighed and by whom.
 
jimmyraythomason said:
Yes I know. I didn't believe it either when my friend's brother first told me about it. I changed my mind after talking directly to the hunter (and seeing the mounted head) that bagged it and learning where it was weighed and by whom.
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was this deer allowed to run ANYWHERE or was it kept penned up with the other "cows" in a feed lot:rolleyes:


Here in Arkansas a free range deer that dressed out over 150 would be considered HUGE.


interesting reading
Montana's deer body-weight record whitetail weighed 275 pounds, according to Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks. The record dressed mule deer was 340.

The heaviest 4.5-year-old-plus whitetail from Texas' Hill Country from 1954 through 1999 weighed just 141 pounds and was taken in 1994.

The heaviest Nebraska whitetail on record was 287 pounds field dressed (about 355 pounds live weight).

The biggest whitetail from New York state weighed 286 pounds field-dressed.

Georgia - which surprised me - had a record field-dressed buck of 355, but then I read further and found out this was the offspring of stock imported from Wisconsin by a hunt club there.

The world record for years weighed 354 pounds and was taken in upper Michigan.

Maine had a monster whitetail that field-dressed at 355 pounds.

There were old reports of a 386-pound dressed whitetail out of Wisconsin taken in 1924, but the weighing wasn't officially witnessed.

Another big Wisconsin buck was taken in 1941 and weighed 371 pounds, but it also wasn't officially witnessed.
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It was definitely free range and was killed close to 20 years ago. It helps to realize that honeysuckle,greenbrier and a host of wild foods remain green year round here. A good mast year produces so many acorns it sounds like rain when they drop. Dogwood trees are in abundance as are crab apples,wild muscadines and LOTS of persimmons. Lack of food is "usually" not a concern. In fact there was such an abundance of wild foods this past season that our green fields went "almost" untouched. Granted,this is not a typical Alabama buck but EVERY year someone takes a 235lb +/- buck from our or the surrounding area. BTW: a 4 year old Alabama deer that only weighs 130lbs is called a doe. Deer size does drop off dramatically below Montgomery.
 
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360lb Alabama deer?.....better contact your state DNR, must be a new state record they haven't heard about. Your friends deer is better than a 110lbs over the high end listed on this website.


https://www.outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/what/Mammals/Ungulates/wtd.cfm

"Female deer, or does, typically are smaller framed and weigh less than male deer, or bucks, of the same age. At shoulder height, a doe is about 36 inches tall, with bucks of similar ages being slightly taller. In Alabama, weights of healthy adult does may range from less than 90 to more than 140 pounds, while healthy adult males may range from 140 pounds to more than 250 pounds, depending on age and habitat quality. At birth, most fawns weigh four to eight pounds and stand about 18 inches tall at the shoulder.
 
Rembrandt,did you not read the part where I said it wasn't reported. Records are only for "reported" specimens. None of what you posted ,while interesting,has ANY bearing on this deer.
 
This is like when some poster says they have a rifle that shoots (insert unbelievable figure) groups "all day long" bone stock only to find out thier claim is better than benchrest world records
 
Krochus,while that was expected,and yes I do appreciate a little good natured ribbing,it still doesn't change the facts. When I asked Jimmy,(his name is Jimmy Phillips BTW) why he didn't have it officially documented,he said it never occured to him because the antlers were "normal size" and thought only the antlers were of interest to officials.
 
To put things in perspective....

In November, 1926, Carl Lenander Jr. dropped a monstrous Minnesota buck with a single shot. The field-dressed deer weighed 402 pounds. Conservation Department officials estimated its live weight at 511 pounds. No heavier white-tailed deer has ever been recorded.
 
forget about 223/5.56 if your itching to kill a deer with an AR get a 6.5grendel upper and you'll drop them where they stand
 
I eat red berries from dogwood; got that tart taste to it, specially love in preserves in cakes etc…
 
You've read the opinions. Now observe a real photo.

KVL2ndmuley.jpg

My daughter shot several hundred prairie dogs the previous summer with this rifle. That means she understood the factors of sight picture, breath control, and trigger control to nail a COKE can sized target at 150 yards and beyond. It was no trick to drop this muleywith a neck shot at approx 100 yards.

Winchester SUPER X 64 grain bullet hits HARD and does not fly apart.

The hunter of forest and foothills is BETTER served by 35 Remington, 30-30, or 32 Special. These cartridges have already been proven for big deer at typical woods distances, say approx 125 yards or so.

In my opinion, the .223 is best left to expert riflemen (women) who keep their shooting within 125 yards or so. An amateur hunter armed with .223 is a problem waiting to happen.

This second photo shows her with a 300 lb muley taken with 30-30 and 170 grain bullet. This heavier bullet at moderate velocity will kill well at a multitude of shot angles.

TR

Kforkybuck-1.jpg
 
Lotsa difference between the bullets available in today's world, compared to a few decades back. I got started in the hotshot .22 world when they were strictly varmint guns. Generally, folks used bullets of 50 to 55 grains which were specifically designed to blow up inside a jackrabbit or coyote.

Now? Mucho R&D has happened. There are hunting bullets around 60 to 70 grains which have somewhat heavier jackets and do the controlled expansion thing.

I wouldn't use a .223 on "serious" deer, but where deer generally dress out around a hundred pounds or so? I don't see why not.

IOW, tailor the cartridge to the game; use common sense and pick your impact spot carefully.
 
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