This video scares me. The power of the 22LR.

If I saw the vid right, it was a headshot. Does it every time. All you have to do is nick someones heart.....

Then again some people survive three 7.62x39 holes in the chest and walk away. Depends on your luck I guess.

Might just be the first gangbanger who ever aimed. That is a bad development.

No it was a heart shot.

I think what the video was showing was that he would have to aim at the officers head in order to hit the officer in the heart. The prosecutor was just trying to prove that there was no mistake but that the kid was trying to kill the cop.

The .22LR has racked up a very high body count, its not a toy.

Sadly thats the most prevelent round used in school shootings.

What's outrageous is both murderers were sentenced to life without parole.

The murder happened just down the road from my sister's old home in the Mesa Margarita neighborhood of my hometown in Oceanside, CA. Both my sisters worked for O'side PD at one time.

We all attended O'side High School back in the 70's. We had ethnic gang problems back then, with gang fights at OHS and Jefferson Jr. High, that the rest of the country began to experience in the late 1980s with the crack wars.

Shawn Dodson said:

What's outrageous is both murderers were sentenced to life without parole.

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It's coming down to a matter of simple economics. A death penalty case from conviction, appeals, to enacting the sentence, costs $3-$4 million dollars. Life Long imprisonment costs just under a million.

I wonder how the ballistics evidence will come into play. Ruger 10/22's are one of the most common firearms in the USA.

That's a hell of a shot from a standing position, at night, with a 10/22 carbine. Either he was incredibly lucky, or had practiced a considerable amount (and more than likely was using the wall next to him as a rest).

If the officer was struck in the heart...then where the hell was his body armor?

Prime example of the need to have a patrol carbine and the training to be able to use it at intermediate range.

That's a hell of a shot from a standing position, at night, with a 10/22 carbine

From the length of the mag in the vid, more like spray and pray.

The no vest question...armpit entry, there's a hole in the vest there.

Tilos

It's coming down to a matter of simple economics. A death penalty case from conviction, appeals, to enacting the sentence, costs $3-$4 million dollars. Life Long imprisonment costs just under a million.

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And a simpler economic solution would involve a rope a gallows and a carcass left on the street corner for other "bangers" to see.

You've got to fight evil with real force, it's all they understand and life in prison is only going to add to the banger myth.

But we're an enlightened society too civilized to take any real action.

I think all violent criminals should be ground up and made into hog chow pellets, using inmate labor. Give 'em something to think about. It's absolute insanity the way we coddle criminals in this day and age. No wonder crime is becoming a preferred career choice for many youths.

Regards to huntsman and rondog for lamenting liberal, eggheaded concepts like "due process".

Any good keyboard commando knows that summary execution by law enforcement personnel is the way to keep the homeland secure.

Obviously the threat of hard labor/prison/ etc doesnt' work very well. If you have ever been in a prison I wouldn't describe it as a coddling type of environment. This crap is has always happended and will continue regardless of what type of punishment is assigned to the crimes. The gap between the wealthy and poor provides an intense catalyst to further violence. The worlds population is increasing exponentially, and crime will follow.

I've mentioned on this forum before, when we slaughter cattle in fall, they are dispatched with a .22lr shot to the head.

A 2000lb animal instantly dead. Granted it is the most lethal place to be shot, but it is illustrative that the lowly .22 is extremely lethal.

When I was visiting New Zealand (a very ANTIGUN country) in October 2008 a cop was shot and killed with a PELLET GUN! The outrage in the community was over ownership of pellet guns - "why would someone need a pellet gun?!" was the common outcry...

Yes this is an avoidable tradgety where so many factors come into play. War on drugs and a growing government police state, poor economic opportunities of youth, poor school systems, failure to wear body armor by the police, and a failure of the criminal justice system coddling hard core criminals (which encourage more to join the ranks of hardened criminals). These thugs do hard time for a few years after vicious crimes, come out of prison with reputations and skills and are involved in gangs... It's a never ending cycle.

If you have ever been in a prison I wouldn't describe it as a coddling type of environment.

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I disagree. Prison 'coddles' gangers in the respect that it hardens them, they get to work out, make network connections, learn 'tools of the trade' etc. They go away for a few years and come out angrier, more vicious and harder than before going in. And as felons they have zero opportunity for legitimate future gain. So it's no surprise that they are destined for a life of hard crime.

+1 on the rope and gallows for hardened criminals. Spending millions to house these animals for life is part of the failing of our judicial system and collapse of our bankrupting economy...

ishi said:

Regards to huntsman and rondog for lamenting liberal, eggheaded concepts like "due process".

Any good keyboard commando knows that summary execution by law enforcement personnel is the way to keep the homeland secure.

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Nothing wrong with due process as long as we quickly proceed to the justice phase.

Nothing about this case says criminal, this gang declared war on the LEO and the rule of law, punishment needs to be swift and lethal as was his shot.

^Well said.

Justice must be equal for all, or we are no better than those we oppose. The Founding Fathers said of our justice system, "Better 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man goes to prison."
Coddling in prison? Depends what state, and what custody level. Cop killers will be housed in max custody, locked down 24 hours a day, 2 hours solitary rec a week in a space the size of a large living room under three story concrete walls and grate between him and the sky. Food is by nutricians and federal order, not bad, but below school cafeteria standards. Access to medical, education, recreation, hobby craft etc, are determined by fed court order/law, and custody level.
Cost of housing an inmate on the avaerage in AZ is $19,750 per year. We fast tracked our capital punishment system, and are starting to catch up on the backlog, so as to not have the professional politicians, er, I mean professional Death Row inhabitants sucking up dollars. BTW, Death Row is housed like all other max custody, so anyone sentanced to life in prison for a crime that carries capital punishment is likely to be housed in max custody, and the cost of thier incarceration is the same if they were on Death Row.
Beware street justice, and research lynchings. Bad idea. Reform your justice system at the ballot box, and the Congresscritter mail access.

BTW, Death Row is housed like all other max custody, so anyone sentanced to life in prison for a crime that carries capital punishment is likely to be housed in max custody, and the cost of thier incarceration is the same if they were on Death Row.

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I believe the major costs come from the trial.

I think all violent criminals should be ground up and made into hog chow pellets, using inmate labor. Give 'em something to think about. It's absolute insanity the way we coddle criminals in this day and age. No wonder crime is becoming a preferred career choice for many youths.

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I have no love for violent criminals nor the terror they inflict on society.
That said, all trials must be just and impartial.

My condolences to the officers family. Its a true shame indeed.

Whats even better is that there are comments posted on youtube supporting the young thug. Welcome to America. Jeez.

Sad story/ Lucky shot

It is unfortunate that this criminal was able to his target at that range but it was mostly luck. The diagram of point of aim/point of impact is way off. I have probably shot as many if not more 22 long rifle cartridges as anyone on this sight. While it has been a while since I shot silhouette I believe that there was a 6 inch drop from 40 yards to 100 yards. Even if the shooter had zeroed at 300 yards, which I am sure he did not, the drop from 300 to 400 would be far more than 12" which is the approximate difference from head to heart shot. The "sniper rifle" was a 10/22 carbine, not exactly known for its oustanding accuracy. My guess is that since we know he fired several shots, the barrel just kept climbing as he pulled the trigger. The one that got him was probaly aimed well over his head by several feet.

Roscoe wrote:

"I believe the major costs come from the trial."

Yes, and the appeal process. We can be sure there'll be an appeal, and the thought of a reversal & the perp being set free on some technicality is outrageous.

Say what you want about 'street justice'; if that scumbag walks after appeal, I'm hoping he will 'disappear' some dark and lonely night. I'll bet there are some LEOs in his home town that are thinking the same thing.

The shot was from 400 feet not 400 yards. I'm not that great a shot, but 135 yards is not all that far.

Beyond PBR

It seems from their graphic that the POI is several inches below POA.

From the banger's perspective, it was a "head shot." The fact that it found the sleeve hole in the vest is what you would (as the shooter) call a "lucky shot."

They headline it as a "sniper rifle." Good grief. It was a simple target rifle that was probably sighted in for 50-75 yards (accounting for the excessive drop at 400 feet).




Rhetorical Treatments

Meanwhile, we need to be vigilant that the press and the easily frightened don't run away with the bit in their teeth using such rhetoric as "why does anyone need so-and-so?" When someone kills a policeman, that's altogether the wrong question. If you just have to ask "deep and searching" questions, how about we start with "why does anyone need to attack the police?" Going the other way eventually has us questioning the need for rolling pins and glass pints for beer.

There is, in the world of Motorcycle Maintenance, a piece of "Zen" wisdom offered by Bob Pirsig, represented by the Japanese word "mu" which, he explains, means "unask the question." It is appropriate in response to questions where no answer can be correct. ("Do you still beat your wife?" The question itself is an error, and a response of "mu" [unask] is fitting.)

When someone comes at you with the old and tired "why does anyone need a gun?" (or rolling pin, or beer stein), it is proper to respond with "please ask a meaningful question."


Rhetorical poisoning, like calling a target gun a "sniper rifle" can be met head-on with observations like, "why do you drive a high-powered get-away car?" The car they drive -- or one very like it -- has almost certainly been used in a crime at some point, so if one of them is a get-away car, then aren't they all?

Be willing to mess with their attempts to choose the language to frame the debate in their terms. When the question itself is dishonest, ask for an honest question. Help them frame it.