My first Negligent Discharge -hopefully my last

ND could have killed me

That was a very foolish thing to do. Im not going to beat you up over it. I hope you learned from it. I'm def not in the camp where "everyone does it once". Ever since my first gun I've been worried about ND and usually double if not triple check my guns before handling them. I also will check the gun YOU just cleared, after its been handed to me, even if I watched you do it. Its probably OCD I know, but I've purposefully programmed myself to do it.

My only time in proximity to a ND was shooting with a friend of mine, and his brother. My friend was USMC and very familiar with firearms. I, foolishly, assumed his brother was also familiar with guns. We had set up a table with the ammo between us. I was on the left shooting toward 11 oclock he (the brother) was on the other side of the table shooting at 1 oclock. After his first volley he stopped to reload. I was hearing this, not seeing it, as I was focused on my target. As he chambered the round, I felt the heat from the flash and a round zipped by my head. I turned and noticed his finger still in the trigger guard, the weapon now pointed near my knees, and the "OMG" look on his face. Obviously, he did not intend to do it. But in my mind he failed to follow the basic rules of shooting. (Keep finger off trigger until ready to fire, never point weapon at anything you are not willing to DESTROY)

I probably responded incorrectly to the event. I pulled my knife and demanded his gun at knife point. He surrendered the weapon and I removed the entire bolt and handed him back the rest. I had driven 45 minutes to get here and finished my shooting session alone, with his bolt assembly in my pocket. My friend and his brother aruged behind me. My friend later apologised to me for even bringing his brother, it was not his fault, I should have assesed his brother's skills before assuming he knew what he was doing.

Just like a near-miss car accident caused by a foolish driving error should make one a better driver, your accidental discharge should turn you into a better/smarter gun owner.

Now for the what could have happened: my 1st permanent assignment in the USAF was Forbes AFB Ks. my room in the barracks had a patch on the wall, the size of a niclke and waist high, as an AMN, surprizingly I had the room to myself. Turns oud a few months earlier the previous resident had been killed by a ND in the next room, through the wall through the liver, stomach, bounce off ribs and lodge in heart. This was in 1971, the gun was an auto, bought from a pawn shop and with a 9mm reload with a bad rim lodged in the chamber. The empty case was still in the chamber. I got the details from a millitary policeman, who was a patient on the ward I worked on, he was one of the responders.

My "first" negligent discharge would seem to imply you think there might be more ... for your own peace of mind, might want to change that to my "last" or "only" negligent discharge.

On the airport rifle discharge by the African hunter - I don't know what airport he was in when that happened, must have been in Botswana. In the airports I go to (which are numerous) that would land a person in the local hoosegow.

It is a tragic thing anytime a gun goes off unintentially. It happened to a friend of mine about 40 years ago shortly after we graduated from college. It was one week before his wedding. The bullet hit him in the chin which killed him instantly as he was unloading a 1911.

I would guess less than one percent of the people on this forum have experienced an accidental discharge caused by personal neglect to follow basic safety procedures. There is no excuse for it to happen. It is not OK if someone didn't get hurt. It is not something that happens to everybody or even a few of us.

I've done it twice. One was a mechanical failure and the other was me doing pretty much what the OP did with an auto pistol.

But I would caution everyone to be careful about cavalierly throwing around the word "negligent." From my FAQs:

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AD vs ND.

26. An accident is an unintentional event. When a gun is discharged inadvertently it is an accidental discharge. The use of the term negligent discharge has become popular but in my opinion it is a bad idea. Yes, the vast majority of ADs involve negligence on the part of the operator but negligence is a legal term that assigns responsibility. Describing your unintentional discharge as negligent is admitting guilt to any cop or lawyer who happens to be listening. Until I am certain that I am not being charged with a crime or sued in civil court I prefer to not admit guilt.

Smokey in PHX- Must be tough being so perfect. Thanks for your condescending words and attitude. Really helps a lot.

Not every AD is a tragedy. Your friend's certainly was, but most are more embarrassing than tragic.

PS: I bet it's far more than 1%. Jeff Cooper, Skeeter Skelton, and Bill Jordan all experienced ADs (Jordan's was fatal to a fellow BP officer). While it doesn't HAVE to happen to everyone, it certainly CAN happen to anyone. Vigilance, training, care should always reign supreme. But let's not forget that we are humans and humans are not perfect. Well, most of us aren't.

I don't agree with some people saying that it will happen to most gun owners. I do think that everybody can tend to get complacent with clearing a weapon. A prime example was a story from a retired police officer that was shooting a grendel p30 with friends. He racked the slide 3 times to clear the weapon but due to a bad extractor and not visually checking the chamber it discharged as he was handing the gun to his friend. He handed it to him handle first so he ended up shooting himself in the gut point blank range with a 22 magnum. He was in the hospital for a week and almost died.

Personally I keep every handgun in my house loaded. If I pull one out the mag gets dropped, slide racked a couple times, lock it back and visually check chamber. I thank you and the guy above for posting these stories because people will get complacent, it just happens, but these stories will get everyone to think about it the next time they pull out one of their weapons.

Everyone has the right to one ND, the second one is CD (criminal discharge).

"Stored guns are unloaded - HD gun is my GP100 - it is loaded."
This mentality will lead to your future thread about accidental discharge....TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT'S LOADED!

"Everyone has the right to one ND, the second one is CD (criminal discharge)."
No they don't. People who haven't killed someone with a AD/ND or whatever were lucky.

Let's rephrase you're argument..."Everyone has the right to run over a two year old while backing out of the drive way, the second failure to use the rear view mirrors is criminal."

Gun ownership is a Right with a Burden of Responsibility. Unfortunately accidents do happen - they are not the norm. Fatigue, complacency, fear of asking questions, distractions, are all things that could lead to problems along with a lot of other factors.

Regardless...when YOUR finger is on THAT trigger YOU are RESPONSIBLE for the end result.

Unless I missed it, did you ever recover the bullet? Where did it come to rest?

W.E.G. said:

I think you should.

...and the experience should be extra painful.

I'll give you $50 each, and that's more than you deserve.

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You best be joking, people like you make me wonder about everyone(you) equally having the right to own firearms.

On topic
It was completely his fault, but I don't look down on it any more then I would any other accident where a person is to blame. I mean think about it, if someone is hiking(inexperienced) and slips down a mountain and almost but doesn't take some with them, would you say "hey, he screwed up. Never should he climb again". Not likely, nobody intentionally makes mistakes. You brush off, asses your mistake, and train yourself. Just be glad nothing else happened. And as others said, its likely something you won't ever do again cause youll remember what happened and hopefully think twice.

since you didn't shot the TV i think you should sit in from of it and practice, practice, practice and practice again and again how to load/unload the pistol with dummy rounds untill you can do it with your eye close...

1. pick it up
2. safety check (do not pull the trigger) "FIRST remove the magazine" and then rack the slide
3. unload it
4. load it
5. let it down
6.Repeat

I don't know if I'll ever have a AD/ND but we aren't perfect.

Click to expand...

On a long enough timeline we'll all have an AD/ND. My goal is to live a long and prosperous life, but die before I have one.

Stored guns are unloaded - HD gun is my GP100 - it is loaded

Click to expand...

This mentality will lead to your future thread about accidental discharge....TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT'S LOADED!

Click to expand...

I agree.

few years ago I had a ND. I and my brothers were shooting our pistols in the driveway, (rural area) and I had pulled out my Mauser C96. I hadn't fired that gun for quite awhile and it as I was trying to pull open the slide to load it, it slipped and fired! It was already loaded and had been for a couple of years!
Why it fired, I am not sure, I am pretty sure I didn't have my finger on the trigger. I think the hammer was not fully cocked, and pulling open the slide pushes the hammer back, and when I let the slide slip, the hammer fell with enough force to fire the weapon. Fortunately, I was not completely brain dead, and while struggling with the recalcitrant slide, I was keeping it pointed in a safe direction, but it scared the heck out of me!
Why was the gun loaded? I have no idea, it was a collector gun, not one I shot regularly, in fact that was the first time I had the gun out in at least a couple of years. When I got home, I immediately checked all of my guns. I never figured out why I hadn't unloaded the gun after I last shot it, but I do make it a point any more to double check all weapons when I put them up. And I am lot more cautious of that Mauser, than I was before!
Having that one ND made me a lot more aware of just how easy it is to have one, if you get careless. I am far more aware of the need to keep a gun pointed in a safe direction, even when you Know it's empty!

I've had 2, one over 35 years ago with a shotgun that I had purposely pointed straight in the air and fired, thought the chamber was empty but. One just a year ago with a 1911 that I was unloading because I had gotten in my truck and the law in my state is no loaded weapons in the vehicle.Again it was pointed in a safe direction when it went off. You already had one of the basics in that you didn't point it at a person now you have learned a lot more and are a safer person than you were before. Go shooting and enjoy.

glad no one was hurt

i have following questions:

1. do you need to report to police if ND happened? law forbids discharge within city limits, will it be trouble if you don't report it but later police found out due to neighbour report?

2. did it damage your ear? i guess gun fire in a room will cause permantent dearing damage? sometimes i even think if there's an intruder i should wear ear muffs if i have enough time...

I disagree with you on this:

AD vs ND.

26. An accident is an unintentional event. When a gun is discharged inadvertently it is an accidental discharge. The use of the term negligent discharge has become popular but in my opinion it is a bad idea. Yes, the vast majority of ADs involve negligence on the part of the operator but negligence is a legal term that assigns responsibility. Describing your unintentional discharge as negligent is admitting guilt to any cop or lawyer who happens to be listening. Until I am certain that I am not being charged with a crime or sued in civil court I prefer to not admit guilt.

Click to expand...

To me Accidental Discharge would be a weapon going off from falling or mechanical failure. Negligence is implied since he was handling the weapon. Noone got hurt, that was luck. Being a responsible gun owner means taking the responsibility for your actions, good or bad.

"Stored guns are unloaded - HD gun is my GP100 - it is loaded."


This mentality will lead to your future thread about accidental discharge....TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT'S LOADED!

Click to expand...

EXACTLY!

THIS mentality is one of the primary differences between those who have had, or WILL have, a negligent discharge, and those that WON'T.

There is NO SUCH THING as an "unloaded firearm" UNTIL it has been PROPERLY CLEARED by the handler. PERIOD.

It doesn't matter if it is YOUR firearm that you have "never" loaded, OR a firearm from the display case at a gun store. ALL firearms get treated the same, as if they were LOADED, until they are properly cleared and confirmed to be unloaded, by EACH handler.

Failure to treat a firearm as if it were loaded, failure to PROPERLY clear a firearm, and failure to protect the trigger are all negligent precursors that will eventually lead to a negligent discharge. ALL are 100% avoidable with discipline and the appropriate mindset.

I worked in gun shops for 10 years. You wouldn't believe how many chambered guns I have cleared that customers brought to the counter telling me they were unloaded. If you don't go through the basics everytime you pick up a gun you should not ever be able to handle it. I don't care if the guy that handed it to you checked while you were watching you should go through the process again. Why would anyone ever point a gun at a TV and pull the trigger? Lucky you didn't kill someone. Seems like you understand what you did. Time will tell. Personally I think you should lose your gun privilages. Nobody in my family has ever had a ND...Russ

^^^ Oooo, harsh.

A bit harsh is an understatement!
Accidents happen!, It is how we deal with them and learn from them that we learn anything!
If you have never had an accident, it is only because you have learned from the accidents of others. And in my opinion, if you think you will never have an accident, you are being overconfident, and setting your self up for an accident.

Look, *NOVA* made a mistake, he feels bad about, and has been told repeatedly what he did wrong, by helpful people, and how stupid he is by some not so helpful people.
I made a mistake a few years ago in putting up a loaded gun, not realizing it was loaded, and then fumbling around with the thing because I wasn't as familiar with it as I thought.
Others here have also admitted mistakes, I don't think we are all idiots, or hopelessly careless people. We learned from our mistakes. If you are so arrogant to believe you can never make a mistake, then you are not being as safe as you should be.

How many mistakes were made? No disrespect to NOVA here but lets break it down.

Main factor - NOT THINKING / NOT USING MY BRAIN

1. My brain saw the magazine next to the gun - but I had forgotten that the gun came with two magazines.
2. The magazines are painted black. I also had forgotten a decision I had made to have TWO guns ready for home defense in that locker - the revolver and the semi. So my brain tells me the gun has no magazine in it. My brain fails to register there is a magazine inserted! All I'm really thinking about is how much fun it will be to get to the range tomorrow.
3. Dim lighting / impaired vision
4. Lack of experience - it is my first semi-auto pistol

Tired and handling a gun?
Poor lighting and handling a gun?
Can't tell if a magazine is in the firearm.
Has not handled many semi-autos.
Never cleared or checked the weapon. Just picked it up and fired.
Why have a go to gun loaded if you are not comfortable with it?
Why was the trigger pulled in the first place?
Ever been to a gun saftey class? If not then why?
Sorry but I don't understand this brain did'nt see it thing.
I could go on and on. The guy had the balls to tell us about it and said he was ready for the harsh reality of the situation. Hopefully it brings light to some of the novice gun owners on how to handle a gun then the post is helpfull. My Son, Wife, Daughter and anyone handling guns in my home or at the range go through the same process everytime we handle guns. Just like my Father taught me. One must be deligent and complete with this process. If you are not organized when handling a firearm then you should not EVER pick one up. Poor gun handling leads to NDs. Only ND that should ever take place is an equipment malfunction. And if that happens it should go directly to a gunsmith for inspection. Ther are no exception to proper gun handling. I still think NOVA should not handle a firearm. Definately not until he attends several shooting classes....JMHO...Russ