My first Negligent Discharge -hopefully my last

OK, two points, one of which should make you feel at least a bit better:

Colonel Jeff Cooper advocated four basic rules of gun handling, which are oft-quoted and considered pretty inviolable:

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.

4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

According to these rules, you failed to follow #1 at least. Maybe 2 and 4 if you didn't really want to break the sugar bowl or weren't sure you were covering it. But at least you weren't pointing it at anything TRULY important.


Secondly, and this is the part that should make you feel better, is a story that was told by a close friend of the Colonel's.

Jeff had a nice, shiny S & W Mod. 29. One day, in the company of this friend, he was going on about the lovely trigger action that it had. Cocking the hammer, he took careful aim at a gas meter outside his house through the window. I'm sure he was thinking, "Front sight, presss."

BANG!

He drilled the gas meter, right where he was aiming. According to the teller of the story, he sheepishly muttered something about this "happening to OTHER people." The last part of the story was that there was talk of having the plugged meter face bronzed and presented to the Colonel as a trophy.

So...things happen, but they happen to a lot of people. Don't do it again.

Observation #1

The OP, like many, many others out there, either didn't know, or forgot (spaced it, whatever) how to check a semi-auto clear.

step 1. Drop mag.
step 2. Cycle slide and check chamber.

If you skip one of those two steps, or if you do them in the wrong order, you have NOT checked the weapon clear and may very likely be holding a loaded weapon when you are done.

Observation #2

Pulling the trigger to drop the hammer (especially when indoors) is imo. a bad habbit.

My personal rule is that I do not dry fire indoors unless it is for a specific purpose I need to accomplish, and then I am very deliberate and careful (i.e. tripple check, remove ammo. from area, etc...)

Observation #3

For several years, I have studied every ND story I can with great interest (because I want to get the lesson learned and avoid having an ND myself). I am convinced that the #1 root cause is guys playing with guns (i.e. fondling, "training", obsessing over, etc.... whatever you want to call the unnecessary handling).

Observation #4

There are a lot of nice guys on this forum who don't really know you, but none the less are happy to say "don't worry about it" or "don't beat yourself up" or "it happens to everyone eventually" ...

Though I've never had a AD or ND myself, I sympithize with the OPs situation. And while I'm not going to hit a guy when he's down.... I think slapping yourself on the forehead a few times is an appropriate response. Whenever I perform a major screw up in life.... I don't let myself off the hook very easilly as a sufficient amount of self flagulation and trauma goes a long ways towards not making the same mistake again.

Well at least no one was hurt.

The good thing about the ND club is that very few of us do it twice. I had mine many, many years ago and like yours (thankfully) nothing was damaged that could not be easily repaired/replaced. As shameful as this is to say, that incident made me a much safer gun owner.

I guess I'm the exception because the two NDs I've had were both in the last two years. I was REALLY shaken by the second one (the first was a bad sear in a 1911) as it was 100% my fault and I have become a much safer gun owner because of it.

Glad no one got hurt.. let it be a harsh warning

...

I'm sure all the bases of safety have been covered but 2 things..

When you first wake-up is not the_time to handle/play with a new toy i.e. gun..

Second, like it or not, I don't, but when handling a weapon, it's best to have "clear vision" so always put those glasses on first, as this may, well, have let you "see" the loaded mag and bullet rdy to go..

But the worst part -

Well, after the round went off of course the wife woke up, realized almost instantly what I had done - I was in shock and speechless for a minute but managed to stammer that its ok I had an accident but not hurt. She gets out of bed, surveys the damage and in typical New York City GIRL fashion (I married a smart woman)

*she proceeds to inform me that I am the DUMBEST person she has ever met in her entire life! And at the moment I was convinced she was right...

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* Between your reaction and hers - it's been handled


Alert mind and clear vision is a must (chking out any weapon) vs the real deal of being woken up/startled and grabbing one of your HD guns - but ya got to "ID" the target first, no matter.. not to mention "where will the bullet/s go IF ya miss ?

Them is, 2 of the 4, rules of safety, the oath, we all swear by -

Raise your right hand and repeat after me -


Ls

I really dont think age has anything to do with it. Was it caused by him dry firing a loaded weapon? Was is caused by somethig wrong with the gun? There are rules one must follow when handling guns. When I am handling guns at home it is on a bench with a mat. I have very good lighting. Nobody would disturb me. 1 at a time. Organized and in order. Everything has a place and purpose. I would never handle guns when tired or upset. This makes the chance of a ND even lower. Dry firing a gun into an open space is a ND that could never happen to me. I cannot understand what would posess someone to dry fire a gun at a TV, wall, or someothe object aside from maybe a bullet trap or sand bucket. I think following the same routine is paramount when handling firearms. Just my opinion.

Because someone has been handling guns for a longtime it doesnt give them a pass for negligence....Russ

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He was dropping the hammer to put it away he just racked the slide than dropped the magazine. Hes never had a ND before till he unloaded in the wrong order which hes never done before. So I'm guessing you've never made a mistake in you're life. Wonder how it must feel to go through life knowing that you're perfect.

They got four rules because you might make a mistake and break one or two of them... but to hurt someone you have to break just about all of them at the same time. Thats why I hate seeing anyone deliberately break the rules. Ie muzzle control on a empty gun. Drives me nuts getting swept by those "empty" guns.

Relax and take a deep breath and be thankful no one was hurt. Don't sale your guns and go to the range tomorrow and enjoy yourself. Your not the first person to have an AD/ND and unfortunately you won't be the last. If clearing a weapon always always drop the mag first. Ive had semi's for a long time and I stilll to this day drop the mag and rack the slide three times and lock it back on the 4th time. Then I take my trusty ole bore light and look in the chamber. I know its a little over the top but you can never be to care ful when it comes to gun saftey. Keep your head up.

I haven't read ANY of the comments to your original post because I'm sure you've heard it all and I didn't want to influence my own response...

But my immediate, emotional response after reading your post is... you should not own a gun.

YOU are the example that every liberal, anti-gun fanatic will use to support their bs, and unfortunately, you are giving them ammo :|

The ONLY reason you won't be in the news... is because you didn't actually kill anyone.

Why the F are you pulling the trigger with a loaded magazine, even if you pretend to think you know the chamber is empty? What are you trying to shoot at the tv?

Seriously bro... I'm glad nobody was hurt, but... I was a newbie a few years ago and I have never done anything that stupid... maybe because I did a lot of reading and education before I put a loaded weapon in my hand.

That's the least you owe the rest of us before you unintentionally represent the rest of by becoming a legal gun owner.

Ok... I'm cooling down now.

After the chamber/magwell check, the gun should be empty. But there's nothing wrong with doing a press check before intentionally pulling the trigger.

I like the press check, because it's simpler. You just have to see the empty chamber, only.

Getting in the habit of fully racking the slide then immediately pulling the trigger just to hear it click is bad juju.

FIVETWOSEVEN said:

He was dropping the hammer to put it away he just racked the slide than dropped the magazine. Hes never had a ND before till he unloaded in the wrong order which hes never done before. So I'm guessing you've never made a mistake in you're life. Wonder how it must feel to go through life knowing that you're perfect.

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I don't even know the person nor the situation. But dropping a hammer while inserting it into the safe could never happen. Because the hammer woud have been dropped on the bench. It would have been secured in its box, holster, or sock and placed in the safe. Maybe I take this stuff to serious. I just gave my opinion. I meant no malice....Russ

I don't even know the person nor the situation. But dropping a hammer while inserting it into the safe could never happen. Because the hammer woud have been dropped on the bench. It would have been secured in its box, holster, or sock and placed in the safe. Maybe I take this stuff to serious. I just gave my opinion. I meant no malice....Russ

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It was his carry piece so he couldn't drop it on the bench.

He was never educated properlly, that's what caused it. My family "uncles" all passed on now, were all in the Marines Army navy or Air force. We had it all covered. if you didn't check a gun "even if it was cleared in front of you", you automatically got a slap. It only took me seeing my cousin get knocked off the chair once to make sure I never did that. It becomes engrained in your head at an early age if you were lucky enough to come from a family of hunters and competition shooters. there is a big difference going into the world of firarms, if you had no upbringing around them.I don't know if the op did or didn't have a background like this or not, but generally speaking to a lot of people who just decided they were going to get a gun, "because it's popular now", they don't have that boomer family gun tradition thing that many of us were lucky to have, when everyone went into the military before us. There was a time when every able bodied man could shoot a rifle of pistol which caused that old Japanese saying about an American with a rifle behind every blade of grass. Now not so much, many kids have been taught to hate guns, we need to work on that.

He was in the Navy for a few years, actually did secret airborn (in a aircraft, not something like a Navy SEAL) reconnaissance missions.

To just assume that he was never educated properly is just stupid, he made a mistake after having close to 70 years of safe gun handling which I bet is longer than you have been alive.

Phrasing it right or wrong

...

He was never educated properly, that's what caused it.

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Agree with above "getting educated" And adding to that -

I don't even know the person nor the situation. But dropping a hammer while inserting it into the safe could never happen. Because the hammer would have been dropped on the bench. It would have been secured in its box, holster, or sock and placed in the safe. Maybe I take this stuff to serious. I just gave my opinion. I meant no malice...

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Maybe we should include (start) with "using the decocker" vs "dropping the hammer" as the 2, methods/sayings, have very different uses and results.. "should have "decocked the hammer"



Ls

FIVETWOSEVEN said:

He was in the Navy for a few years, actually did secret airborn (in a aircraft, not something like a Navy SEAL) reconnaissance missions.

To just assume that he was never educated properly is just stupid, he made a mistake after having close to 70 years of safe gun handling which I bet is longer than you have been alive.

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Nobody knows this individual but yourself. How could we determine wether his mind has gotten to a point where he is forgetfull or negligent about handling firearms? I would leave that decision to his family. My Mother is 80 right now and drives fine. But the time will come when we will need to take the keys from her. She won't like it but it is just life. If someone has an ND they have the obligation to others to determine wether they should handle guns. Trying to defend a ND as something that cannot be avoided and will happen eventually IN MY OPINION is wrong. While there is always a chance the odds can be drastically reduced to about zero by following proper procedure each and everytime. I will never understand making excuses for being negligent....Russ

Well if he was, then he either forgot, or wasn't.

Nobody knows this individual but yourself. How could we determine wether his mind has gotten to a point where he is forgetfull or negligent about handling firearms? I would leave that decision to his family. My Mother is 80 right now and drives fine. But the time will come when we will need to take the keys from her. She won't like it but it is just life. If someone has an ND they have the obligation to others to determine wether they should handle guns. Trying to defend a ND as something that cannot be avoided and will happen eventually IN MY OPINION is wrong. While there is always a chance the odds can be drastically reduced to about zero by following proper procedure each and everytime. I will never understand making excuses for being negligent....Russ

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He certainly isn't getting forgetful I can assure you that. I do agree though that if the gun has a decocker that it should be used but he just drops the hammer. I'm only defending him because you made such a harsh statement that anyone that has a ND is a complete idiot and should never own a gun again in his life. This is the first time hes had one and hes been safe all his life and just because he accidentally reversed the unloading procedure ONCE after near 70 years of being safe, he should just give away all of his guns.

I worked in gun shops for 10 years. You wouldn't believe how many chambered guns I have cleared that customers brought to the counter telling me they were unloaded. If you don't go through the basics everytime you pick up a gun you should not ever be able to handle it. I don't care if the guy that handed it to you checked while you were watching you should go through the process again. Why would anyone ever point a gun at a TV and pull the trigger? Lucky you didn't kill someone. Seems like you understand what you did. Time will tell. Personally I think you should lose your gun privilages. Nobody in my family has ever had a ND...Russ

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No more storing loaded guns. The only time I will have a loaded gun in my hand is when I am ready to shoot it.

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If that's what you need to do... by all means do it.

I would suggest, that all you really need to do is "don't pull the trigger" (unless it's to fire the weapon, to evaluate the function of the gun, or to do serious minded training)

In the first 6 months after getting my pistol permit and carrying frequently, I made a few blunders...

1. Carrying with the safety system locked
2. Thinking a round was chambered when none was
3. putting the pistol "temorarilly" on top of the bookshelf (out of reach of the kiddies) and forgetting about it for several days.
4. leaving the pistol in an unlocked car over night.

I regrouped and went with the a KISS plan.

1. All of my handguns are condition 1, all of the time... period.
2. All of my handguns are either carried on my person, in a good holster, or are readilly available in a GunVault (push button type).

Since making this change, I've never once had to wonder whether one of my handguns is loaded or not.... I know that they are and I handle them accordingly (i.e. I don't play with them and never pull the trigger).

I find this system to be as close to foolproof as I can get.

Before, I was so concerned about having a "loaded gun" that I had a dozen different rules, procedures and policies, and wound up confusing myself.

For me, KISS is the way to go.

Good luck and be safe!

1. All of my handguns are condition 1, all of the time... period.
2. All of my handguns are either carried on my person, in a good holster, or are readilly available in a GunVault (push button type).

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This system is only simple if you have only a few handguns. Or a lot of GunVaults!

FIVETWOSEVEN said:

He certainly isn't getting forgetful I can assure you that. I do agree though that if the gun has a decocker that it should be used but he just drops the hammer. I'm only defending him because you made such a harsh statement that anyone that has a ND is a complete idiot and should never own a gun again in his life. This is the first time hes had one and hes been safe all his life and just because he accidentally reversed the unloading procedure ONCE after near 70 years of being safe, he should just give away all of his guns.

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It appears that he was negligent that time. He fired a loaded gun in the house at his safe. He could have killed or injured someone. Writing it off as an ND and it happens to everyone is nuts in my opinion. When someone after 70 years of handling guns has their first ND it may be a warning sign that it might be time to hang it up. I dont know this mans state of mind. You do. If it were my Father I would discuss it with my brothers. I know little or no facts regarding this ND. I take the handling of guns extremely serious. Sorry if my anal attention to the handling of firearms is excessive. But after listening to all the stories of those who fire unloaded guns it appears my point of view is warranted. Better safe than sorry. I hope you don't post that he had another ND and you did not react in time. This is about you and him not me...Russ

Also I never reffered to anyone as an idiot. Maybe you confused me with some other poster.

This system is only simple if you have only a few handguns. Or a lot of GunVaults!

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Touche'

I can only hope to have this problem some day.

two GunVaults and and RSC are getting cramped.... but I can always make room for more

He has his safes in the garage and it was a safe direction aswell, no one was in danger. But yes by your post you called anyone that has a ND an idiot considering you said that they should never own a gun and never should touch one again.

You should now be one of the safest handgun owners in the country.
Some people who feel that it could not happen to them might be less safe.

This topic reminds me of the truly superb (former WW2 P-51, then post war test pilot) Bob Hoover.
In his book, he had finished a show and was about to leave with two passengers on a night cross-country flight.
The fueler mistakenly put jet fuel (Jet A) in his twin prop plane, which was a reciprocating type using gasoline (Avgas). Some Rockwell twins at that time might have already been converted to turboprops. Such Rockwell Turbo Comander types are powered by small Garrett etc turbines.

During climb-out both engines failed in fairly quick succession.
Bob identified each as it happened, shutoff the correct levers and feathered the correct prop levers to minimize drag (he did this during his famous airshow routines then flew an aileron roll and a loop with both shutdown and landed 'deadstick').
Now he was in a glider and smoothly put the plane on the ground with little damage and no injuries (but unlike airshows, still in the dark).

The FBO's manager heard about it, told Hoover that the fueler would be fired.
Hoover said "No, keep the guy-he will be the safest fueler in the country".