The BP Revolver Conversion Picture Thread
- Thread starter ClemBert
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Hoof Hearted
Member
AFF = American Frontier Firearms
A conversion gunsmith like myself named Dave Anderson established that company. He was an enterprising fellow who got ASM to make parts for him then he assembled pistols from those parts. His fit and finish was quite nice and the pistols were attractive without any importers markings and the American Frontier Firearms legend on the top of the barrel they also sported real bone/charcoal color case. He made a Richards 1851 (I have one) a Navy gripped Open Top (I have one) and an 1860 type one/type two mixed up pistol without a rebated cylinder (I have one that he tried to give the illusion of a rebate to). There may have been other models/variations but I have not seen them.
After he stopped ASM started importing the conversions through Traditions. I don't know how or why that came to be but I bet the story is interesting.
Personally I like the early ASM conversions and their 1873's. I would be interested in any parts or whole guns offered to me, working or not.
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
I'll play. Here's a 7.5" ROA with R&D conversion installed.
Busyhands94
Member
My turn!
I know I've really been showing this off a lot, but I just love it so much! My converter that converts a .44 Remington ta a single shot pistol that shoots .22 short, long, or long rifle. It is most accurate with my blackpowder .22 LR ammo.
Finally I'm a member of this club!
I know I've really been showing this off a lot, but I just love it so much! My converter that converts a .44 Remington ta a single shot pistol that shoots .22 short, long, or long rifle. It is most accurate with my blackpowder .22 LR ammo.
Finally I'm a member of this club!
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That's not a cartridge conversion, it's the 1871-1872 Open Top model. Colt's first dedicated big bore cartridge revolver. It was built on a dedicated frame and was not a percussion model converted to fire metallic cartridges.
Another misnomer. If it's a Richards-Mason, it's an 1860. 1871 is merely a patent date, of which there are several.
Nuttin' fancy: A pair of Uberti '58's, R&D cylinders from Taylor's. Beautiful slimjims and belt by Rick Bachman of Old West Reproductions. These are two of my most accurate pistols, they hold their own with my semiautos any day.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Beautiful rig!
SMPARKINSON
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
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- 19
Good old guns - conversions!
This is another shot of my revolving carbine conversion, only with the Kirst .45 ACP conversion installed. Shown with the carbine is his little brother, which started life as a new Uberti 1858 5.5" .44 Cal. cap & ball revolver. I love Uberti's quality when it comes to their cap & ball revolvers, but I just can't leave well enough alone. I did my antiquing same as the carbine, and cut the recoil shield for the conversion. Right now it's set up with the .22 conversion, while the carbine is set up with the .45 ACP conversion and the ejector.
What I need to make this whole set complete would be another ejector so I didn't have to choose which one to have it on, and an additional cylinder in .45 Colt. The centerfire back plate I have will work with either the .45 ACP cylinder I now have, and would also work with a .45 Colt cylinder if I got one, so I wouln't need to get another back plate. But that additional cylinder would give me .45 Colt and also .45 Schofield. That would give me a lot of options!
Either the revolver or the carbine could be set up to shoot; .22 rimfire (I won't even list all the options that could cover!), .44 round or conical cap & ball, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and .45 Schofield. I guess I could even add .45 Auto Rim to the list, although I don't think I've even seen one of those cartridges!
As a practicle matter I suppose that if I were depending on these pieces in a serious way, I would probably keep the revolver set up as a .22 and the carbine in either .45 ACP or .45 Colt if I had that cylinder.
By the way. I chose the .45 ACP conversion over the .45 Colt on the advise of Jay Strite, a very nice guy who took the time to answer my questions and explain his answers clearly. He stated that they had done a lot, if not most, of their testing with the carbine as opposed to the revolver, and that the .45 ACP was the most accurate of the .45 calibers tested in the carbine. Additionally, the cost of .45 ACP is a lot less than the cost of .45 Colt ammo. I can tell you that, while it takes a little looking around to find .45 ACP with a lead bullet as opposed to jacketed, once you find them, it will cost you about 30% to 40% less than .45 Colt. I ended up with Ultramax and although I can't remember exactly what I paid for it, it was substantially less than any .45 Colt I could find. It aint traditional, but you can afford to shoot it. Of course once you have some brass saved up, I would guess they would be pretty close to the same cost as far as reloading goes. Anyway, like I said, I'm going to get an extra cylinder in .45 Colt, than I can shoot both.
Well, that's my 3 cents. I sure do like looking at all the fine conversions everybody has done on these pages. My own style is that I like to make my pieces look like thay are well cared for 130 year old pieces, but the one's that look like they are brand new with 100% finish are absolutly beautiful too, and they give one the sense of entering a gun store back in the day and buying one of those brand new conversions. I gotta tell ya', there is something about the conversions that really grabs me. When I was a kid I would have never given it any thought, but now when I see these pieces, it just gives me a true feeling of history. And the best part for us is that we can hold that history in our hand and use them. How many hobbies offer that combination of historic education, mechanical knowledge, and potential skill building and exitement all rolled into one!?! I feel sorry for these kids who know nothing more than the electronic stimulation provided by video games. To sleep under the stars next to a camp fire with your dog and your revolver; to wake up shivering and start that fire up again and make hot coffee and eggs. Than to spend the day shooting with friends......I'm sorry to say that most kids will never know what it's like. Well, time for this old Cowboy to head off into the sunset.
Bone-Knee Notches!
This is another shot of my revolving carbine conversion, only with the Kirst .45 ACP conversion installed. Shown with the carbine is his little brother, which started life as a new Uberti 1858 5.5" .44 Cal. cap & ball revolver. I love Uberti's quality when it comes to their cap & ball revolvers, but I just can't leave well enough alone. I did my antiquing same as the carbine, and cut the recoil shield for the conversion. Right now it's set up with the .22 conversion, while the carbine is set up with the .45 ACP conversion and the ejector.
What I need to make this whole set complete would be another ejector so I didn't have to choose which one to have it on, and an additional cylinder in .45 Colt. The centerfire back plate I have will work with either the .45 ACP cylinder I now have, and would also work with a .45 Colt cylinder if I got one, so I wouln't need to get another back plate. But that additional cylinder would give me .45 Colt and also .45 Schofield. That would give me a lot of options!
Either the revolver or the carbine could be set up to shoot; .22 rimfire (I won't even list all the options that could cover!), .44 round or conical cap & ball, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and .45 Schofield. I guess I could even add .45 Auto Rim to the list, although I don't think I've even seen one of those cartridges!
As a practicle matter I suppose that if I were depending on these pieces in a serious way, I would probably keep the revolver set up as a .22 and the carbine in either .45 ACP or .45 Colt if I had that cylinder.
By the way. I chose the .45 ACP conversion over the .45 Colt on the advise of Jay Strite, a very nice guy who took the time to answer my questions and explain his answers clearly. He stated that they had done a lot, if not most, of their testing with the carbine as opposed to the revolver, and that the .45 ACP was the most accurate of the .45 calibers tested in the carbine. Additionally, the cost of .45 ACP is a lot less than the cost of .45 Colt ammo. I can tell you that, while it takes a little looking around to find .45 ACP with a lead bullet as opposed to jacketed, once you find them, it will cost you about 30% to 40% less than .45 Colt. I ended up with Ultramax and although I can't remember exactly what I paid for it, it was substantially less than any .45 Colt I could find. It aint traditional, but you can afford to shoot it. Of course once you have some brass saved up, I would guess they would be pretty close to the same cost as far as reloading goes. Anyway, like I said, I'm going to get an extra cylinder in .45 Colt, than I can shoot both.
Well, that's my 3 cents. I sure do like looking at all the fine conversions everybody has done on these pages. My own style is that I like to make my pieces look like thay are well cared for 130 year old pieces, but the one's that look like they are brand new with 100% finish are absolutly beautiful too, and they give one the sense of entering a gun store back in the day and buying one of those brand new conversions. I gotta tell ya', there is something about the conversions that really grabs me. When I was a kid I would have never given it any thought, but now when I see these pieces, it just gives me a true feeling of history. And the best part for us is that we can hold that history in our hand and use them. How many hobbies offer that combination of historic education, mechanical knowledge, and potential skill building and exitement all rolled into one!?! I feel sorry for these kids who know nothing more than the electronic stimulation provided by video games. To sleep under the stars next to a camp fire with your dog and your revolver; to wake up shivering and start that fire up again and make hot coffee and eggs. Than to spend the day shooting with friends......I'm sorry to say that most kids will never know what it's like. Well, time for this old Cowboy to head off into the sunset.
Bone-Knee Notches!
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SMPARKINSON
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 19
Busyhands94
I know I've really been showing this off a lot, but I just love it so much! My converter that converts a .44 Remington ta a single shot pistol that shoots .22 short, long, or long rifle. It is most accurate with my blackpowder .22 LR ammo.
Hey Busyhands!
I hadn't seen your single shot conversion before, but I have often thought of making something similar for the 1851 Navy, only 'cause there are so many of them and they can be had so cheap sometimes. Could you provide some more pictures and show how it is used? You know, how it is loaded and unloaded and installed in your gun? Between the two of us we might be able to come up with a design for other revolvers.
Like I said, I had though about this because it seems like a single shot could be done pretty simple, even you made it so it was installed and locked into position in your gun frame, and set up with a breech that opened and closed to allow reloading without taking the whole thing apart. Please post more info, or email me directly at [email protected]
I know I've really been showing this off a lot, but I just love it so much! My converter that converts a .44 Remington ta a single shot pistol that shoots .22 short, long, or long rifle. It is most accurate with my blackpowder .22 LR ammo.
Hey Busyhands!
I hadn't seen your single shot conversion before, but I have often thought of making something similar for the 1851 Navy, only 'cause there are so many of them and they can be had so cheap sometimes. Could you provide some more pictures and show how it is used? You know, how it is loaded and unloaded and installed in your gun? Between the two of us we might be able to come up with a design for other revolvers.
Like I said, I had though about this because it seems like a single shot could be done pretty simple, even you made it so it was installed and locked into position in your gun frame, and set up with a breech that opened and closed to allow reloading without taking the whole thing apart. Please post more info, or email me directly at [email protected]
Busyhands94
Member
I can't be posting too much info due to liability issues, however I'll be making a video real soon of me shooting this. I went and got 13 fifty round boxes of .22 LR, and a metal target so it will be a good video. Believe me, it's so dang simple you wouldn't believe it. No moving parts unless you count the barrel that slips into the existing barrel. Or I guess you could maybe count the bullet itself as a moving part if you really wanted to.
Busyhands94
Member
Well I did a little bit more shooting with my converter today, turns out that Winchester Super X high velocity group quite well! My bullet trap caught a nice couple flakes of lead the size of a penny too! Hehehe! This is why I am going to go to college and train to be a gunsmith. I could do this sort of thing all day!!
alienbogey
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
- Messages
- 270
Busyhands94
Member
I too have been on the lookout for a low-cost conversion cylinder. I think the used ones would be a lot cheaper, Then again they have the cylinder itself without the loading gate and breech assembly for sale that costs about $110 or so. I figure I'm a good machinist/gunsmith that I might actually be able to make the breech, firing pin, gate, and ejector myself.
~Levi
~Levi
SMPARKINSON
Member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Messages
- 19
Just the conversion cylinder without the rest
I think you could do ok with just the cylinder. You can actually skip the pivoting gate, whith would be one of the more difficult pieces to build. Lots of original conversions back in the day didn't have gates. In fact, a lot of revolvers that weren't conversions were designed without gates. I cut my backplate for my 1858 .22 conversion so I didn't have to remove the cylinder to load and unload, and I didn't bother trying to make a gate. The way the cylinder indexes, shells are very unlikely to fall out, unless you point the barrel streight up as you are cocking the revolver. As far as the back plate with fireing pin goes, As long as you had the thickness correct, it would just be a matter of securing it to the recoil shield and fabricating a firing pin set up. Although I've never done that for a conversion, I have done that type of firing pin from scratch in the past for miniature cannon I've built and it was pretty simple. In fact, if you looked carefully, you could probably find the components you needed from Brownells, and just drill and install the pieces in you breech plate. You have to take your time and be patient to get you position right, but it aint rocket science. The other thing to look into is some of the conversion components available from VTI that are actually replacement parts for some of the Italian conversion revolvers. I know that some of the people out there have done just that, although from what I understand there isn't much cost savings and they certainly done provide a "drop in" solution like the Kirst units. There are a lot of different ways to go in these projects, and it is just limited by your money and imagination. The least expensive ways are certainly the ones that provide the greatest challange, but they also probably provide the best opportunity for developing skills and new techniques. I know I'll be trying other projects that require a little more than just altering an existing conversion unit. Probably with some parts from VTI most likely, along with fabricating some of my own pieces.
I think you could do ok with just the cylinder. You can actually skip the pivoting gate, whith would be one of the more difficult pieces to build. Lots of original conversions back in the day didn't have gates. In fact, a lot of revolvers that weren't conversions were designed without gates. I cut my backplate for my 1858 .22 conversion so I didn't have to remove the cylinder to load and unload, and I didn't bother trying to make a gate. The way the cylinder indexes, shells are very unlikely to fall out, unless you point the barrel streight up as you are cocking the revolver. As far as the back plate with fireing pin goes, As long as you had the thickness correct, it would just be a matter of securing it to the recoil shield and fabricating a firing pin set up. Although I've never done that for a conversion, I have done that type of firing pin from scratch in the past for miniature cannon I've built and it was pretty simple. In fact, if you looked carefully, you could probably find the components you needed from Brownells, and just drill and install the pieces in you breech plate. You have to take your time and be patient to get you position right, but it aint rocket science. The other thing to look into is some of the conversion components available from VTI that are actually replacement parts for some of the Italian conversion revolvers. I know that some of the people out there have done just that, although from what I understand there isn't much cost savings and they certainly done provide a "drop in" solution like the Kirst units. There are a lot of different ways to go in these projects, and it is just limited by your money and imagination. The least expensive ways are certainly the ones that provide the greatest challange, but they also probably provide the best opportunity for developing skills and new techniques. I know I'll be trying other projects that require a little more than just altering an existing conversion unit. Probably with some parts from VTI most likely, along with fabricating some of my own pieces.
ring and gate assy same
The ring and gate assembly for the Kirst Converter Cylinder for the Walker and the Dragoons are the same. The cylinders are different lengths obviously, but the gate interchanges. Since I will only shoot one at a time, I only bought the bare cylinder for my Walker. It only takes a few seconds to do the switch. You can e-mail Kirst and they will verify interchangability for you.....
The ring and gate assembly for the Kirst Converter Cylinder for the Walker and the Dragoons are the same. The cylinders are different lengths obviously, but the gate interchanges. Since I will only shoot one at a time, I only bought the bare cylinder for my Walker. It only takes a few seconds to do the switch. You can e-mail Kirst and they will verify interchangability for you.....
rbertalotto
Member
Hoof Hearted
Member
I am the installer for Kirst (if you purchase installation it ships to me) and yes the Walker and Dragoon use the same Konverter ring. You can actually put a Walker cylinder in a Dragoon by cutting back the forcing cone area of the barrel also.....The ring and gate assembly for the Kirst Converter Cylinder for the Walker and the Dragoons are the same. The cylinders are different lengths obviously, but the gate interchanges. Since I will only shoot one at a time, I only bought the bare cylinder for my Walker. It only takes a few seconds to do the switch. You can e-mail Kirst and they will verify interchangability for you.....
I have done these for myself and customers.
I have also removed the "wing" portion of the loading gate for customers who did not want to port their revolvers. It was mentioned above that "gunsmith" or frontier conversions often had no gate with just a port or no port and a solid ring (there are documented factory Dragoon conversions like this).
I have pics of a Dragoon with a Walker cylinder on my website:
http://www.cartridgeconversion.com
Here is my Pietta 58 Remmy Target Model with Kirst CC. The C&B cylinders can be changed so quickly, I bought a couple spares. Recoil shield Loading gate entry was easily done with large rat tail file, followed with Dremel drum sanding of different grits.
I will say the Kirst CC locks up tighter than any revolver I have ever owned. Do not think cylinder end play is over 0.001” and the B/C gap is cigarette paper tight. With Trail Boss under a 185 grain SWC it is scary accurate, but cannot use black powder because the B/C gap is so tight it binds up after just one shot.
25 yards from rest.
I will say the Kirst CC locks up tighter than any revolver I have ever owned. Do not think cylinder end play is over 0.001” and the B/C gap is cigarette paper tight. With Trail Boss under a 185 grain SWC it is scary accurate, but cannot use black powder because the B/C gap is so tight it binds up after just one shot.
25 yards from rest.
rbertalotto
Member
Got the 1860 Sheriff models with Hoofs conversion cylinders......I need a bit of time to grind the ejection ports.....
Hoof Hearted
Member
Brasser..................................
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