The infamous .38 round

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Don't know why you put the .38 S&W off in "the .38 family" when its bullet is only about three thou larger than the .358" series and it was inside lubricated long before Colt ever broke away from the heel bullets.

Or why you don't segregate the so-called 9x18 Makarov which is really a 9.2, .364" bullet in American money.

Ian Fleming was a desk spy with little connexion to firearms. Bond did ok when Fleming listened to Geoffrey Boothroyd (prototype of movie Q) but not often otherwise.
 
.38

I like many of the smaller .38 frame special revolvers. Mainly because I like the Hornady Critical Defense ammo in 110 grain at 1010 fps. Hardly any recoil and very accurate in the revolvers I've fired it in. Some recommend a small light .38 for women. I seldom do, without suggesting the Hornady round. Maybe I'm a wuss but I think the recoil etc. is brutal in some of the lighter .38 handguns. Especially with hotter heavier ammo. The result is some women will not practice enough to be proficient with a gun that hurts them. Totally different animal when stoked with the Hornady rounds. From test I've seen the Critical Defense ammo seem to do O.K. and it's pleasant to shoot.
 
My Colt's .38S&W shoots .360 bullets

Maybe not. According to Colt blueprints, chamber throats and bore groove diameters for .38 Colt New Police (same as .38 S&W by another name) are the same as are specified for .38 Special. When reloading exchange the .360 expander plug for a .358 one.

When I get time I'll post the exact dimensions. Keep in mind that this only applies to Colt revolvers.

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Well I suspect these numbers will cause some lifted eyebrows, but the come from a Colt blueprint:

Chamber throat diameter: .3585"
Bore groove diameter: .353" - .354"

Colt barrels had a reputation for being tighter then some others. Remember that when these dimensions were established, revolver ammunition was usually loaded with soft lead bullets. If you have a Police Positive or Police Positive Special chambered in .38 CNP/.38 S&W there is no reason to use .361" bullets. Those that are .356" or .358" will offer all kinds of possibilities.
 
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Sorry folks,
like I said, my brain was only half working when I posted.
I got the 38 S&W mixed up with the old 38 Rimfires.
 
At a time when many people are considering a purchase of their first handgun for concealed carry, the most common question is, "What is the best gun for me".
I agree with a previous statement on this subject, "The biggest one you can safely handle". But really, all facts considered, that's not a very good answer to give a first time gun owner.
So the next question is always asked in our training classes. "What is best, .38 Special, 9mm, or .380, since they are all .38 thousands, right?
One instructor i heard made this comment, "A .380 is nice to have, if you don't have a gun". Although James Bond did quite well with it, huh?

So what does the group think about these three rounds, what's the best CCW round?
But Bond's preferred gun was a .25ACP Beretta. M ORDERED 007 to carry the Walther in the larger caliber, referring to the .25 as a "lady's gun". Bond could hit what he aimed at, though.

But then, are your basing your Bond history on the books (the original documents) or the movies?

Note also, that while James Bond was a fictional character, author Ian Fleming had first-hand experience in British Intelligence and commando operations, though it is unclear to me if he ever actually was an operative himself, he would have had close access to all manner of facts and research.

For that matter, are you basing your ballistic choices on works of fiction?

Rememer, Ian Fleming also wrote "Chitty chitty bang bang".

All kidding aside, I would expect Fleming's books to have some good advice. Sorting it out from the spectacular, inserted to sell books might be hard. Sorting out that which was added by the film-makers to sell tickets would be an exercise in futility.

So, here's my take on your question.

The .25 is easier to conceal. Bond was fit and a highly trained fighter bare-handed and with weapons. The kind of threat he was called upon to defend himself against was of a particular sort. What threat are you preparing against and what circumstances will you be carrying in? Those considerations would carry more weight than a simple "what gun"?

Automatics are easier to conceal, generally, than a revolver, but will require more practice to master the mechanics of operation. Revolvers are quite often more powerful and simpler to operate, but marksmanship is a little more difficult to master (double action trigger pull). So, the amount of practice you are willing to invest will matter to your choice.

The choice of "what is the best gun for me" most often comes down to trying a variety of guns and settling on the one that you operate most comfortably and accurately. Only time and first-hand experience and experimentation will tell you this.

The best we can do for you is to point out the pertinent questions for you to ask yourself as you live with a selection of guns.

How many gun experts have tried living with a particular gun for months only to discover that it isn't "the one" and traded for another.

Picking a gun for another person is as difficult as picking a spouse.

Lost Sheep

Note that the calibers you mention are not 38 hundredths of an inch in diameter. They are a little less than 36 hundredths. (9mm AND 380 Auto are .355 to .356" 38 Special is .357".). The diameter of the .38 Special CASE is .379" (close enough to .38" to call it even).
 
Well I'm sorta glad I showed up late, read every post so far and all the most important counter-questions seem to have been asked. :) It's up to you to use them as best you can to find what works well for you. Go with the questions and statements that sound and feel the most 'high road'.

I bought my GP-100 two Octobers ago, and first tried .38 special through it two Decembers ago. I've been shooting that caliber more and more since then, and I truly love it more and more each time! It is SUCH a 'shootable' round in a comfortable way. Kind of a simple statement, but very true in my case. It's my girlfriend's favorite caliber, and she is equally competent with .357 mag and others. Reliability has been absolute thus far, and accuracy is as precise as the shooter.

My favorite 9mm was my first cartridge-firing gun. I owned several percussion powder guns and shot many guns that weren't mine for years before I purchased it, it's a 5906. Recoil is very comfortable, capacity is plentiful, that particular gun is amazingly reliable, and the abundance and availability of the caliber is certainly something to be considered. With the right gun it is as accurate as you'd ever need it to be.

I've shot a friend's .380 on several occasions, and haven't been compelled to purchase one yet. I can't say anything bad about it, except that I prefer other calibers. If one finds you or happened to 'find' me, it might be great for you, and I certainly wouldn't turn it away :D

If I had or made more money than I do now, and/or if I had a reloading set-up, and I will... I would already be into .38 super. Everything I've read about it intrigues me, so I'm looking forward to the day when I own a 1911 in .38 :)

Edit: great post all around LostSheep! you posted while I was writing this one, so I was just now able to enjoy it. I especially enjoyed the last line before your user name at the end. I've always remembered that Ian Fleming wrote 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang'! I must say that the book was much darker, more interesting, and much more entertaining than the movie!
 
I'm a huge fan of the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum at times too. I don't care for the 9mm but I do like the 380 Auto for those times you need to carry a VERY small pistol (Kel-Tec P-3AT)... I carry a .38 Special J frame daily...
 
So what does the group think about these three rounds, what's the best CCW round?

I have three concealed carry weapons and the one I have with me on any given day is just a function of how I'm dressed. I have one each in 38spl, 9mm, and 380. In any case where it needed to be brought to bear, I'm confident that any of the three would serve well. Having said that, I feel most confident with the 38spl.
 
I think people beat themselves up over this way too much. I like my 9mm, .38, and .357 for carry depending on what I'm wearing and where I'm going. Really though I think any of them are just fine. I often carry .38 in my .357, mainly due to noise. In fact if I'm not in the woods I seldom carry .357 at all.
 
In my younger days a .38SPL model 10 or 64 was all I would carry for woods bumming or home defense then later on for C.C.W. It matters more where that bullet lands,When I was in steady practice I could call my shots and either hit the exact spot (or close enough that it wouldn't matter)

Anyone looking to own a .38spl model 10 or 64 (Service length 4-inch barrel) couldn't find a better handgun and caliber combo,keep in mind that the .38 has dropped more goodguys and badguys than we will ever know (from 1899-present)

Anymore though I like the Governor because it's a Smith,it is compact,lightweight,and it can't be beaten for the edge it gives it's owner for close range firepower.
 
When I retired from law enforcement I ran my own firearms training business for 10 years. The majority of my classes were for CCW permit qualification and renewal. What I told my students was:

The best concealed cary handgun is the one you will have with you.

You can argue long and loud about which caliber is best but if the individual won't carry it on their person every single day, all day long then the caliber really doesn't matter now does it? Get a gun you will actually carry, then train with it like your life depended on it...as that may well be the case.

Dave
 
When people new to firearms ask me this question I always say, unless you are planning on carrying it get a .357 magnum with at least a four inch barrel. I like this for a first time shooter becouse the revolver platform is easier to handle and practice with for a newbie, and the larger frame gun can handle .38s and with practice you can move to the more effective .357 mag. For me I always cary a .45, and a LCP .380, both are very reliable.
 
I think it depends on what if any experience the person has with handguns. If zero, I say start with a revolver (personally I would recommend a .357 compact of which you can begin with by using .38's for training). Semi-auto are a bit more complex (IMO) for a new user and thus more prone to user error.

Oh, and by the way I am of the philosophy that the bigger caliber the better yet I CCW a 9mm when I would much rather do so with my .45 1911--but it's just so convenient to even at times pocket carry my P11 (13 rounds--25 if you include my spare mag). However, the other day it was 92 degrees and I took out the trash with just a pair of shorts and in my right front pocket was my Beretta 21A in .22lr which ,once again, while not my first choice is subjectively speaking 'adequate' for certain dispositions (always carry the 21 as my BUG).

-Cheers
 
But Bond's preferred gun was a .25ACP Beretta. M ORDERED 007 to carry the Walther in the larger caliber, referring to the .25 as a "lady's gun". Bond could hit what he aimed at, though.

When he could get a shot off. Bond's preference was a .25ACP Beretta with a silencer carried in a soft chamois leather shoulder holster. When he was attacked by Rosa Kleb with poisoned knitting needles at the end of From Russia with Love The silencer snagged on the soft leather holster and he was unable to draw the weapon.

In the second chapter of Dr. No, the armorer (Major Boothroyd) replace the gun with a Walther PPK 7.62 ("a real stopping gun") carried in a Berns-Martin Triple Draw, IWB.

For something larger, Boothroyd recommended a S&W Centennial Airweight in .38 Special with either a 3.5" or 5" barrel. I think the only factory options were 2" and 3" so it must have been a custom model.
 
To continue the off topic on stories with bad gun information, I recently read a book where a colt officers 45 1911 shot 18 rounds before reloading.:what:
 
Honestly, what's with all the James-Bond-this and James-Bond-that?

Chuck Norris > James Bond.

Oh, and I'd second the above poster who recommends new shooters start w/ .22LR; it's a really good round to allow for a lot of cheap practice w/ very modest recoil.

Then, I'd also recommend new shooters try a LOT of guns; shoot everything they can get their hands on. Big, small, revolver, semi auto... 1911 style, Walther style, striker-fired, SA, SA/DA, Tupperware, everything.

I personally like Glock for SD, because I don't have to fumble w/ a safety switch under stressful situations.

And, I like .45 ACP in a full size G21. I like the recoil of the big round; heavier... less 'sharp'. Unlike my aluminum-framed FEG PA-63 chambered in 9x18 Makarov. I've had that thing bruise my hand after 100 rds.

Anyway, the G21 makes ME happy to shoot. It may not be for everyone, but I think everyone should give it (and all the other calibers and platforms) a shot. If for some reason a person needs an SD piece, and isn't tuned into guns, I think a G17 is hard to beat (cheap ammo; moderate recoil, ease of use, and easy to sell if the shooter finds another platform/caliber better suited).

JMO.

-Bill
 
I look at it this way. Im a big guy not huge but 6'1 in the 230's and in shape. I rotate my carry between 3 guns depending on where and weather. Hot texas summers a keltec in .32 coat weather a 357 mag. The majority of the time I carry a bursa 380. I love it and i can hit a grapefruit sized target at 15 meters repeatedly. The wife carries a 327 mag with the same kinda practice. Size matters but not near as much as where you put the bullet. Also for a started gun a single action 22/22mag. Let them learn how to truely shoot in levels.
 
All are acceptable for concealed carry defense. But while all are more or less the same actual diameter, the rounds as a whole and their platforms are very different. The .38 Special does best with 158 grain soft lead LSWCHP rounds. You cannot have such soft lead hollow points in most 9x19's. They favor lighter jacketed rounds. The .380 is a notch less potent than the 9x19 but has similar bullet limitations.
 
So the next question is always asked in our training classes. "What is best, .38 Special, 9mm, or .380, since they are all .38 thousands, right?

So what does the group think about these three rounds, what's the best CCW round?
I prefer them in this order:

9mm Para
.38 special


I can't see myself ever carrying a .380 pistol.

If I want to carry a light-weight pocket handgun, it will be a snub-nose .38 special.
But if I want to carry inside the waistband, or outside the waistband, then it will be a small 9mm para pistol.

I simply have no need for the .380.
 
For myself I rotate between an XD40sc, a fullsize 1911 45acp and yes my pitiful little .380 LCP. :rolleyes:

I tried all manner of bottom feeders for my wife and we kept coming back to my beater Taurus 82 38spcl project gun. I just got her a SP101 .357 with a 4 inch barrel and she loves it. All she has used is 38s with it and I couldn't be more thrilled. Finally a handgun she is comfortable with, totally not intimidated by, and can hit COM at 7 paces 5/5.

What's not to love from this puny round?
 
Grandfather and others 'oldies' have told me the old .38 Special LRN worked just fine against bad guys...granted you knew how to shoot a gun properly.
 
Since you asked

Honestly, what's with all the James-Bond-this and James-Bond-that?

Chuck Norris > James Bond.

Oh, and I'd second the above poster who recommends new shooters start w/ .22LR; it's a really good round to allow for a lot of cheap practice w/ very modest recoil.

Then, I'd also recommend new shooters try a LOT of guns; shoot everything they can get their hands on. Big, small, revolver, semi auto... 1911 style, Walther style, striker-fired, SA, SA/DA, Tupperware, everything.

I personally like Glock for SD, because I don't have to fumble w/ a safety switch under stressful situations.

And, I like .45 ACP in a full size G21. I like the recoil of the big round; heavier... less 'sharp'. Unlike my aluminum-framed FEG PA-63 chambered in 9x18 Makarov. I've had that thing bruise my hand after 100 rds.

Anyway, the G21 makes ME happy to shoot. It may not be for everyone, but I think everyone should give it (and all the other calibers and platforms) a shot. If for some reason a person needs an SD piece, and isn't tuned into guns, I think a G17 is hard to beat (cheap ammo; moderate recoil, ease of use, and easy to sell if the shooter finds another platform/caliber better suited).

JMO.

-Bill
Since you asked,

The James Bond references sprang from the original post's mention of James Bond's pistol/caliber choices. How Chuck Norris gets into the picture, I don't know. He did not achieve his real fame with any firearm.

Chuck Norris is a martial arts champion and an actor who also supports several philanthropic endeavors (Veterans, Make-a-Wish, etc as well as the martial arts sports and the Republican Party)

James Bond is a fictional character loosely based on real British soldiers, commandos, undercover operatives and spys who served, fought, lived and died during and after World War II.

Sure, Mr. Norris would very likely beat James Bond, Mr. Fleming or almost any of his associates in a fair fight following the rules of sport fighting. It is doubtful Norris would ever get the chance at a fair fight. Bond and his ilk were soldiers and warriors. Norris, et al, as good as they are, are sportsmen (and I am not ignoring Norris' service in the USAF's military police).

Good men, all, but apples and oranges in the comparison game.

I agree with your thoughts on the 22 Rimfire; it puts you out there practicing, and that is never bad. It also allows you to rub elbows with other shooters and get their views and be exposed to their guns.

However, 9mm or 9x18 Makarov is probably the next-most inexpensive store-bought ammunition and fairly useful and effective as a self-defense round.

Lost Sheep
 
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