Nine rounds of .380 vs five rounds of .38

[MCgunner]

I'm a revolver lover so I voted .38. I don't like .380 ballistically much, anyway. I have a 12 round pocket .380 I never carry. It shoots okay, don't like the trigger, but it's just not what I'd rather be totin'. If I have to put my revolver in the safe for more firepower, I'll load up my Kel Tec P11, 11 rounds of +P 9x19.

 

[BSA1]

AK103K,

The O.P. is asking about the Bersa .380 vs. 5 shot J-Frame revolver.

You can bring your Glock out to play on another thread. ;-)

 

[AK103K]

Hey, I addressed that in my first post. I picked the .380 over the revolver. I just happened to pick the 26 over both of them.

I do have two Glock 42's can I play with them here?

Id take them over my 642's, without hesitation. But again, I already solved that conundrum.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

At least they hit him.

 

[Gun Master]

.380 vs .38 Sp.

OK guys. Some lean toward .380, and some toward .38 Special, but hey, I like 'em all. We each have our own preference (semi/revolver), but I think we "ALL LIKE GUNS" !!! Right ??

Could we all "TRY" to stick to the OP?

Please, since we don't want this thread to close, correct ?

Thanks.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Thanks guys, I'm learning a lot.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Actually, they arent all that different. I have a couple of each. I rarely carry the 642's anymore. I have a 26 on me pretty much daily, and carry it in the same spot I carried the J frame (Smart Carry, and occasionally ankle).

Smart Carry? Oh, you mean like Hot Jocks and Thunder Wear? I've got 'em both. I carry the Centennial 3 o'clock appendix IWB, and while I can carry my 26 there it's not at all comfortable when driving or sitting down a lot (which at my job they allow me to pack heat as a contract programmer.)

Oh, and the OLD S&W 19s had forcing cone problems if you fired a lot of 125s. New ones don't (even the J .357s work fine.)

And I have a 'few' myself'.

And that's just some of my revolvers (you don't see the N frames nor Colts there), I haven't photo'ed my semi-autos much (5 Glocks, Sigs, 1911s (Kimbers and Colts), Brownings, Rugers, Makarovs, etc..) And you don't even see any of my blued guns nor collector guns.

Winter I use my Glock 26 cause I can wear it behind the hip, but summer, T-shirt and jeans, won't work, even if I used my Hot Jocks.

I find it important to be able to walk, sit down, drive, run, etc.. and still be comfortable all day, cause I do wear it all day.

Deaf

 

[Inebriated]

I'd take the Bersa...

Run a few drills with both, carry what you're best with. Chances are, it won't be the snub.

 

[SDGlock23]

I'd prefer the ballistics of the 38 Special over the 380 ACP but platform wise the 380 will have the advantage of being smaller (LCP, CW380, etc), holding more ammo and reloading much, much faster which is an invaluable attribute should you need to reload.

Encounters happen FAST and if you need to reload a snub nose it may be too late. Keep in mind too that it's far easier to miss than most think, in many reports of shootings it's not uncommon to have a very poor hit ratio so if you miss 2 shots out of 5 then a snubbie only leaves you three and a painfully slow to reload as well...not good IMHO.

There's a Youtube channel called active self protection, it's got videos of real life encounters and everyone should watch them, a lot can be learned from them.

 

[Eb1]

Use at your own risk.
You could use the Underwood XTP +P in .380, or the bonded Gold Dot +P in .380 ACP in Underwood. I get 1204 fps from my Bersa Thunder Combat model in .380 ACP with the Chrony @ 12 ft from the muzzle.
If your gun will shoot them reliably. They are +P and do have more pop then the store bought .380 ACP.
Use at your own risk.

 

[Gun Master]

.380 vs .38 Special

I'd take the Bersa...

Run a few drills with both, carry what you're best with. Chances are, it won't be the snub.

Like Bersa. Have one. But, since I usually pocket carry, it's a little too big.
That said, for CC I think I'll stick with the .38 Special J frame, for now.
Maybe that's one of the reasons it's called " Special " .

 

[Deaf Smith]

There's a Youtube channel called active self protection, it's got videos of real life encounters and everyone should watch them, a lot can be learned from them.

They are quite interesting.

Deaf

 

[LongbowShooter]

I have both guns mentioned in the original post. Find myself with the revolver much more often, usually pocket carry. If I go waistband I will usually take one of the plastic 9's.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Encounters happen FAST and if you need to reload



.

Snip

You won't.


In all of recorded ccw history guess how many reloads have been documented in SD cases?

ONE and that guy was in multiple encounters due to his trade as a jewelry dealer.

That reload is for after the fact. Statistics prove You will live or die with what ammo is in your gun and odds are that if you miss with the first five you will not miraculously start shootin better with the last two in a 380

 

[R.W.Dale]

My opinion is the functional reliability of a revolver to overcome a less than ideal grip and the high likelihood of being tangled in clothing or in direct contact with your adversary trumps the THEORETICAL advantage of capacity and speed to reload.

The Zimmerman Martin encounter is a prime example of this. His pf9 got off one shot before it had a fte because of the close quarters

 

[SDGlock23]

Snip

You won't.


In all of recorded ccw history guess how many reloads have been documented in SD cases?

ONE and that guy was in multiple encounters due to his trade as a jewelry dealer.

That reload is for after the fact. Statistics prove You will live or die with what ammo is in your gun and odds are that if you miss with the first five you will not miraculously start shootin better with the last two in a 380

I highly doubt that only once, ever, was a reload needed in a CCW encounter. Capacity isn't great from either a 5 shot snubbie or a 7 shot 380 but never is less better. One might have to face multiple attackers and one or two hits each might not be enough, so a quick reload could be a life saver.

I get that statistically only a few rounds are fired on average, but we shouldn't carry to meet minimal statistical requirements banking on not having to reload, we should carry enough to have a fighting chance in the worst case scenario. A snubbie isn't the tool for such a job.

Snip

You won't.


In all of recorded ccw history guess how many reloads have been documented in SD cases?

ONE and that guy was in multiple encounters due to his trade as a jewelry dealer.

That reload is for after the fact. Statistics prove You will live or die with what ammo is in your gun and odds are that if you miss with the first five you will not miraculously start shootin better with the last two in a 380

 

[Panzerschwein]

My Bersa takes 8 round mags, one in the pipe equals 9.

 

[AK103K]

The simplest way to sort this, is to take both to the range, and practice as realistically as you can with them, and compare the results.

By realistically, I dont mean slow fire bullseye shooting, I mean drawing from how you carry the gun, and energetically engaging the targets (emphasis on "targets" too), in as many different ways as you can. This will give you the best idea as to whats going to work the best for you.

You may also find, it leads you away from the either/or above.

 

[BSA1]

I get that statistically only a few rounds are fired on average, but we shouldn't carry to meet minimal statistical requirements banking on not having to reload, we should carry enough to have a fighting chance in the worst case scenario. A snubbie isn't the tool for such a job.

If you are serious about preparing for a worst case scenario then neither the Bersa .380 or J-Frame 38 will meet your needs and is outside the topic of this thread.

What I advocate is a honest assessment of the type and likelihood of threats that you face based on where you live, your occupation, where you work, where you travel, your leisure activities, types of crimes in your area, frequency of the crimes, number of people involved, your training in self-defense, your training with the firearm you are carrying. ammunition choices, yada, yada, yada.

The heart of the O.P.'s question is whether four rounds of a weaker cartridge is an advantage over 5 rounds of a more powerful cartridge in a similar size small handguns.

The survey has shown a basically even split with the .380 currently slightly ahead. What this suggests to me is many of the respondents believe the person behind the trigger is the biggest factor in winning a gunfight. This supports AK103K comment "The simplest way to sort this, is to take both to the range, and practice as realistically as you can with them, and compare the results."

 

[Deaf Smith]

The simplest way to sort this, is to take both to the range, and practice as realistically as you can with them, and compare the results.

By realistically, I dont mean slow fire bullseye shooting, I mean drawing from how you carry the gun, and energetically engaging the targets (emphasis on "targets" too), in as many different ways as you can. This will give you the best idea as to whats going to work the best for you.

You may also find, it leads you away from the either/or above.

It's more than just the range AK. True, if you shoot poorly, even after several range sessions, one needs to look for another weapon platform, but if one shoots reasonably well with it, then other factors come into play. Such as reliability, power, firepower, simplicity, capability of being used by others (such as ones family), ease of concealment, use under adverse circumstances (pressing muzzle into adversary, inside pocket, retention position, limp twisted, etc.)

In the majority of factors mentioned the J framed revolver, like the Centinnial, excels.
Deaf

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by R.W.Dale:

In all of recorded ccw history guess how many reloads have been documented in SD cases?

No one knows.

ONE and that guy was in multiple encounters due to his trade as a jewelry dealer.

That's the one that you happen to know about.

That reload is for after the fact. Statistics prove You will live or die with what ammo is in your gun....

I do not know about statistics, but common sense, which can be tested in FoF exercises and simulation, does very strongly suggest that capacity is the most important factor. Of course, second guns are occasionally brought into play.

....and odds are that if you miss with the first five you will not miraculously start shootin better with the last two in a 380.

"Start shooting better"? Not the way it works. The defender is shooting at a fast moving three dimensional target. Within that big target are small critical body parts, also moving, that he defender cannot see, much less target. Which ones are hit and which ones are missed is a matter of chance. More shots raise the odds.

 

[benEzra]

I think the Bersa Thunder is too large for a 380 Auto.

It's too large for pocket carry, but that size and sight radius also make it easier to shoot well than (say) an LCP. A Bersa .380 was my first handgun and my first CCW, and I was always suprised how accurate it was. Some of that may be due to the PPK-style fixed barrel.

As far as "5 for sure" vs. a 9-round semiauto, I've shot revolvers that failed to fire a round due to years of crud in the mechanism. There's also the fact that a 5-shot revolver will fail to fire on the 6th and subsequent shots 100% of the time, whereas a 9-shot semiauto with quality ammunition will keep shooting until the 9th shot 99.99%+ of the time. Once you reach that point, it is much faster to reload a semiauto pistol than a revolver, even if you are Jerry Miculek.

I shot my Bersa a lot, until I eventually replaced it with a S&W 3913LS, and it never failed with my chosen carry load (Federal JHP) or with American made FMJ. I believe it suffered two failures to feed in the entire time I owned it, both with an odd European-made load using a very fat (almost hemispherical ogive) bullet that hung up on the chamber lip going in. I steered clear of that load in the future and never had any more failures of any kind.

 

[AK103K]

Such as reliability, power, firepower, simplicity, capability of being used by others (such as ones family), ease of concealment, use under adverse circumstances (pressing muzzle into adversary, inside pocket, retention position, limp twisted, etc.)

Most of that gets worked out in realistic practice.

In the majority of factors mentioned the J framed revolver, like the Centinnial, excels.

I shoot 642's, with "carry" power ammo, a couple of times a month. About the only thing they "might" excel at, is the contact firing, and inside the pocket thing, both of which I think tend to be over blown by the revolver fans. Most of what Ive found otherwise, has been the small revolvers are not the winner when it comes to "overall".

The contact issue "can" be an issue for the autos, but not always. Many autos will still fire, even with muzzle contact. If you were to run into it, a slight pull back on the gun instantly eliminates it. Not to mention, there are techniques to deal with it, although Im not a fan, as they normally render the gun a single shot.

The pocket thing also is often touted, but in reality, it too isnt really a sure thing, either way. Ive tried it with both revolvers and autos, and both have fired, and both have not. Hammerless revolvers do have an edge there, but the autos I tried it with, fired repeatedly more than they didnt.

How many people do you know, that actually practice shooting that way anyway? Ive only done it a couple of times in over 50 years. Id be will to bet, most have never done it.

The other big issue I have with the pocket thing is, if I see trouble coming, I dont to get caught with a hand stuffed in my pocket. If I somehow dont see it coming, Im not going to waste any time and try and get my hand in there anyway.

 

[danez71]

Which is more important.... the FIRST FEW SHOTS or the seventh.. eight.. ninth?

Your call.

Deaf

The one that stops the bad guy IS the most important shot whether it's the 1st, 6th, or 12th.

That mind set is aching of limiting firearms to "a few shots" since those are the "important ones".

 

[clutch]

I really don't expect to ever need my sidearm while out in public as I stay away from places where crime is a problem.

I've carried a .380 Bersa 95 and I've shot it a lot. It always worked, even with my handloads. It didn't really pocket carry all that great.

Then I heard how great the 642/442 is for pocket carry so I bought one of those. It is light, fits well in my pocket, I tend to carry it.

Now if you really think you are going to need your firearm, do you want to rely on just one? Seriously? Any gun can jam, have a high primer that causes a misfire, ect.

If I really thought I might need my firearm and had no choice about even being where I might need it, I'd probably carry my S&W Compact in .40 S&W in a IWB holster with the snub in a pocket or ankle holster in case things just went totally wrong.