what is the best, most reliable modern carbine?

HK 94? I'm not to familiar with too many pistol caliber carbines, but I know the MP5 is probably the best submachine gun ever made. A guy had one at the range today and was shooting four inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights.

Doesn't sound as if that one would be worth keeping, wrapped around a tree is a second option.

I kind of like my Hi-Point...............

My keltec sub-2000 9 mm takes glock mags and has never let me down

Assuming that we aren't talking about firearms that fall into the subgun category, 9mm ARs run well, but as kind of expensive.

I also know quite a few guys that have Berettas in various calibers and they like them just fine, once you do something about the stock trigger. If I went with a Beretta, I'd probably opt for a 9mm, just for the mag capacity.

EDIT: For some reason, I just assumed that we were talking about some flavor of semi auto. If you're open to lever guns, there are lots to choose from. These days, when I'm going hiking around and want something with me just in case, I've been grabbing my .357 lever action carbine. It's light, trim and really easy to carry around. It also makes a nice companion to the few revolvers that I have.

IMI Uzi in 9mm or .45ACP. May not be the most friendly to hold or carry, but they sure run.
But I would rather take a good lever action carbine into the woods; will generate a lot less negative attention.

How about a levergun in .45 colt, 44 mag, or .357 mag. Not a heck of a lot to go wrong with a good levergun, certainly less prone to stoppages that semi autos. Then again, there are some pump guns that are also chambered for handgun calibers.

Yeah, your question is a little vague....like asking "what's the best, most reliable modern compact car?"

There's so many different kinds of carbine platforms available....from the AR15 family of carbines in several calibers, to the AK family, then pistol-calibers of many flavors and makes, and all the leverguns....I have a wide variety of carbines, all short, light and compact, but very different from each other. What exactly do you want to use it for? Home defense? Plinking? Target shooting? Competition? Hunting? Hiking/fishing backup? All of the above?

Personally, I really love my M1 carbines. I'd suggest you get yours tuned up and running good, they're dandy little rifles that will fill all the above roles quite well. Well, maybe not hunting so much, although they will do the job. Lotta men and deer have been taken with them. A really good cleaning and proper greasing may do wonders for it. Might need a few parts here and there, new springs are a good thing too.

Ive never had a problem with the UMP 40. Shot countless rounds through it.

The Beretta CX4 carbine is very, very fun, but I'm not sure if we have information about how they behave after high round counts vis-a-vis long term parts durability, etc.

Well you listed pistol caliber in your post so I wont say a vz 58 . MP 5 types are awesome, as are various other full automatics, but for the average Joe you want a reliable semi-auto, and not one with a ton of barrel sticking out to ruin it. (like the uzi semi I had, too many stupid gun laws) My 1st choice is the Ruger pc9 carbine. It is a wonderful little gun that handles just like a m-1 carbine or a 10-22. I know that they don't produce them anymore, and its a shame, considering how well it handles, however there are still many of them to be had in the used auctions. it also came in .40 cal if you have a pistol in that caliber already. the p-series pistol mags fit it so tons of mags are available. Kel-Tec has a little folding carbine that takes several different pistol mags, I've never shot one so I cant comment how reliable it is. Also the Hi-point has quite a following, but I had several jams with this gun and accuracy wasn't near what I got from the Ruger (may have been mag problems?) so I traded it off. All this being said, You could get a new spring set for your m-1, the folding paratrooper stock is available again, put on an optic mount and a good reflex scope, and be just as well off as anyone. The m-1 carbine is a sweet little shooter.

I'd go out on a limb and say SKS or Mini-14. The Mini is only somewhat less handy than the M1 Carbine and the SKS (as long as you avoid Yugo's) is only somewhat less handy than the Mini. Heck, get an SKS that's been ground and they are really handy with decent oomph.

Those are all old-tech, with the SKS less than a decade newer than the M1 Carbine admittedly.

But those do not fit within the guise of your question (but 7.62x39 is cheaper to shoot than .357 with a whole lot more power), so I would consider a Marlin 1884C in .357. It isn't semi-auto, but it is designed to handle the rimmed .357 round, does so just fine, and with .357 nobody makes spitzer bullets for it so just about anything you buy will be safe to fire in it. Lever guns can have problems, but the receiver will be strong enough and will do fine with a .357. It won't kick that bad and follow up shots will be quick. It will also be more substantial than a 9mm carbine (though more expensive to fire) for woods work.

Ruger makes a good 9mm carbine, and while my fingers threaten to fall off as I type this, so does Hi Point. Indeed, cheap pistol carbines of many flavors are available from Hi Point and they are decent, ugly, but decent.

I have Ruger PC9 and it's one of my favorite firearms. It's accurate and a ton of fun to shoot. Sort of like a grown up 10/22.

what is the best, most relaible modern carbine?

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You already know the answer to that. (M-4 style AR) You then quailfy that question with a pistol caliber. Either will be 16 or 18 inches, and I don't see the advantage in a pistol caliber AT ALL.

Both a pistol and carbine take different ammunition. Yes, you can use the same ammo in both your pistol or carbine, but then you have either an under powered rifle or an over powered pistol. Neither of those are a good thing, so you end up with a underpowered rifle that may or may not do the job for you.

If you must have a pistol caliber carbine then the 44 Mag would be the best alternitive, assuming you have a 44 mag pistol. If you are just plinking and occasionaly hunting you could use a 357 mag but will use different ammo for each when hunting.

As to make and model, I think Ruger makes the best pistol. Model will be your choice since style will be up to you. (Single Action or GP-100) And Marlin would be my choice for the Carbine. (Model 1894 or 1894CB)

I still think you need to rethink this Carbine in a Pistol caliber thing. My dad said use the right tool for the right job. But then we don't know what job you want to do with it.

Jim

jim243 said:

If you are just plinking and occasionaly hunting you could use a 357 mag but will use different ammo for each when hunting.

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Not sure why you say that. The 158gn loads that you would want in the revolver really come to life in the carbine. The .357 uses a lot of powder for its bore and it is known for its massive muzzle blast from a handgun because the pressure is still very high when the bullet leaves the bore. The rifle better makes use of that long pressure curve and returns significant increases in velocity. The .44 behaves similarly and similarly likes the same loads between the carbine and revolver. Personally I like that the .357 revolver is (or at least can be) much more compact and handy.

Ok, let's see,
Pistol caliber carbine that won't fail and accurate.
1 carbine is a length, shorter than a rifle, not a type of action
2 accuracy
3 usage

1 Ruger makes a .357 mag in bolt action that has an 18 1/2" barrel and weighs less than 6 lbs
2 accuracy, mount a scope if really concerned about this mabey 4x fixed
3 usage, will do anything from plinking to knocking over a hog at 75 yds to white tail at 100, I would recomend buffalo bore for hunting use or reloads

I prefer my Win Trapper, 16" barrel, but I can tell you from experience the M77 compact in .357 is one very sweet little alternative, and besides all the people I know with a Win Trapper are hanging onto them.

blindhari

just a thought-Trailboss reloads with 125gr molylube lead are quiet, light recoil and devastating out to 100yds

Not sure why you say that.

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Because for hunting as a reloader I would use a 180 grain Nos Partion out of the rifle at 40,900 cups with rifle powder 1,325 fps, instead of a 158 grain bullet at 16,200 cups with pistol powder 1,059 fps.
Right tool for the right job.

Jim

JShirley said:

Those are actually two different statements, and they're both untrue.
1. There are several things that can go wrong with a levergun, stemming from an inherently weaker action than most bolt-actions, and even than many semi-autos, typical use of rimmed cartridges, and operator error.

2. See the last two issues. There are extremely few autoloaders that fire revolver cartridges. It's also much easier for an operator to induce a stoppage during a stressful situation.

Now that I've told you why I believe your statements are not based in fact, I'd love to hear any actual evidence you have.

John

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Sorry, never bothered to collect data. But, I have been shooting for over 50 years and the statement I made is based on personal experience. Your's may be different, and you're more than welcome to your opinion, as am I.

I cant believe nobody has mentioned a Marlin Camp 9 yet.

I don't have one and they are a little hard to find, but I have heard nothing but good things about them.

Since you've got an M1 carbine I'm going to assume that you want a semi auto.

Mention of some great options has already been made. Out of the ones mentioned I've personally shot the Beretta Storm, HK94, Keltec Sub2000 and a JR carbine.

Out of these four guns the Beretta and HK are very much the best if you want a smooth operating firearm to use as a tool for defense or in action shooting competitions.

On the other hand the simple and clunky direct blowback bolts in the Keltec and JR make them more "kicky" and fun to shoot if you're just plinking for fun.

I say that because the Beretta and HK are SOOOO smooth that they almost feel like I'm shooting a .22. Now that's great if you want to put a lot of lead on target in a tight group very quickly. But they are SO good at this that they actually become boring for me since I don't shoot stuff of this sort in my matches. The Keltec and JR are just as accurate but the greater felt recoil from the bolt cycling back and forth makes it harder to get accurate fire at as high a fire rate as with the Beretta and HK.

But so much of which way you should go is dependent on how you want to shoot that it's impossible to suggest anything more than these general comments.

I like the L.A. carbines in .357 mag. as they use .38SPLs & hold a good capacity of rounds. They can be had at good prices at the pawn shop if you shop around & they are lite & handle nice. I have not shot the Kel-Tec, but did hold it &watched it being shot. It felt ok & the shooter put 3-mags thru it w/ no problems . Nice gun, I like KEL-TEC products! Just my 2¢.

1. There are several things that can go wrong with a levergun, stemming from an inherently weaker action than most bolt-actions, and even than many semi-autos, typical use of rimmed cartridges, and operator error.

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If we're discussing pistol cartridge carbines, then is strength really an issue? I don't see where anyone mentioned the 1860, 1866 or 1873 designs so everything that is left, is plenty strong for the intended purpose. Besides, do leverguns self destruct every other day? No.

The rim is a non-issue.

Are we blaming the gun for operator-induced failures now???

Sorry, never bothered to collect data. But, I have been shooting for over 50 years and the statement I made is based on personal experience. Yours may be different, and you're more than welcome to your opinion, as am I.

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Not to mention that the damn things have been in constant use for 150yrs.