Well, Obama just laid it out

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howlnmad said:
But nothing about mental health?

I wish they would dig their heads out of the sand and stop blaming the tool for the users actions.
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The only thing he said about mental health during this conference was, "We need to make access to mental health care at least as accessible as guns."

Which is great, but yeah... that sure wasn't the foundation of his little speech.
 
This thread has my head spinning.

Thanks to those of you who try to keep it grounded in law and reason.

It wasn't the speech many of us feared. He did mention better mental healthcare access I believe...so that's good. Aside from that...not anything new really. He's wanted this for years. Now they're going to try and get it through Congress.

I'm for improved access to mental healthcare (quality...not just wrecking minds w drugs). I am also for improved school security. Didn't see that mentioned.

As far as gun laws...nothing wild or unexpected here. Is it an incremental approach to destroying the 2nd amendment? Perhaps. But lets confront what was laid out and not go off the deep end. Just serves to marginalize and frustrate our side.

Now go buy magazines.
 
Well, this is EXACTLY what was expected -- and I see it as a net positive thing.

They're proposing pretty much EXACTLY what they did 18 years ago in 1994. It was such a well-known flop -- didn't even stop Columbine -- that the whole law was allowed to "sunset" (die) at the 10 year mark.

Oh, plus the gun show/private sale thing which no one could even pretend had any relevance at all to the recent tragedy -- so that's basically a non sequitur.

So that makes our job a whole lot easier. Nothing really new to do or say -- just "That old thing, again? Why? It didn't work before and we ditched it."

Really, it seems like between this ho-hum announcement and the selection of Biden to head it, they're clearly going for the "make some noise, look concerned, let it die" route.
 
Regarding private sales. I will sell to people I know or ask to see a concealed weapons permit. I do my part to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

I'm sure they may tick off some people here. But I never want to buy a hot gun and I don't ever want to sell one to a felon either. Not saying the law should change but its something I do to avoid the whole mess. Which would in turn result in less laws if we were more diligent.
 
Put bluntly, they want to parade around in the future elections with murdered children. That gets people emotional and gets them votes. If actual gun control is passed, then the whole focus shifts to whether it's working (we know it won't) and they can't get traction from the dead kids anymore. Haven't you noticed the almost GLEEFUL tone in the voices of the anti-gun advocates and the MSM lately? That all ends once we're talking about flash suppressors instead of murdered kids. In fact most of them will get openly hostile if you start actually discussing the actual laws they're proposing.

Mark my words, if the GOP calls their bluff and agrees to some podunk measure they'll be scrambling to get out of it.
 
How many here voted for BHO?
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Yep and how many said it can't/won't happen? Many are still quite satisfied he was re-elected....It was the will of the people if you believe the votes were counted and the results were correct. Winners and losers etc etc. spilled milk deal the hand we are delt.

So as others have said it might be advisable for those who care to email or write their elected reps and let them know how you feel in a respectful way.

It hasn't happened yet and hopefully thoughtful voices of reason will prevail. I am happy the house may/should block any inane new bills.
 
the problem you're gonna find is the GOP is putting voters priorities at odds. they've been so anti-labor as of late it's an easy decision to choose between a pistol grip and your pension and health care.

don't kill the messanger but if it's between my benefits and magazines (that i already have) guess what...

if the GOP put out their own proposals, ones that address the mental health and law enforcement aspects of gun violence they'll show the country they aren't reactionary like the president is being right now.
 
"It's ok to be a liberal and a 2a supporter, so I voted for Obama."

For those of you who said that, think long and hard about what you've contributed to. Personally I don't see this gun control thing as a bluff. We've really bit off a hard piece to chew. Instead of having a leader to make rational and educated solutions, this is what we get. It's so far out of control that I think we have really done ourselves in.
 
They will go for a ban on all-semi auto rifles
All mag over 10 rounds for hand guns
This country was finished when Obama was re-elected
When he gets done we will look like Detriot
It's your new America----get used to it
You can tell---I really love the guy
 
mboylan said:
Nope. Title II arms are very strictly defined by law.

Some shotguns got reclassified because the bore is over. 50. Unfortunately, 32 guage shotguns and up have bore diameters above .50 and some can fall under non-sporting purposes.
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I yield to the legal beagles for what ultimately can or can't be done. I hope you're right and they can't redefine the "dangerous devices" section to include the things they want banned.

How is that any different from the attempt to redefine the definition of a switchblade knife?
What ultimately prevented it from happening is legislation included in another bill that solidified that definition of a switchblade... ironically allowing Obama to say that he signed into law provisions that protected knife rights. You have to acknowledge the malevolent genius of this guy.
 
slidemuzik said:
I think the EO could be used to order the proper agency(BATF?) to change the " dangerous devices" provision of the Gun act of '34 (that is already law) to include what they want banned...
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No. Something like that can not be done by Executive Order.

  • A President can't "just do it through an Executive Order." An Executive Order must be pursuant to an underlying statute or regulation and be consistent with the underlying statute or regulation, and an Executive Order must be constitutional. Executive Orders are subject to challenge in court.

  • An Executive Order is not law.

  • An Executive Order is a statement of policy and instruction from the President, as the senior manager of the Executive Branch, to the organizational units that report to him. The scope, extent and application of an Executive Order is limited by the the underlying statute to which it refers. The Executive Order can not change the statute.
 
Let's reflect on the probability that the sorts of things here being proposed have a lot of public support -- support from our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc., upon whom the politicians depend to be elected and re-elected. When enough of our neighbors, enough of the people in our communities, enough of the people in our towns, enough of the people we work with, enough of the people we see at the mall, etc., don't like guns, are afraid, and don't trust the rest of us with them, politicians who take anti-gun stands can get elected and re-elected (and bureaucrats who take anti-gun stands can keep their jobs).

So let's remember that in this struggle part of our challenge is to present gun owners and gun ownership in a positive light to our neighbors, the people in our communities,the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc.
 
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Frank nailed it. It wouldn't matter who was President at this point. The public outcry and reaction to this event is unprecedented. This goes far beyond any politicians and their machinations. The events of the next few weeks and months will determine whether it stays that way.
 
slidemuzik said:
I yield to the legal beagles for what ultimately can or can't be done. I hope you're right and they can't redefine the "dangerous devices" section to include the things they want banned.
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If they're actually rewriting the law, and they can actually get it passed, they can rewrite it to include broken beer bottles.

There is the logistics of actually getting it out of committee, and then actually getting it passed. Broken beer bottles is a guaranteed failure. How aggressive they can be is up in the air. Obviously their strategy is going to be go for broke, then back down until you get something that will pass.

Or, maybe as some have suggested, go for broke and blame the Republicans when it fails, but take the credit for trying.
 
Jorg said:
...The public outcry and reaction to this event is unprecedented. This goes far beyond any politicians and their machinations...
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Let's also remember that we got saddled with the Gun Control Act of 1968 in large part because a few years prior three wildly popular public figures where assassinated by criminals with guns.
 
The Real Agenda

I think Obama intends to change the 2nd Ammendment any which way he and Buffet and Bloomburg can.
So what is the real Agenda? Well lets look at what is happening and what can happen.
Our Government is printing and spending money it doesn't have makeing them in a sense thieves with a license to steal.
We are facing a financial cliff once again.
There is no way the National Debt can be paid off without a new currency and total destruction of the U.S. Dollar.
The big bail out was opposed by the majority of our citizens but it was passed anyway.
For most practical matters we are already a Socialist Country.
And in the last week, people are buying guns, clips, reloading gear and in a sense arming themselves to the teeth.

Bottom line, we must be vigilant, keep informed on what is happening and preparted to have the basics of life to surviv:banghead:e the future, no matter what it brings.
 
Let's reflect on the probability that the sorts of things here being proposed have a lot of public support -- support from our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc., upon whom the politicians depend to be elected and re-elected. When enough of our neighbors, enough of the people in our communities, enough of the people in our towns, enough of the people we work with, enough of the people we see at the mall, etc., don't like guns, are afraid, and don't trust the rest of us with them, politicians who take anti-gun stands can get elected and re-elected (and bureaucrats who take anti-gun stands can keep their jobs).
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To take that a step further, we the gun owners need to contact our representatives and politely, calmly, and logically refute the mainstream media and the knee jerk reation of a public that blindly believes the MSM. The more of us that the reps hear from, the more they can see that public opinion is not unified in its calls for more gun control. The loud left is making its case, we need to make ours as well...but without all the name calling and fearmongering that the liberals rely on.
 
Frank nailed it. It wouldn't matter who was President at this point. The public outcry and reaction to this event is unprecedented. This goes far beyond any politicians and their machinations. The events of the next few weeks and months will determine whether it stays that way.
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Exactly. The only real opponent Obama had this election was Romney, and Romney signed an AWB in his state. We are going through something big.
 
Sky said:
Yep and how many said it can't/won't happen? Many are still quite satisfied he was re-elected....It was the will of the people if you believe the votes were counted and the results were correct. Winners and losers etc etc. spilled milk deal the hand we are delt.

So as others have said it might be advisable for those who care to email or write their elected reps and let them know how you feel in a respectful way.

It hasn't happened yet and hopefully thoughtful voices of reason will prevail. I am happy the house may/should block any inane new bills.
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Nothing has happened. Right now it is all noise and smoke. The Democrats still remember how baldly the AWB hurt them. It's all noise from the same loudmouths that have always been fervently anti-gun.

When and if there is something concrete, we can start work.
 
Bet this ends up more like the current California laws - 10 round mags, bullet buttons, transfer dealers at gun shows. While it sucks, gun sales are still brisk here.

None of this would have made a difference in these shootings - but the sheeple want the illusion of action. Best thing we can do is introduce as many people as possible to firearms in a positive manner.

Every gun club and shooting range in the country should be sponsoring events that promote guns in a positive way - free instruction days for newbies, competitions that are fundraisers for community needs, etc.

Politicians play to the fears of the people. Remove the fear, the politicians lose the power - and quickly move on.
 
redneck2 said:
I really thought he'd sign an executive order to implement all these things. Who's gonna fight it? Very few in congress are gonna openly be pro gun right now
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He can't. An EO would probably cover something like stricter background checks and requiring feeds from more databases.

Please please learn more about our system of government if you are going to be politically active.
 
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